View Poll Results: Could God be the Creator of Evil?

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  • Yes

    35 49.30%
  • No

    30 42.25%
  • Not sure

    6 8.45%
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Thread: Did God create evil?

  1. #151
    Caddy smells like trees caddy_caddy's Avatar
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    What about floods , earthquakes, and the like . Isn't that evil created by God ?This has nothing to do with free will , or human choice.
    Last edited by caddy_caddy; 08-10-2010 at 11:22 AM.
    Madness is a tremendous energy of truth--Ibrahim Alzenedy
    I don't know myself;you don't know yourself .
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  2. #152
    Registered User Leland Gaunt's Avatar
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    Lol, thanks Leland
    Well, to be honest, my "waiting for a thank you" comment was directed at blaze.

    But, for what its worth, your welcome.

    The concept of free will, or at least that it exists, is not exclusive to “Biblical society”, but is part of other religions as well. It’s not just a religious concept, but scientific and ethical as well.
    Quite right.
    I see what you are saying. I don’t think God created evil per se, as evil really isn’t a thing, but a concept and I also think it existed, as an concept, before the creation of the universe. Evil is the absence of good. However, God allows evil, in order for free will to exist. So obviously he created us with the potential to be evil, His idea being that we have to choose... I would therefore not say he created evil, but that really depends on one’s definition of create, I guess. That is also why I said that evil was a choice made by man, etc., so I then also don’t believe that God is responsible for evil, because man can still choose to be good, i.e. man is responsible for his actions none the less. Does that make sense? I always know what I mean, but I’m not always sure I’m able to express it properly ...maybe I should have phrased it like this to begin with, lol.
    Well, a concept requires the existence of someone/thing, to come up with it. It is just an abstract idea, so who had the idea of evil? The existence of concepts, before the universe, means to me that God was doing some thinking beforehand. Sorry, if I'm not making sense.
    Nothing, nothing is certain, except the insignificance of everything I can comprehend and the grandeur of something incomprehensible but most important" -Andrei Bolkonsky
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  3. #153
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    God created paradise and man and lucifer violated paradise. God created heaven and earth, angels and man, then had to create the hell to contain those angels who thought of themselves like unto God. Satan used that same argument and convinced God's most precious creation to violate His statutes and so man was doom to an earthly existance until his death. Finally, God gave us free will and we (MAN) freely and willfully choose to observe his commandments or not too.

  4. #154
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caddy_caddy View Post
    What about floods , earthquakes, and the like . Isn't that evil created by God ?This has nothing to do with free will , or human choice.
    God created a world that functions in a certain way - the things you listed are natural occurences; they are not "evil" created by God, they are simply part of living in a world constructed like this one - a world that has been contaminated by evil.

    Adam and Eve's use of their free will resulted in all of creation being negatively affected by evil; as such, these catastrophic occurences are the result of original sin - not active, deliberate actions by God (per se).
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

  5. #155
    Caddy smells like trees caddy_caddy's Avatar
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    God created a world that functions in a certain way
    the things you listed are natural occurences;
    And natural occurences function in an evil way according to His own will .

    they are not "evil" created by God, they are simply part of living in a world constructed like this one - a world that has been contaminated by evil.
    No , God states clearly that He uses the natural occurances as a force of destruction and ruin .And destruction and ruin is evil. I can't conceive what happened in Pakistan as a result of the orginal sin . When I see what happened , I think that God created evil and He is capable of evil , too much evil .


    not active, deliberate actions by God (per se).
    So deliberate actions of whom , if not He ?
    Madness is a tremendous energy of truth--Ibrahim Alzenedy
    I don't know myself;you don't know yourself .
    I don't know you ; you don't know me .
    Don't be stupid and pretend the opposite
    --Ibrahim Alzenedy

  6. #156
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caddy_caddy View Post
    And natural occurences function in an evil way according to His own will

    No , God states clearly that He uses the natural occurances as a force of destruction and ruin .And destruction and ruin is evil. I can't conceive what happened in Pakistan as a result of the orginal sin . When I see what happened , I think that God created evil and He is capable of evil , too much evil ..

    I believe the thread question was "Did God create evil?" God created nothing evil; He created beings with moral free will who could chose evil if they so desired. Once sin entered the world, it contaminated all of God's creation.

    Would you mind refreshing my memory as to where God said that? Thanks.

    Natural disasters cannot be "evil" because they have no moral will. If God allows a natural disaster to occur, then He intends some good to come of it - whether we understand what that good might be is not His concern (just as your parents may not worry if you don't get why you need to finish your vegetables and not just gorge yourself on sweets).

    Whether you can "conveive" of something has no bearing on whether it is possible or not. If we are to speak of sin, and God, then we must also speak of a devil, who has placed himself in opposition to God and who - according to the Bible - seeks the destruction of God's creations. There are many explanations as to why destructive things happen in this world. God may choose to use a natural disaster to accomplish His will, but you cannot say with any certainty that ALL bad things that happen are His chosen will. There are plenty of things God allows that are not His express will. I do not believe it is His will that people get tortured, raped, molested or wasted away through terrible disease. Can He use those things to accomplish His will? Yes - but that's not the same as "willing" them to happen. If we accept the existence of God, we must also accept the existence of a spiritual dimension within which other forces besides God are active.

    You may think as you wish, but since our only knowledge of God comes through scripture, you'll have to show where the Bible backs you up; as the definitive description of the character of God, only IT can convict Him; our own opinions and "understanding" are merely our expressed preferences or speculations.



    Quote Originally Posted by caddy_caddy View Post
    So deliberate actions of whom , if not He ?
    The universe works at the will of God; part of how it works is encoded into His design; in the absence of sin, the world would not suffer the disasters it does (but I'm speculating - maybe it would - but either way, God would not purposefully put His creatures in harm's way unless there was a larger purpose to accomplish). What we have to remember is that our value system and God's are not identical. While we care about this life, God cares about our eternity - and, as such, He will make decisions that are focused on where we spend forever - not just in how we spend now.
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by caddy_caddy View Post
    What about floods , earthquakes, and the like . Isn't that evil created by God ?This has nothing to do with free will , or human choice.
    In law these are called 'acts of god'. Assuming the existence of one, there can be no other source for it as humanity has no control over the prevention natural disaster.

    ''Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? '' Amos 3:6

    ''Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?'' Lamentations 3:38

    It would be the high point of lunacy to blame humanity for the malefactions of an evil god. But then, many people would call Christianity just that.
    “... by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord ... I am now, as before, a Catholic and will always remain so.”

    --- Adolf Hitler

  8. #158
    “... by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord ... I am now, as before, a Catholic and will always remain so.”

    --- Adolf Hitler

  9. #159
    Proverbs 16:4
    The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

  10. #160
    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    good and evil arent absolute concepts. these are concepts that can only have any meaning when contrasted against a background.
    god, the universe, whatever you wanna call it, cannot have created good or evil, for he does not know what that is.
    why is it that people still have the infantile thought that the demiurg of this reality is a big PERSON, with personality traits and personal beliefs. for ****s sake, people.
    god does not have a will, god does not have an intention, god does not desire, god does not test, GOD IS NOT A PERSON, these are HUMAN TRAITS. god isnt a GIANT HUMAN.
    uuuuuuurgh.

  11. #161
    Genesis 1:26
    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Genesis 1:27
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Therefore, "weltanschauung" God created us in His image. So wouldn't you think that He knows and can experience every emotion and action we can? But seriously, I know even pointing this out to you, you will reject it even further. So why bother ?? :s

  12. #162
    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    therefore he also grabbed a pen and wrote the bible, hm? therefore he talks, hm? therefore he thinks and eats delicious french fries fries when he is hungry, hm? THEREFORE HE IS HUMAN, HM? therefore you are correct! i bet he grabbed your hand and made you write that, hm? THEREFORE HE GRABBED MY HAND AND MADE ME WRITE THIS TOO, therefore he might be ****ing with our heads, hm? therefore my phone is ringing, therefore god is calling, brb..

    *bows*
    anyways, as i always say, "i have a roll of lifesavers in my pocket and pineapple is next"

  13. #163
    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.



  14. #164
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    As Satan says, "Without evil there could be no good so it must be good to be evil sometimes."

  15. #165
    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    the point of view is the view of the point!

    still the universe extends to a place that never-ends which is maybe just inside a little jaaaar

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