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Thread: Freedom Doesn't Exist.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post
    I don't have to try drugs to know that they will destroy my body. One can reason through things in order to know....experimentation is not always necessary.
    My post refers to the OM mantra and the effect if brings by doing it every day. You really should try it.

    No need to panic, I believe YOU are not actually this physical body in which you find yourself, YOU are a much larger non-physical body in the form of an old soul.

    Back to freedom, most of us prefer to entangle ourselves with someone or something and so we are not truly free. Real freedom comes with the 'feeling' that there is more to us than 'just this'. Does it matter that we dont have proof? No, life is a perception not a reality. We make our own.
    Last edited by dizzydoll; 03-21-2010 at 11:25 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzydoll View Post
    No, life is a perception not a reality.
    And how is this so? Please do explain yourself.
    "They're just thoughts, so go ahead and speak."

    "We're just a collection of cells overrating
    themselves."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric.bell View Post
    And how is this so? Please do explain yourself.
    My post makes more than one point... to which do your refer?

  4. #64
    Registered User Darcy88's Avatar
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    There are no free wills. Only stong wills and weak wills.

  5. #65
    Ghost in the Machine Michael T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy88 View Post
    There are no free wills. Only stong wills and weak wills.
    What about 'Free Willy'?





  6. #66
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy88 View Post
    There are no free wills. Only stong wills and weak wills.
    ...and it's true just because you say it?

    What made you say that....since you have no free will?
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  7. #67
    Ghost in the Machine Michael T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post
    ...and it's true just because you say it?

    What made you say that....since you have no free will?
    But surely if you believe in Free Will, then you dismiss Determinism (cause and effect) and that means there is no justification for requiring a God for the creation of the universe. (Something from Nothing or First Cause) Thus Free Will = No God.

    Excellent ...you've disproved the main arguement for the existance of God! I always thought we athiests were on the right track!

  8. #68
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Free will is a sheer biblical product and I do not think it has any substance. Our course of living, thinking, initiatives all spring from circumstances and all we do is respond to the stimuli. Free will is somewhat likened to conscience and what we call conscience is a sheer mental product and what we call bad maybe good in another circumstance. Theft is bad for the one who loses it and the one who gets thinks it is good. When a man brings in more money through bribery feels jubilant for with this he brings happiness on his family and the one who loses the money becomes sad in fact.

    So what we say conscience is also rather a dubious notion. So is the idea of Free Will

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  9. #69
    Asa Nisi Masa mayneverhave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy88 View Post
    There are no free wills. Only stong wills and weak wills.
    As far as aphorisms go, this is meh. The second statement contradicts the first. The existence of either strong wills or weak wills would demonstrate that there are free wills.

  10. #70
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael T View Post
    But surely if you believe in Free Will, then you dismiss Determinism (cause and effect) and that means there is no justification for requiring a God for the creation of the universe. (Something from Nothing or First Cause) Thus Free Will = No God.

    Excellent ...you've disproved the main arguement for the existance of God! I always thought we athiests were on the right track!
    Your conclusion is absurd...at best! To entertain the concept of "Something from nothing" is to present oneself without any logic whatsoever. No discussion is even warranted.

    Why must we always haggle back and forth about God? I believe, you do not! Stop trying to disprove something that logically is impossible to disprove.
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  11. #71
    Ghost in the Machine Michael T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post

    Why must we always haggle back and forth about God?
    Sorry Bien ...just being mischievous!

  12. #72
    Something's Gone hoope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael T View Post
    But surely if you believe in Free Will, then you dismiss Determinism (cause and effect) and that means there is no justification for requiring a God for the creation of the universe. (Something from Nothing or First Cause) Thus Free Will = No God.

    Excellent ...you've disproved the main arguement for the existance of God! I always thought we athiests were on the right track!

    I disagree with FREE WILL = NO GOD
    Why don't you say that free will exists as well as God ..
    Why don't you look at it from the point that God is testing us.. He gave us the choice to choose what we want & which way to follow.. Or else then all of us would go to heaven .. People are being testing .. in earth . and so free will exists .
    Last edited by hoope; 03-23-2010 at 02:16 PM.
    "He is asleep. Though his mettle was sorely tried,
    He lived, and when he lost his angel, died.
    It happened calmly, on its own,
    The way the night comes when day is done."



  13. #73
    Icy hot snowdrop17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoope View Post
    I disagree with FREE WILL = NO GOD
    Why don't you say that free will exists as well as God ..
    Why don't you look at it from the point that God is testing us.. He gave us the choice to choose what we want & which way to follow.. Or else then all of us would go to heaven .. People are being testing .. in earth . and so free will exists .
    Right hoope.
    Why are people always trying to prove that free will and existance of God are opposite to each other. If you look it at the way hoope suggests it is quite logical. Otherwise there is no sense in being good to others and to practice restraint.
    Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;
    Our meddling intellect
    Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:
    We murder to dissect. -Wordsworth

  14. #74
    Ghost in the Machine Michael T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoope View Post
    I disagree with FREE WILL = NO GOD
    Why don't you say that free will exists as well as God ..
    Why don't you look at it from the point that God is testing us..

    More to the point - Wouldn't it be more logical for you to look at it from the point of view that there is nothing in this universe and nothing logical in human history that actually points to the existence of some form of Supreme Being and so therefore we should all start from the premise that there isn’t one? At least until one decides to manifest itself to us all and shoot me down in flames!

    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrop17 View Post
    Right hoope.
    Why are people always trying to prove that free will and existance of God are opposite to each other. If you look it at the way hoope suggests it is quite logical. Otherwise there is no sense in being good to others and to practice restraint.



    Oh... I'm sorry; I thought it was people trying to ram the existence of God down our throats with the First Cause argument! They can't have it both ways! Are you perhaps suggesting that without the knowledge of the existence of a God to keep you in order you see ''no sense in being good to others and practicing restraint''? If so - perhaps people should avoid you, because I do those things without recourse to a supreme being!

    (Although you wouldn't think so listening to me rant!)

  15. #75
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael T View Post
    Wouldn't it be more logical for you to look at it from the point of view that there is nothing in this universe and nothing logical in human history that actually points to the existence of some form of Supreme Being and so therefore we should all start from the premise that there isn’t one? At least until one decides to manifest itself to us all and shoot me down in flames!
    No...no, it wouldn't be more logical...

    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

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