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Thread: Shakespearean Winter '09

  1. #46
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote by Jozanny
    I downloaded a Richard II e-text so that I do not have to lug old Riverside off the shelf. I will start reading it over the weekend, though I am unclear as to when the discussion starts.

    I've read it before, but never studied it with previous instructors, nor seen a production.
    That is great. I have the same problem - one heavy book. Where did you find the text? I think also, it may be available on this site. I would really love to listen to the play on CD, or MP3 file, because I read it a few years back and audio-recordings always give me a little more insight and perspective. I will see if I can find it anywhere.
    Jozanny, I think we all are a bit unclear on when this discussion will begin. I had thought it would begin in January and was hoping it would also, but I don't know if that is true. Don't quote me on that. Just waiting for it to be officially announced myself.

    You will enjoy the play; I actually enjoyed all the history plays very much; which surprised me at the time; but then again I do like history, and stories at least based on true events...I also love stories about the monarchs.

    RG57 Janine, you have guessed correctly yes it is Robin, I have no worries about my first name, I belong to a couple of other forums and usually use Robin in way or another. Strange, you should mention Gloucester, that is the county where my father was born, my mother in Worcestershire, so between us we cover the three counties. My favourite place on earth is the Worcester Beacon on top of the Malvern Hills, a range of hills that go across Herefordshire and Worcestershire. Whenever I see any of our place names in other countries I still get amazed, like Gloucster in your area, I don't know if you get the TV programme Morse in the States, but one episode mentioned Hereford, my eyes lit up and was surprised that they were going to go Hereford in Australia.
    Robin, nice to know you. I am such a good guesser - haha -just kidding, it was a dead give-away! Yep, Gloucester and it is so oldd it where your father was born. I have often wondered about the place in England of the same name. Now Worchestershire also rings a sort of bell with me. I collect your English antique dishes - the printed ironstone transferware and other English china. You can see in my one album in my profile page. I think the word rings a bell because of Worchester fine china - I love the stuff, although I own very little of it, since it is so pricey. I actually do have a plate I suspect is handpainted and from the factory and painted by a certain artist with some prestige. The thing is I saw one so similar in the Philadelphia Art Museum and felt I might have a true treasure. The plate is stored and I must locate it. Hey, maybe I am rich and don't know it yet? haha...

    I don't think we get that show here, but we might. I don't watch much TV and don't have any cable upstairs. Funny right now I am finishing up a book and the setting is western Australia. Perth and Wadoo(?) is mentioned a lot; do you know those places? I don't recall Hereford being mentioned. I also read another Lawrence book set there - "Kangaroo". I found both books to be so interesting in the descriptions of the countryside and the bush.

    Where we live now a lot of the streets are named after Viking Kings and Earls, we move to Orkney 18 years ago!
    How funny. We have the English names for streets and you have the Viking names for streets.

    Quote Originally Posted by wessexgirl View Post
    I will try to join in with this read, I love R11. There are some standout speeches in it, really great quotes and beautiful language. I seem to remember a lot of imagery about gardens and nature, if I recall correctly. Hi Robin, I'm from quite near your neck of the woods, in Birmingham, (well it's the Midlands anyway, and I can get to Worcester and the Malverns quite easily ). I've already shown Janine a clip of Birmingham, but your area is lovelier, beautiful countryside and not a big urban sprawl. I have visited Elgar's birthplace in Malvern, but I don't do hills, I'm scared of heights ! Anyway, welcome, R11 is, I think, a very underrated play.
    wessexgirl, I hope you can participate. If it is in January I will be fine but Dec is difficult with all the activities leading up to the holidays. I really want to do this play since I too think it under-rated and a fine one. I also know that there are some very great speeches from it. But my alltime favorite speech is from Henry V - starts off with "Upon the King...." when Henry wanders through his camp at night and ruminates on what it is to be a king. I get goosebumps everytime I read that one or hear it recited.

    Wow, the Midlands...I have to go there someday. D.H.Lawrence was originally from the Midlands. I have to go and see his parent's grave and his birthplace, even though his bones or ashes are not really there. I saw the tombstone and it lists him, but his ashes are buried in New Mexico. Have to go to his rance there someday, too.

    Robin, it is the hilly areas I would really love to see. Many of Hardy's adaptations seem to take place in those exquisite areas. I bet it is pretty where you live.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #47
    biting writer
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    Janine, I am using the wikisource version, because I can read the entire play offline, and I don't like Gutenberg's font, and they don't always have an html edition, but feel free to follow your own preferences

    Here is the url:

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Tr...ard_the_Second

  3. #48
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozanny View Post
    Janine, I am using the wikisource version, because I can read the entire play offline, and I don't like Gutenberg's font, and they don't always have an html edition, but feel free to follow your own preferences

    Here is the url:

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Tr...ard_the_Second
    Thanks, Jozanny, I like that font too and will copy this version. It will be easier on the eyes to read.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  4. #49
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    Can't help feeling this reply should be in a different thread (Where do you come from, or something like that!) - I was born in Worcester (England) and know the counties around there, Gloucester, Hereford and Warwickshire well. We were a bus ride away from the Malverns and one of our favourite days out was a trip to the Beacon - not frighteningly high, Robin, but fantastic views over the surrounding countryside. Then we moved to Coventry which was a bus ride away from Stratford, so I was able to go to the theatre for matinees. Before I was born, my mother worked in the Royal Porcelain Works in Worcester so we had quite a bit of the china in the house when I was growing up - employees could buy 'seconds' at give-away prices so we had all unpainted bone china as our everyday ware!

    The reference to Hereford in My Fair Lady is the speech-training exercise - In Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly ever happen - to help Eliza sound the haitches that she dropped in her native Cockney!

    Your English street names are more likely to be county names than aristocratic names, Janine - most titles are attached to a place (Lord X of Xton) but whereas the placename has survived, often the title has fallen into disuse - there hasn't been a Duke of Monmouth since the seventeenth century, for example, since the last one tried (unsuccessfully) to seize the throne. And Viking names in Orkney - is that because Orkney was once part of a Norse kingdom?

    To get back to the proper theme - I'll be glad to read Richard II in the New Year. I saw it earlier in the year as part of The Histories sequence at Stratford and I saw it many years ago there with (I think) David Warner and Ian Richardson.

  5. #50
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=kasie;645795]Can't help feeling this reply should be in a different thread (Where do you come from, or something like that!) - I was born in Worcester (England) and know the counties around there, Gloucester, Hereford and Warwickshire well. We were a bus ride away from the Malverns and one of our favourite days out was a trip to the Beacon - not frighteningly high, Robin, but fantastic views over the surrounding countryside. Then we moved to Coventry which was a bus ride away from Stratford, so I was able to go to the theatre for matinees. Before I was born, my mother worked in the Royal Porcelain Works in Worcester so we had quite a bit of the china in the house when I was growing up - employees could buy 'seconds' at give-away prices so we had all unpainted bone china as our everyday ware![quote]

    Hi kasie,
    You need to visit RG57 and wessexgirl's profile pages - we need to form a club - the England or UK Appreciation club....seriously, we could do so in the 'social club' section...it would be quite interesting, since I am always saving photos from that region - castles, cemetaries, estates, author's birthsites, the moors, etc... all kinds of things. This information above, that you now provided, I find so interesting - thanks so much. I love to hear of these places. I like how you explained our street names (below) - that does throw a different light on the subject.

    Now I must know more about the Royal Porcelain Works in Worcester...how grand to get sample or 'seconds' pieces and blanks....that is so cool. You must view my photo file of my transferware collection in my profile page. I will soon have to remove it, because I want to post more of my grand-daughter and then of Christmas. I will keep it up this week, but then it may be gone.

    The reference to Hereford in My Fair Lady is the speech-training exercise - In Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly ever happen - to help Eliza sound the haitches that she dropped in her native Cockney!
    Yep, that is exactly what I had in-mind! I always laughed at that scene - great movie, too!

    Your English street names are more likely to be county names than aristocratic names, Janine - most titles are attached to a place (Lord X of Xton) but whereas the placename has survived, often the title has fallen into disuse - there hasn't been a Duke of Monmouth since the seventeenth century, for example, since the last one tried (unsuccessfully) to seize the throne. And Viking names in Orkney - is that because Orkney was once part of a Norse kingdom?
    This is so interesting to me...thanks...

    To get back to the proper theme - I'll be glad to read Richard II in the New Year. I saw it earlier in the year as part of The Histories sequence at Stratford and I saw it many years ago there with (I think) David Warner and Ian Richardson.
    Well, as far as the proper theme is concerned, it seems we are all in a bit of 'limbo' here. I still don't know when the actual discussion thread will be started or what it will be called. I would suppose the discussion would offically start next month but I could be wrong.

    Glad you will be joining the discussion. Must have been great with Ian Richardson - think I saw that advertized on Amazon. I saw some clips, from a version starring Derek Jacobi, and it looked to be quite fine. They can be viewed on Youtube...I plan to watch them again myself. Wish I owned the DVD.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  6. #51
    Asa Nisi Masa mayneverhave's Avatar
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    Looks like my horse won (or is winning). I studied Richard II this term, actually. Why did I vote for it then? My Shakespeare class is pretty stagnant in terms of discussion, and I'm tired of talking with my professors. As in all things, I must turn to the internet...

    I've seen the Derek Jacobi performance as well - it's available on Theatre in Video. Not a bad performance.

  7. #52
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayneverhave View Post
    Looks like my horse won (or is winning). I studied Richard II this term, actually. Why did I vote for it then? My Shakespeare class is pretty stagnant in terms of discussion, and I'm tired of talking with my professors. As in all things, I must turn to the internet...

    I've seen the Derek Jacobi performance as well - it's available on Theatre in Video. Not a bad performance.
    mayneverhave, funny you said that about your horse, because in "Richard III" the famous line is "My horse, my horse, a kingdom for my horse." - think I quoted that correctly, but I am not good at quoting so correct me if I used the wrong words...it might be 'a horse'....I just know it is the demise of Richard. I think afterwards they refer to him as a 'dog'....needless to say no one cried at his death...

    I would like to buy that DVD with Jacobi. I admire his acting greatly. I have his "Hamlet" on DVD and it is quite intense and a fine performance.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  8. #53
    Asa Nisi Masa mayneverhave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I would like to buy that DVD with Jacobi. I admire his acting greatly. I have his "Hamlet" on DVD and it is quite intense and a fine performance.
    Ah, you must mean his performance as Hamlet, as opposed to his role as Claudius in Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet.

    He's a fine actor, fantastic speaking voice.

  9. #54
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayneverhave View Post
    Ah, you must mean his performance as Hamlet, as opposed to his role as Claudius in Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet.

    He's a fine actor, fantastic speaking voice.
    Yes, Jacobi's "Hamlet" way prior to Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet; Jacobi is super young in it. I think it was done by the RSC or BBC. It is a fine production, but I prefer Branagh's production, since the sets are sparse in the Jacobi version, and dark. However, think the acting is superlative, but I do prefer one scene in Kenneth's Hamlet - the mirrored "To Be or Not to Be" speech - that is perfection. I own about 5 different Hamlet's on DVD's and tapes. I like them all, but watch the Branagh one the most. As Branagh explained this once during an interview, the film he made is merely his 'Hamlet"; everyone has a little different perception and concept of Hamlet, and that is the way it should be. I for one, embrass the 'variety' of the various productions of 'Hamlet'. They all have something great to offer. Jacobi was incredible in Branagh's 'Hamlet' as Claudius.

    I wish I owned Jacobi's fine performance as 'I Claudius'. I happened to see several segments of that film on Youtube - extraordinary! I need to buy that DVD. I like Jacobi immensely. You can see him on Youtube also directing a young Ken Branagh in his first stage performance of 'Hamlet.'...those videos are so interesting - watching the process...Think they are called "Discovering Hamlet".
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  10. #55
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    I remember Richard II being a surprisingly good read. It's not one usually read, but I thought it had some great moments.

    When does the discussion start?
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  11. #56
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I remember Richard II being a surprisingly good read. It's not one usually read, but I thought it had some great moments.

    When does the discussion start?
    Hey Quark, You are really making a real comeback and getting around this place today... You probably think I am following you.

    "Richard II" is a pretty good read; even though I did vote for "Richard III"; to me that one is like a thriller.

    I have been asking the same exact question and just don't know where everyone had run off to. Maybe, they already started a new thread. If so, I would have thought they would have placed a link in this voting thread. I will look around today. Hope that you can participate in this discussion. It should be a good one.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  12. #57
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    You probably think I am following you.
    There are worse people to be followed by.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    "Richard II" is a pretty good read; even though I did vote for "Richard III"; to me that one is like a thriller.
    True, but I like the idea of reading one of the lesser-read plays. It means that many of the people posting will be coming to the play for the first time, and first-impressions always make good posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I have been asking the same exact question and just don't know where everyone had run off to. Maybe, they already started a new thread.
    I think it just fizzled uneventfully. I warned them about that play. I did. No one listened to me, though.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  13. #58
    Hardback Copy! RG57's Avatar
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    Well, no matter when the actual start is, I shall be getting into it this weekend.
    Here were we wretched creatures of men making for each other's throats, and outraging the good earth which God had made so fair a habitation [Prester John - John Buchan].

  14. #59
    Asa Nisi Masa mayneverhave's Avatar
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    Aside from John of Gaunt, the first couple acts are slightly boring - specifically the formal combat scene in Act 1.

    Once the usurpation begins, however, things pick up, but perhaps I'll save my thoughts for the actual discussion thread.

  15. #60
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    There are worse people to be followed by.
    Well, glad you see it that way... Wait, does that mean 'I am the lesser of other evils'?

    True, but I like the idea of reading one of the lesser-read plays. It means that many of the people posting will be coming to the play for the first time, and first-impressions always make good posts.
    Yes, but I read both and thought this one less exciting, and that normally, the group needs something exciting to hold their attention. Already mayneverhave said that "the first couple acts are boring"...this was my thoughs on first reading that play but then it does pick up. I just hope the participants in this discussion stick with it, unlike the last play we attempted. With Richard III I was fascinated from the first words. But Richard II is a good play, a fine play. We just have to stick with it.

    I think it just fizzled uneventfully. I warned them about that play. I did. No one listened to me, though.
    Actually, I was comparing the two Richard plays not the MWOW with this Richard play. It did fizzle out, but we are all still saying we might revive it; I know, that is a long shot; especially since this one will begin soon....then the other will fade into oblivion perhaps.....
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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