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Thread: Poe Short Story Discussion Group

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    .

    Here he says her name he had never known.
    So either he is not stable mentally or just forgot the name because after the quote you put, he said that

    Of her family --I have surely heard her speak
    Therefore she told him but the problem is with him which is one of three:
    1. He didn't care when she told him
    2. He forgot due to time
    Or
    3. He is just contradicting himself

    And now, while I write, a recollection flashes upon me that I have never known the paternal name of her who was my friend and my betrothed, and who became the partner of my studies, and finally the wife of my bosom
    Of her family --I have surely heard her speak
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  2. #47
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Than again, just becasue she told him about her family, does not mean she ever gave him thier name. She could have told him anything regaurding her family, it never said he ever met the family, just he heard her speak of them. He would not have to know thier name for her to tell him stories about them.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    Than again, just becasue she told him about her family, does not mean she ever gave him thier name. She could have told him anything regaurding her family, it never said he ever met the family, just he heard her speak of them. He would not have to know thier name for her to tell him stories about them.

    Even though, it's interesting that he HEARD her speak of them but he never LISTENED to her, strange? It's as if we said earlier that he wasn't interested in knowing anything about her family.
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  4. #49
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I do not think there is any proof that he never listend to her. It did not say he did not listen to her. Just becasue he does not remeber what she said now, many years later, and after an addiction to opium, does not mean at the time she spoke, he did not listen.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I do not think there is any proof that he never listend to her. It did not say he did not listen to her. Just becasue he does not remeber what she said now, many years later, and after an addiction to opium, does not mean at the time she spoke, he did not listen.
    If you go to my previos quote from the story, you will see that he was sure that he heard her talk about them but, as can be inferred, he wasn't that much interested.
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  6. #51
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    I am not sure if I am convinved that quote is meant to imply he was not listening, as there are many other things he does not remember and he states at the begining how feeble his memory is, I am inclined to think, that is but another thing he simply can no longer recall.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  7. #52
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    I am going to post the next part of the text now, where we start to move into the discussion of the beauty of Ligeia which play an imporant and prodominant part within this story. It is also interesting that this is the one subject which does not fail the memory of the narrator, I have a few thoughts I want to post about some of the things said here, which I will come back to later, but for now here is the next portion of the story for discussion.

    There is one dear topic, however, on which my memory falls me not. It is the person of Ligeia. In stature she was tall, somewhat slender, and, in her latter days, even emaciated. I would in vain attempt to portray the majesty, the quiet ease, of her demeanor, or the incomprehensible lightness and elasticity of her footfall. She came and departed as a shadow. I was never made aware of her entrance into my closed study save by the dear music of her low sweet voice, as she placed her marble hand upon my shoulder. In beauty of face no maiden ever equalled her. It was the radiance of an opium-dream --an airy and spirit-lifting vision more wildly divine than the phantasies which hovered vision about the slumbering souls of the daughters of Delos. Yet her features were not of that regular mould which we have been falsely taught to worship in the classical labors of the heathen. "There is no exquisite beauty," says Bacon, Lord Verulam, speaking truly of all the forms and genera of beauty, without some strangeness in the proportion." Yet, although I saw that the features of Ligeia were not of a classic regularity --although I perceived that her loveliness was indeed "exquisite," and felt that there was much of "strangeness" pervading it, yet I have tried in vain to detect the irregularity and to trace home my own perception of "the strange." I examined the contour of the lofty and pale forehead --it was faultless --how cold indeed that word when applied to a majesty so divine! --the skin rivalling the purest ivory, the commanding extent and repose, the gentle prominence of the regions above the temples; and then the raven-black, the glossy, the luxuriant and naturally-curling tresses, setting forth the full force of the Homeric epithet, "hyacinthine!" I looked at the delicate outlines of the nose --and nowhere but in the graceful medallions of the Hebrews had I beheld a similar perfection. There were the same luxurious smoothness of surface, the same scarcely perceptible tendency to the aquiline, the same harmoniously curved nostrils speaking the free spirit. I regarded the sweet mouth. Here was indeed the triumph of all things heavenly --the magnificent turn of the short upper lip --the soft, voluptuous slumber of the under --the dimples which sported, and the color which spoke --the teeth glancing back, with a brilliancy almost startling, every ray of the holy light which fell upon them in her serene and placid, yet most exultingly radiant of all smiles. I scrutinized the formation of the chin --and here, too, I found the gentleness of breadth, the softness and the majesty, the fullness and the spirituality, of the Greek --the contour which the god Apollo revealed but in a dream, to Cleomenes, the son of the Athenian. And then I peered into the large eves of Ligeia.

    For eyes we have no models in the remotely antique. It might have been, too, that in these eves of my beloved lay the secret to which Lord Verulam alludes. They were, I must believe, far larger than the ordinary eyes of our own race. They were even fuller than the fullest of the gazelle eyes of the tribe of the valley of Nourjahad. Yet it was only at intervals --in moments of intense excitement --that this peculiarity became more than slightly noticeable in Ligeia. And at such moments was her beauty --in my heated fancy thus it appeared perhaps --the beauty of beings either above or apart from the earth --the beauty of the fabulous Houri of the Turk. The hue of the orbs was the most brilliant of black, and, far over them, hung jetty lashes of great length. The brows, slightly irregular in outline, had the same tint. The "strangeness," however, which I found in the eyes, was of a nature distinct from the formation, or the color, or the brilliancy of the features, and must, after all, be referred to the expression. Ah, word of no meaning! behind whose vast latitude of mere sound we intrench our ignorance of so much of the spiritual. The expression of the eyes of Ligeia! How for long hours have I pondered upon it! How have I, through the whole of a midsummer night, struggled to fathom it! What was it --that something more profound than the well of Democritus --which lay far within the pupils of my beloved? What was it? I was possessed with a passion to discover. Those eyes! those large, those shining, those divine orbs! they became to me twin stars of Leda, and I to them devoutest of astrologers.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  8. #53
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    What an extremely effective description by Poe. We're entranced by her exotic beauty, but we're also lead to question her mysterious qualities. This shows us perfectly how the narrator is both caught up with Ligeia and sceptical of her at the same time. While I would say that this section goes on for a little long, we can clearly see that Poe is leading up to something.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  9. #54
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    There are a few refrences made within this part of the story that I thought I would explain for those who may not know. It is interesting the way in which Poe weaves Greek lore, among other things into this story. It adds to the occult like mood which he is trying to set around Ligeia. So that the reader does question the true meaning of the ending of the story.

    Daughters of Delos:
    The three daughters of king Anius of Delos, Oeno (wine), Spermo (wheat) and Elais (oliveoil). Their grandfather was Dionysus, and he gave them the powers to change water into wine, grass into wheat and berries into olives. When the Greek fleet set out to make war in Troy, it was the daughters who stocked their ships. Agamemnon was so impressed with this that he kidnapped them. Dionysus saved them by turning them into white doves.

    Cleomenes was an Agiad King of Sparta in the late 6th and early 5th centuries BC

    They were even fuller than the fullest of the gazelle eyes of the tribe of the valley of Nourjahad. - This refers to "The History of Nourjahad", by Frances Sheridan (published in 1767). The main character, Nourjahad, wishes to become immortal.

    The beauty of the fabulous Houri of the Turk -In Islam, the Houri are described as "pure people of Paradise" awaiting devout Muslims. Though technically they are not human and are angels. The Houri were thought to have black eyes

    Something more profound than the well of Democritus- Ancient Greek philosopher (460-370 B.C.) Democritus suggested that matter cannot be destroyed but simply changes form; therefore space is 'a bottomless well'.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    What an extremely effective description by Poe. We're entranced by her exotic beauty, but we're also lead to question her mysterious qualities. This shows us perfectly how the narrator is both caught up with Ligeia and sceptical of her at the same time. While I would say that this section goes on for a little long, we can clearly see that Poe is leading up to something.
    You must have posted while I was still posting. Yes, at first it does feel as if it goes on for a long time, but I think it does truly capture the huanting dark beauty of Ligeia and wraps her within mystery. It is interesting the way in which mythology is used here as many of the refreances seem to be leading up and suggesting the ending of the story.

    Not only does it give her beauty that something exotic and mysterious, but there are the refrences to transfomation, imoratality, etheral beings.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  11. #56
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    It is interesting the way in which mythology is used here as many of the refreances seem to be leading up and suggesting the ending of the story.
    Yes, and I think the references point us in the direction Poe wants us to go. We trace the references back to their origin the same way we find the cause of the mysterious look in her eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    Not only does it give her beauty that something exotic and mysterious, but there are the refrences to transfomation, imoratality, etheral beings.
    I suppose there is transformation and immortality later on--in a strange way.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  12. #57
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    The more I read the story, the more I question just what really did happen at the end of the story. Poe offers so much, and was really quite clever in his writing of this story. Perhaps it was his intent to leave the ending a bit of a mystery as to the true nature of what really happend.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  13. #58
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    I have only recently reread Ligeia in a very old story anthology I picked up from the library bookstore; had I looked in earlier I might have joined you in this discussion. I will only make one observation. Poe is no Henry James, but I do not think the narrator husband is to be taken entirely at face value. He is morbid, a drug addict, and walls himself and his second wife up in an old tower. Is the reader really meant to believe that a *spirit* actively committed murder? I don't think so.

  14. #59
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    Nice to see you peek your head in here. Yes, that is very true, Poe is not a true realist in the sense that James was, but he did bring a physchoogical aspect into his stories. And from the start of this story the narrator is set up as an unreliable narrator telling the reader from the start to question what he is about to tell us.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    The beauty of the fabulous Houri of the Turk -In Islam, the Houri are described as "pure people of Paradise" awaiting devout Muslims. Though technically they are not human and are angels. The Houri were thought to have black eyes

    [
    Once I read about the Houris, I wasn't sure he meant the Houri mentioned in the Holy Qura'n. They are the wives -maids- of religious men in heaven. They are more appreciated for their wide white eyes with completely black(dark) eyeballs.


    The portraying of Eligei is quite thrilling. He gave her the most beautiful qualities both physically and spiritually. Is it because of his tremendous love for her or was she really that beautiful. I think he gave us all those descriptions to prepare us to believe that out of his great love for her, he fantasized his second wife transforming into her.
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