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Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #976
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    See it does refer to her chest.
    It's a victory for horny guys everywhere, I'm sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I think her entering into the garden, is symbolic, of her stepping back into her past in a way. And so it is as if for that moment in time she steps out of reality and steps into this "new world" or fantasy/dream world, as it makes references to her not being herself during her time within the garden.
    I suppose if we wanted to get Pscho-Analytic about this we could say that her fantasies are located (and must be located) in the past because her id is primal and her social consciousness and self-consciousness are gained later. Often in fiction where there is idealized desire the place where that desire is gratified is placed either in the past or in a secluded area. In both cases the idea of remoteness is key. Keat's romances are a good example. In poems like "Endymion" and "Lamia" the action is placed in this unobtainable, distant past. Also, they take place in these obscure, shaded groves. "Lamia" even tells us why it has to do this:

    "Upon a time, before the faery broods
    Drove Nymph and Satyr from the prosperous woods,
    Before King Oberon's bright diadem,
    Sceptre, and mantle, clasp'd with dewy gem,
    Frighted away the Dryads and the Fauns
    From rushes green, and brakes, and cowslip'd lawns,
    The ever-smitten Hermes empty left
    His golden throne, bent warm on amorous theft:
    From high Olympus had he stolen light,
    On this side of Jove's clouds, to escape the sight
    Of his great summoner, and made retreat
    Into a forest on the shores of Crete." (1-something)

    Hermes' "amorous theft" occurs in the past because soon after, apparently, Oberon kills the party. Similarly, in Lawrence's story we have a husband who chills all the romantic impulses in the main character. They both act like a superego and ego chiding an unbounded id. If you're going to have a story that idealizes romantic desire then it seems like you would have to put it in a time before that social consciousness and self-consciousness existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I think transfigured by pain and joy refers to her memorries which are somewhat bittersweelt. For it was her frist true and real love, but it brought her pain becasue he left her, and then she leaned of what she thought was his death.
    I hadn't thought of that, actually. My thought was that the "pain and joy" just referred to strong sensations--of which pain and joy are the two poles. I had taken "transfigured" to mean simply excited or shocked. Upon closer reading, though, I think you may be right. A lot of what is in the garden point to the two-ness of the experience. There are two paths in the garden, the roses are described as both vibrant and scentless, and the view, itself, is both beautiful and ugly. She can see both the garden and the view of the Cape. While the garden is warm colored and inviting, the seaside that she sees is describes as "There beyond lay the soft blue sea with the bay, misty with morning, and the farthest headland of black rock jutting dimly out between blue and blue of the sky and water". Lawrence contrast between the two and says, "All round were rose bushes, big banks of roses, then roses hanging and tumbling from pillars, or roses balanced on the standard bushes. By the open earth were many other flowers. If she lifted her head, the sea was upraised beyond, and the Cape." While it's true that she may be shocked or excited by what she's seeing, I think it's also true that there are two separate things she's seeing. The two could represent a number of things, too. Her mixed feelings about the past, like you suggested, could be one. It also could be about her feeling toward the two men.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  2. #977
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Ok, let's get to the second critical scene, the scene where she meets her old lover.

    Then she started cruelly as a shadow crossed her and a figure moved into her sight. It was a man who had come in slippers, unheard. He wore a linen coat. The morning was shattered, the spell vanished away. She was only afraid of being questioned. He came forward. She rose. Then, seeing him, the strength went from her and she sank on the seat again.

    He was a young man, military in appearance, growing slightly stout. His black hair was brushed smooth and bright, his moustache was waxed. But there was something rambling in his gait. She looked up, blanched to the lips, and saw his eyes. They were black, and stared without seeing. They were not a man's eyes. He was coming towards her.

    He stared at her fixedly, made unconscious salute, and sat down beside her on the seat. He moved on the bench, shifted his feet, saying, in a gentlemanly, military voice:

    "I don't disturb you--do I?"

    She was mute and helpless. He was scrupulously dressed in dark clothes and a linen coat. She could not move. Seeing his hands, with the ring she knew so well upon the little finger, she felt as if she were going dazed. The whole world was deranged. She sat unavailing. For his hands, her symbols of passionate love, filled her with horror as they rested now on his strong thighs.

    "May I smoke?" he asked intimately, almost secretly, his hand going to his pocket.

    She could not answer, but it did not matter, he was in another world. She wondered, craving, if he recognized her--if he could recognize her. She sat pale with anguish. But she had to go through it.

    "I haven't got any tobacco," he said thoughtfully.

    But she paid no heed to his words, only she attended to him. Could he recognize her, or was it all gone? She sat still in a frozen kind of suspense.

    "I smoke John Cotton," he said, "and I must economize with it, it is expensive. You know, I'm not very well off while these lawsuits are going on."

    "No," she said, and her heart was cold, her soul kept rigid.

    He moved, made a loose salute, rose, and went away. She sat motionless. She could see his shape, the shape she had loved, with all her passion: his compact, soldier's head, his fine figure now slackened. And it was not he. It only filled her with horror too difficult to know.

    Suddenly he came again, his hand in his jacket pocket.

    "Do you mind if I smoke?" he said. "Perhaps I shall be able to see things more clearly."

    He sat down beside her again, filling a pipe. She watched his hands with the fine strong fingers. They had always inclined to tremble slightly. It had surprised her, long ago, in such a healthy man. Now they moved inaccurately, and the tobacco hung raggedly out of the pipe.

    "I have legal business to attend to. Legal affairs are always so uncertain. I tell my solicitor exactly, precisely what I want, but I can never get it done."

    She sat and heard him talking. But it was not he. Yet those were the hands she had kissed, there were the glistening, strange black eyes that she had loved. Yet it was not he. She sat motionless with horror and silence. He dropped his tobacco pouch, and groped for it on the ground. Yet she must wait if he would recognize her. Why could she not go! In a moment he rose.

    "I must go at once," he said. "The owl is coming." Then he added confidentially: "His name isn't really the owl, but I call him that. I must go and see if he has come."

    She rose too. He stood before her, uncertain. He was a handsome, soldierly fellow, and a lunatic. Her eyes searched him, and searched him, to see if he would recognize her, if she could discover him.

    "You don't know me?" she asked, from the terror of her soul, standing alone.

    He looked back at her quizzically. She had to bear his eyes. They gleamed on her, but with no intelligence. He was drawing nearer to her.

    "Yes, I do know you," he said, fixed, intent, but mad, drawing his face nearer hers. Her horror was too great. The powerful lunatic was coming too near to her.

    A man approached, hastening.

    "The garden isn't open this morning," he said.

    The deranged man stopped and looked at him. The keeper went to the seat and picked up the tobacco pouch left lying there.

    "Don't leave your tobacco, sir," he said, taking it to the gentleman in the linen coat.

    "I was just asking this lady to stay to lunch," the latter said politely. "She is a friend of mine."

    The woman turned and walked swiftly, blindly, between the sunny roses, out of the garden, past the house with the blank, dark windows, through the sea-pebbled courtyard to the street. Hastening and blind, she went forward without hesitating, not knowing whither. Directly she came to the house she went upstairs, took off her hat, and sat down on the bed. It was as if some membrane had been torn in two in her, so that she was not an entity that could think and feel. She sat staring across at the window, where an ivy spray waved slowly up and down in the sea wind. There was some of the uncanny luminousness of the sunlit sea in the air. She sat perfectly still, without any being. She only felt she might be sick, and it might be blood that was loose in her torn entrails. She sat perfectly still and passive.
    Actually this is a fairly straight forward scene. One thing I do notice is how sexual the old lover is alluded to: "For his hands, her symbols of passionate love, filled her with horror as they rested now on his strong thighs." and "She could see his shape, the shape she had loved, with all her passion: his compact, soldier's head, his fine figure now slackened." Hands, thighs, slackened.

    Another interesting thing is that both the woman and the man are living in a different world putside of reality. She was in a different world in the rose garden, the world of the past, but not just the rose garden but her life with her husband. He is in his own world ,that of insanity: "he was in another world."

    The key thing though I think is the constant reference to the military. It is through the war that he is now insane. The war has caused the schism between the lovers. The war has cuased the her to ultimately marry the lesser man. This is what leads to the most powerful sentence in the scene, of not the whole story: "It was as if some membrane had been torn in two in her, so that she was not an entity that could think and feel." The viloence of the war has caused her lover to be insane, caused her to fragment her life, and caused her a psychological tearing. It brings her back to reality.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  3. #978
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Virgil;530261]Ok, let's get to the second critical scene, the scene where she meets her old lover.[QUOTE]

    Oh good - moving right along....

    Actually this is a fairly straight forward scene. One thing I do notice is how sexual the old lover is alluded to: "For his hands, her symbols of passionate love, filled her with horror as they rested now on his strong thighs." and "She could see his shape, the shape she had loved, with all her passion: his compact, soldier's head, his fine figure now slackened." Hands, thighs, slackened.
    Yes, I had noticed that and thought it really interesting...and Lawrence has this thing about thighs. You guys have the breast fetish and L had the thigh fetish. In "Women In Love" it was when Ursula discovered Birkin's thighs she was entranced or tranfigured - wasn't it? In the current book I am reading the mention of thighs has recently cropped up again...I had to laugh when I noted it. Also, in 'Horse-Dealer's Daughter' thigh touching seems pretty prominent. Hands, I think Lawrence often mentioned. Lawrence, himself, was suppose to have lovely delicate expressive hands. I know he had beautiful handwriting. Personally, I always view a man's hands and think it says something important about him. Janine is a hand girl herself!
    Virgil,
    what do you suppose the 'slackened' stands for - impotence of the insane lover? I am not joking on this one, but quite serious.

    Another interesting thing is that both the woman and the man are living in a different world putside of reality. She was in a different world in the rose garden, the world of the past, but not just the rose garden but her life with her husband. He is in his own world ,that of insanity: "he was in another world."
    Good point. Reality is different things to different people.


    The key thing though I think is the constant reference to the military. It is through the war that he is now insane. The war has caused the schism between the lovers. The war has cuased the her to ultimately marry the lesser man. This is what leads to the most powerful sentence in the scene, of not the whole story: "It was as if some membrane had been torn in two in her, so that she was not an entity that could think and feel." The viloence of the war has caused her lover to be insane, caused her to fragment her life, and caused her a psychological tearing. It brings her back to reality.
    War would have definitely been on Lawrence's mind at this period, would it not? Usually war is not mentioned outright but Lawrence manages to show the ravages and effects of war on individuals. This was evident in "Women in Love" and war was never truly mentioned was it. I believe we did explore this idea in the book discussion group.

    Now I have to address Quark's post; I chased him from the Chekhov thread, to over here, to post something brilliant for me. He will get jealous if I don't answer him.
    Last edited by Janine; 02-12-2008 at 11:22 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  4. #979
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Yes, I had noticed that and thought it really interesting...and Lawrence has this thing about thighs. You guys have the breast fetish and L had the thigh fetish. In "Women In Love" it was when Ursula discovered Birkin's thighs she was entranced or tranfigured - wasn't it? In the current book I am reading the mention of thighs has recently cropped up again...I had to laugh when I noted it. Also, in 'Horse-Dealer's Daughter' thigh touching seems pretty prominent. Hands, I think Lawrence often mentioned. Lawrence, himself, was suppose to have lovely delicate expressive hands. I know he had beautiful handwriting. Personally, I always view a man's hands and think it says something important about him. Janine is a hand girl herself!
    Virgil,
    what do you suppose the 'slackened' stands for - impotence of the insane lover? I am not joking on this one, but quite serious.
    And what makes ceertain hands sexy? Yes slackened for sexual inability. Boy carriage and slackened parts. This story is risque.

    War would have definitely been on Lawrence's mind at this period, would it not? Usually war is not mentioned outright but Lawrence manages to show the ravages and effects of war on individuals. This was evident in "Women in Love" and war was never truly mentioned was it. I believe we did explore this idea in the book discussion group.
    You know something just crossed my mind. this story may have been written before the war. When was this exactly written, I'm confused?
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  5. #980
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    It's a victory for horny guys everywhere, I'm
    Chalk one up for the guys factor here!

    I suppose if we wanted to get Pscho-Analytic about this we could say that her fantasies are located (and must be located) in the past because her id is primal and her social consciousness and self-consciousness are gained later. Often in fiction where there is idealized desire the place where that desire is gratified is placed either in the past or in a secluded area. In both cases the idea of remoteness is key. Keat's romances are a good example. In poems like "Endymion" and "Lamia" the action is placed in this unobtainable, distant past. Also, they take place in these obscure, shaded groves. "Lamia" even tells us why it has to do this:

    "Upon a time, before the faery broods
    Drove Nymph and Satyr from the prosperous woods,
    Before King Oberon's bright diadem,
    Sceptre, and mantle, clasp'd with dewy gem,
    Frighted away the Dryads and the Fauns
    From rushes green, and brakes, and cowslip'd lawns,
    The ever-smitten Hermes empty left
    His golden throne, bent warm on amorous theft:
    From high Olympus had he stolen light,
    On this side of Jove's clouds, to escape the sight
    Of his great summoner, and made retreat
    Into a forest on the shores of Crete." (1-something)
    Quark, "the idea of remoteness is key" - this is good. She is looking for seclusion from the world in order to live in a dream of her past. Here she can imagine she is still back in the past, secluded in this rose garden from her past. But then when reality confronts her, in the form of the man, her actual former lover, it breaks into that dream and shatters it. Interesting, isn't it? Time and it's concept is also of 'non-reality' in my opinion. There is a Greek saying Opus (?) ...can't recall it exactly now (I saw it in a movie)...means 'the future is behind you'. Time and the concepts of time are relative. This dream is relative in a way; in other words when there is no invasion from the outside real physical world, the woman can indeed live here in her past, and a different time zone; as soon as that invasion dominates, time revolves back to the present. I think it is all conceptual. Can you understand my idea or is it too 'far-out'?


    Hermes' "amorous theft" occurs in the past because soon after, apparently, Oberon kills the party. Similarly, in Lawrence's story we have a husband who chills all the romantic impulses in the main character. They both act like a superego and ego chiding an unbounded id. If you're going to have a story that idealizes romantic desire then it seems like you would have to put it in a time before that social consciousness and self-consciousness existed.
    Still thinking about this, but I think I understand what you are getting at. So, the rose garden setting is helping to place the romantic desire, which is idealized in that setting, back into the time period which is the woman's past? Is this basically what you are saying?


    I hadn't thought of that, actually. My thought was that the "pain and joy" just referred to strong sensations--of which pain and joy are the two poles. I had taken "transfigured" to mean simply excited or shocked. Upon closer reading, though, I think you may be right. A lot of what is in the garden point to the two-ness of the experience.
    "My thought was that the 'pain and joy' just referred to strong sensations--of which pain and joy are the two poles."
    I like this 'polarity' idea of yours and it fits like the contrasts, I had earlier pointed out. Duality often evident throughout the story, as you point out below. I had wondered about those two paths and their significance. Could it be that she must now take one out of the garden back into reality and the lover must take the other deeper into non-reality or his insanity?


    There are two paths in the garden, the roses are described as both vibrant and scentless, and the view, itself, is both beautiful and ugly. She can see both the garden and the view of the Cape. While the garden is warm colored and inviting, the seaside that she sees is describes as "There beyond lay the soft blue sea with the bay, misty with morning, and the farthest headland of black rock jutting dimly out between blue and blue of the sky and water". Lawrence contrast between the two and says, "All round were rose bushes, big banks of roses, then roses hanging and tumbling from pillars, or roses balanced on the standard bushes. By the open earth were many other flowers. If she lifted her head, the sea was upraised beyond, and the Cape." While it's true that she may be shocked or excited by what she's seeing, I think it's also true that there are two separate things she's seeing. The two could represent a number of things, too. Her mixed feelings about the past, like you suggested, could be one. It also could be about her feeling toward the two men.
    Excellent and I agree. This duality is quite interesting.

    Quark, glad I chased you over from the Chekhov thread....and you have stunned me!
    Last edited by Janine; 02-12-2008 at 11:46 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  6. #981
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    You know something just crossed my mind. this story may have been written before the war. When was this exactly written, I'm confused?
    The story was published in the same year WW I began. I'm not sure which preceded which. I think WW I began in August, and I have no idea what date the story came out on.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    And what makes ceertain hands sexy? Yes slackened for sexual inability.
    I don't know why, but many woman feel that way about hands. I was surprised (but not really) when I was in that funny thread awhile back "what do you find appealing?" - something like that; check it out. I think you can tell a lot about a man's intelligence from his hands and how he holds them and expresses himself with them...seriously. Lawrence mentions hands often in his writings, I have noticed that. He seemed to admire hands very much so.

    Boy carriage and slackened parts. This story is risque.
    You are hilarious with 'boy' and 'carriage' thown in there for good measure...get it? I really have to Oh yeah, really risque. You have been in the 'legs game' thread a little too long!


    You know something just crossed my mind. this story may have been written before the war. When was this exactly written, I'm confused?
    NO - I refuse to look this up again!!! Go back to the long post, when I told you all about when it was written - I quoted from the timeline book extensively! You are a lazy bum, Virgil!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I don't know why, but many woman feel that way about hands. I was surprised (but not really) when I was in that funny thread awhile back "what do you find appealing?" - something like that; check it out. I think you can tell a lot about a man's intelligence from his hands and how he holds them and expresses himself with them...seriously. Lawrence mentions hands often in his writings, I have noticed that. He seemed to admire hands very much so.
    Did I ever tell you how sophisticated and elegant and athletic my hands are? I have the hands of a pianist.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  9. #984
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Virgil;530261]Actually this is a fairly straight forward scene. One thing I do notice is how sexual the old lover is alluded to: "For his hands, her symbols of passionate love, filled her with horror as they rested now on his strong thighs." and "She could see his shape, the shape she had loved, with all her passion: his compact, soldier's head, his fine figure now slackened." Hands, thighs, slackened.

    Another interesting thing is that both the woman and the man are living in a different world putside of reality. She was in a different world in the rose garden, the world of the past, but not just the rose garden but her life with her husband. He is in his own world ,that of insanity: "he was in another world." [QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Yes, I had noticed that and thought it really interesting...and Lawrence has this thing about thighs. You guys have the breast fetish and L had the thigh fetish. In "Women In Love" it was when Ursula discovered Birkin's thighs she was entranced or tranfigured - wasn't it? In the current book I am reading the mention of thighs has recently cropped up again...I had to laugh when I noted it. Also, in 'Horse-Dealer's Daughter' thigh touching seems pretty prominent. Hands, I think Lawrence often mentioned. Lawrence, himself, was suppose to have lovely delicate expressive hands. I know he had beautiful handwriting. Personally, I always view a man's hands and think it says something important about him. Janine is a hand girl herself!
    Virgil,
    what do you suppose the 'slackened' stands for - impotence of the insane lover? I am not joking on this one, but quite serious.
    I hadn't noticed the thigh fetishizing, but I did stop at the line "For his hands, her passionate symbols of love." Certainly physical appearance is important in this story. After all, it begins with the husband's self-examination. Yet, for all the descriptions, I really can't picture the characters in my head since the adjectives he uses are not at all visual. Lawrence calls the husbands figure, "alert and vigorous." The coat he's wearing has a "smart and self-confident air." And, the overall impression of his appearance is "not ill favored." The depiction of the woman is slightly more tangible but still we get "she had a fine carriage, very proud." With all this indirect characterization through personal appearance, it wouldn't surprise me at all if slackened hands were an indication of impotence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Time and it's concept is also of 'non-reality' in my opinion. There is a Greek saying Opus (?) ...can't recall it exactly now (I saw it in a movie)...means 'the future is behind you'. Time and the concepts of time are relative. This dream is relative in a way; in other words when there is no invasion from the outside real physical world, the woman can indeed live here in her past, and a different time zone; as soon as that invasion dominates, time revolves back to the present. I think it is all conceptual. Can you understand my idea or is it too 'far-out'?
    Whoa, you're getting all metaphysical on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    "My thought was that the 'pain and joy' just referred to strong sensations--of which pain and joy are the two poles."
    I like this 'polarity' idea of yours and it fits like the contrasts, I had earlier pointed out. Duality often evident throughout the story, as you point out below. I had wondered about those two paths and their significance. Could it be that she must now take one out of the garden back into reality and the lover must take the other deeper into non-reality or his insanity?
    Yes, the two-ness of the garden episode refers to several other things in the story. Her mixed feelings about the past, the two lovers, and that split feeling she gets are all hit upon I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Quark, glad I chased you over from the Chekhov thread....and you have stunned me!
    btw, I just remembered that "In the Ravine" is almost 50 pages long. It may be too exhausting to try that one.
    Last edited by Quark; 02-13-2008 at 12:21 AM. Reason: Forgot a Word
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I hadn't noticed the thigh fetishizing, but I did stop at the line "For his hands, her passionate symbols of love." Certainly physical appearance is important in this story. After all, it begins with the husband's self-examination. Yet, for all the descriptions, I really can't picture the characters in my head since the adjectives he uses are not at all visual. Lawrence calls the husbands figure, "alert and vigorous." The coat he's wearing has a "smart and self-confident air." And, the overall impression of his appearance is "not ill favored." The depiction of the woman is slightly more tangible but still we get "she had a fine carriage, very proud." With all this indirect characterization through personal appearance, it wouldn't surprise me at all if slackened hands were an indication of impotence.
    Hands clearly are intended to play some imporant role here, as at the end of the story, when the Husband confronts the woman, the story makes a point of pointing out the husbands hands, almost in comparrison to that of the lovers, while he has the strong hands of a millitary man, her husbands hands are that of a laboror.

    There is also one scene in talking about the husband which states

    His hands seemed gross to her

    Another thing I notcied though I do not know if it has any meaning, but it just sort of stuck out to me, is that the story made a point of refering in someway to both the husbands, and the lovers mustache.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  11. #986
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Did I ever tell you how sophisticated and elegant and athletic my hands are? I have the hands of a pianist.
    But are they intelligent?
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  12. #987
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    Hands clearly are intended to play some imporant role here, as at the end of the story, when the Husband confronts the woman, the story makes a point of pointing out the husbands hands, almost in comparrison to that of the lovers, while he has the strong hands of a millitary man, her husbands hands are that of a laboror.
    Definitely, they their hands were compared and pointed out to the reader. They seem to signify the difference in class between the two men. I get the impression the soldier was a more refined sort of man while the husband was a working class man (there was a reference to the mines or pits).

    Another thing I notcied though I do not know if it has any meaning, but it just sort of stuck out to me, is that the story made a point of refering in someway to both the husbands, and the lovers mustache.
    Dark Muse, that is something I noticed too and really interesting. Did you notice how it kept saying he was sucking up his mustashe as he was eating? ick.
    He looked at her as he drank his coffee; he sucked his moustache, and putting down his cup....
    The other man's mustashe seemed to be waxed and neat, didn't it? DM, maybe you can post some quotes, to further illustrate this point of the differences.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Definitely, they their hands were compared and pointed out to the reader. They seem to signify the difference in class between the two men. I get the impression the soldier was a more refined sort of man while the husband was a working class man (there was a reference to the mines or pits).
    Yes, and it did at one point say that the husband had the hands of a laboror






    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    The other man's mustashe seemed to be waxed and neat, didn't it? DM, maybe you can post some quotes, to further illustrate this point of the differences.

    Sure I can do that, I will just go over my copy of the story and then post the passages that compare the different mustaches of the two men

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    I hadn't noticed the thigh fetishizing, but I did stop at the line "For his hands, her passionate symbols of love." Certainly physical appearance is important in this story. After all, it begins with the husband's self-examination. Yet, for all the descriptions, I really can't picture the characters in my head since the adjectives he uses are not at all visual. Lawrence calls the husbands figure, "alert and vigorous." The coat he's wearing has a "smart and self-confident air." And, the overall impression of his appearance is "not ill favored." The depiction of the woman is slightly more tangible but still we get "she had a fine carriage, very proud." With all this indirect characterization through personal appearance, it wouldn't surprise me at all if slackened hands were an indication of impotence.
    Your last line is quite laughable!

    Whoa, you're getting all metaphysical on me.
    If you think I confused you, you should see how confused I was after writing that.



    Yes, the two-ness of the garden episode refers to several other things in the story. Her mixed feelings about the past, the two lovers, and that split feeling she gets are all hit upon I think.
    That is good and very true. Hey, Q, did you just make up that new word 'two-ness' You are a laugh a minute tonight!

    btw, I just remembered that "In the Ravine" is almost 50 pages long. It may be too exhausting to try that one.
    ugh...groan....yes, I thought it might be too long. Yikes, that is a novella! Ok, I will get you the list of the others on the CD set. Please... please... let's pick a few of those.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    Yes, and it did at one point say that the husband had the hands of a laboror
    Yeah, I remember that. Good to point that out again.


    Sure I can do that, I will just go over my copy of the story and then post the passages that compare the different mustaches of the two men
    That would be great, DM, if you could do that. Thanks.


    I think I am bailing out now and heading for bed. I have tons of reading to do. Goodnight everyone. Great posts today!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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