D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Janine]

Are y'all reading in a particular order or anything?? Is there a story that is coming up next for discussion??

(Thanks for helping me find my way here, janine!)

Hi Shannon, My pleasure to have directed you here. Glad you found the thread. I am always trying to recruit people for this discussion, my being a great L enthusiast. Lawrence's short stories are among some of the finest written in the English language. In the first post, Virgil writes a very informative introduction to Lawrence's short stories. I am quite pleased if you will be joining us. As you may have noticed, mostly the discussions have gotten down to Virgil and myself. We need more discussers!

Yes, we will be choosing another story real soon. I think we got distracted trying to finish up our May book of the month - "A Prayer for Owen Meany" - it was a long book. I should have posted something in here a few days ago, but then I got distracted and busy. I will post tonight. Then, hopefully, we can quickly get on with this story's ending and to the next.

Pretty much we have kept this thread rather unstructured. We did not have a set time to choose a new story. Hopefully by the weekend or start of next week we could choose a new one to read. The one we are on has been longer than most. I will let you know or do check in again. Please be patient...we will continue this thread; you will find it worthwhile - interesting and revealing of Lawrence.

If you have read "The Prussian Officer", please feel free to jump in at this point to discuss the remainder.

[Janine]

I've been around. Sometimes it takes me a little time to respond. Actually you just reminded me of the Simon & Garfunkle song, Mrs Robinson. There is a line there that says: "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?" And then later in the song, it says: What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson? / "Joltin' Joe has left and gone away". Joe DiMaggio was alive when the song came out, and he never understood what they were talking about. He is supposed to have said, "whadda you mean gone away. I'm still here." What do you mean where have i run off to?

Virgil, I am still laughing about this analogy. It is a good one.
I went and read the Wikipedia biography about DiMaggio. You had me curious. Here is what one part said:
"A generation later, Simon and Garfunkel used him in that same vein in "Mrs. Robinson". The literal-minded DiMaggio was reportedly not fond of the lyric "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?" as he was very much alive, and had not gone anywhere. However, he changed his mind when he gained a whole new generation of fans from that song. When he died the London Times observed in its obituary that the lines from "Mrs Robinson" were what DiMaggio would be most remembered for."
It is an interesting biography. It lists all the songs that immortalised his name and their were are quite a number, besides Mrs. Robinson. Also tells how he married Marilyn Monroe, they were divorced, and just before her death he wanted to remarry her. I did not realise all this.

Ah, but that's a biological thing. There is something wrong with the chemistry and neuron mechanics in the brain. A sub-conscious is not biological. You might as well believe in good and bad angels because it's the same thing, a metaphysical construct that doesn't exist.

Well, this is true but I was kind of kidding with you about it. I still disagree with you mostly about sub-consciousness and it being merely a 'metaphysical construct'. To be honest with you, I never heard this theory, so I will have to think about it. I think so much of Lawrence's work is based on subconsious ideas that it is like pulling the rug out from under me. I just don't know. You have me a bit confused at this point.

I agree he's different than Frued or Jung or a whole host of other early psychologists, and for someone like lawrence who had no medical training to come up with a competetive theory to those other psychologists shows you that there is nothing biological about this. It's mythology.

Well, truly I don't care if L had a degree in pychology or not. He was intuitive and perceptive and that is good enough for me. If he wanted to form his own theories on the mind that is acceptable within the confines of his art - his writing. I can accept it as being psychological to him. Pyschological is not a mythology to me. But if you want to believe it is that is fine too. Like some people believing in organised religions and others not.

Perhaps you missed my response above that last post where I replied to your comments. Can't wait for Women In Love either. I hope it wins.

I did go back and read that post. I will check now and if need be try and answer anything I missed.
I hope WIL wins too. The vote is getting precariously close. Do the polls close tomorrow or midnight tonight? J

[Virgil]

Ok, this could be my wrap up of The Prussian Officer.

Part III we find the orderly trying to escape in the woods after killing the Officer, and suffering from heat stroke. I'm reminded of something inspirangel (what happened to inpirangel? Is she coming back?) said a number of pages back, and that is she felt this story was about self-preservation. The orderly is trying to preserve himself here and his killing of the officer could be seen as an act of self-preservation. There may be something to that. But the orderly doesn't preserve himself, he dies. And I can't help but feel that both the orderly and the officer need each other. I'm not sure I can prove it, but they do strike me as compliments of each other.

Another thing I wanted to point out is that as the orderly starts feeling the effects of the heat stroke his senses heighten. Check this out:

When he opened his eyes again, he started, seeing something creeping swiftly up a tree-trunk. It was a little bird. And the bird was whistling overhead. Tap-tap-tap--it was the small, quick bird rapping the tree-trunk with its beak, as if its head were a little round hammer. He watched it curiously. It shifted sharply, in its creeping fashion. Then, like a mouse, it slid down the bare trunk. Its swift creeping sent a flash of revulsion through him. He raised his head. It felt a great weight. Then, the little bird ran out of the shadow across a still patch of sunshine, its little head bobbing swiftly, its white legs twinkling brightly for a moment. How neat it was in its build, so compact, with pieces of white on its wings. There were several of them. They were so pretty--but they crept like swift, erratic mice, running here and there among the beech-mast.

Notice how sounds and the sights become so sharp. This is something that Lawrence does on a number of occaisions when a character is dying or undergoing a mentally altering event.

Another thing in this third part is the outstanding prose. This is among some of his best writing:

Struggling to his feet, he lurched away. He went on walking, walking, looking for something--for a drink. His brain felt hot and inflamed for want of water. He stumbled on. Then he did not know anything. He went unconscious as he walked. Yet he stumbled on, his mouth open.

When, to his dumb wonder, he opened his eyes on the world again, he no longer tried to remember what it was. There was thick, golden light behind golden-green glitterings, and tall, grey-purple shafts, and darknesses further off, surrounding him, growing deeper. He was conscious of a sense of arrival. He was amid the reality, on the real, dark bottom. But there was the thirst burning in his brain. He felt lighter, not so heavy. He supposed it was newness. The air was muttering with thunder. He thought he was walking wonderfully swiftly and was coming straight to relief--or was it to water?

Suddenly he stood still with fear. There was a tremendous flare of gold, immense--just a few dark trunks like bars between him and it. All the young level wheat was burnished gold glaring on its silky green. A woman, full-skirted, a black cloth on her head for head-dress, was passing like a block of shadow through the glistening, green corn, into the full glare. There was a farm, too, pale blue in shadow, and the timber black. And there was a church spire, nearly fused away in the gold. The woman moved on, away from him. He had no language with which to speak to her. She was the bright, solid unreality. She would make a noise of words that would confuse him, and her eyes would look at him without seeing him. She was crossing there to the other side. He stood against a tree.

And this:

During the night the lightning fluttered perpetually, making the whole sky white. He must have walked again. The world hung livid round him for moments, fields a level sheen of grey-green light, trees in dark bulk, and the range of clouds black across a white sky. Then the darkness fell like a shutter, and the night was whole. A faint flutter of a half-revealed world, that could not quite leap out of the darkness! Then there again stood a sweep of pallor for the land, dark shapes looming, a range of clouds hanging overhead. The world was a ghostly shadow, thrown for a moment upon the pure darkness, which returned ever whole and complete.

And finally the two main characters lay together in Part IV in a mortuary as two sides of a coin:

The bodies of the two men lay together, side by side, in the mortuary, the one white and slender, but laid rigidly at rest, the other looking as if every moment it must rouse into life again, so young and unused, from a slumber.

[Janine]

Yes, it suggests the workings of a human mind. But that's because he's a great writer. But Homer having Athena whispering in Oddyseus's ear and guiding him seemed like reality for the ancient Greeks. It's what you're culturally attuned to. The sub-conscious is no different than a good angel or a bad angel whispering into your ear. Some religious people believed (and many still do) that good and bad angels guides people.

Are you not confusing having a "conscience" from the "sub-conscious"? When a person has a 'conscience' it could be like a good angel whispering in his ear. If he is devoid of one, could be a devil spurring him on. As far as Lawence is concerned I am now in a state of confusion. Maybe I never delved this far below the surface of his writings or it just did not matter greatly to me either way.
If it is ok with you I would like to go on with the story and finish it up soon.

NOTE: sorry just posted this as you were posting above me. I will answer that one soon if my poor aching brain can hold out. I have been feeling overwhelmed lately. J

[Virgil]

Are you not confusing having a "conscience" from the "sub-conscious"? When a person has a 'conscience' it could be like a good angel whispering in his ear. If he is devoid of one, could be a devil spurring him on. As far as Lawence is concerned I am now in a state of confusion. Maybe I never delved this far below the surface of his writings or it just did not matter greatly to me either way.
If it is ok with you I would like to go on with the story and finish it up soon.

NOTE: sorry just posted this as you were posting above me. I will answer that one soon if my poor aching brain can hold out. I have been feeling overwhelmed lately. J

No I'm not talking about concience, but consciousness and sub-conscious. What I meant by the good/bad angel analogy was that the sub-conscious supposedly controls our actions (id, ego, superego) and that is what i'm saying is bunk. The id pushing us toward desires while the superego clamping down is comparable to a bad angel pushing us towards desires and good angels clamping down. It's all bunk. The sub-conscious is a myth. Sorry if I wasn't clearer. Anyway this is a Lawrence thread. I've stated my opinion; it's contrary to conventional thought. So be it.

[Janine]

No I'm not talking about concience, but consciousness and sub-conscious. What I meant by the good/bad angel analogy was that the sub-conscious supposedly controls our actions (id, ego, superego) and that is what i'm saying is bunk. The id pushing us toward desires while the superego clamping down is comparable to a bad angel pushing us towards desires and good angels claping down. It's all bunk. The sub-conscious is a myth. Sorry if I wasn't clearer. Anyway this is a Lawrence thread. I've stated my opinion; it's contrary to conventional thought. So be it.

Virgil, well you are taking me back to my crazy college days talking about the id, ego and superego. I really never studied pshychologoy in college - just had an English professor who was totally unconventional and had us reading all those books that came out at the time - a lot of Herman Hesse books and "The Book of the Id" I recall. To be honest with you all that took place a lifetime ago for me. It has been eons since I even thought of these things. I thought at the time they were novel ideas but ofcourse as time went by we all got practical and thought differently. I really would have to go back and review all this stuff to fully understand. I have to be content just seeing the pshchological stuff in Lawrence's writing in his vane of thought and let it be at that. I hope this makes sense. It could be mostly 'bunk' but I try to see L's writing when he first was discovering these ideas and expounding on them.
Too tired now to write more. I will address your last post tomorrow. It is late now. I did read it though.

[Janine]

Ok, this could be my wrap up of The Prussian Officer.

Part III we find the orderly trying to escape in the woods after killing the Officer, and suffering from heat stroke. I'm reminded of something inspirangel (what happened to inpirangel? Is she coming back?) said a number of pages back, and that is she felt this story was about self-preservation. The orderly is trying to preserve himself here and his killing of the officer could be seen as an act of self-preservation. There may be something to that. But the orderly doesn't preserve himself, he dies. And I can't help but feel that both the orderly and the officer need each other. I'm not sure I can prove it, but they do strike me as compliments of each other.

I said that before about preservation or I agreed - not sure now which one. At any rate, I think at the point that the orderly snapped - and we all have a breaking point - he was trying in an illogical way to survive. Sort of a survival of the fittest thing and acting more on instinct, not logic - animal instinct would fit right in with L's ideas. He did not contemplate the consequences of killing the officer; he simply reacted as an 'animal' trying to survive. He dies because there are consequences in doing this. He must now flee from the scene and the crime and the law. It is the old aggression and then the flee instinct that kicks in. It has another phrasing, but I can't think of it right now - too tired.

Another thing I wanted to point out is that as the orderly starts feeling the effects of the heat stroke his senses heighten. Check this out:

Notice how sounds and the sights become so sharp. This is something that Lawrence does on a number of occaisions when a character is dying or undergoing a mentally altering event.

Another thing in this third part is the outstanding prose. This is among some of his best writing:

And this:

I did not bother to requote the book here so check back to see the quotes. I fully agree with what you said. This is interesting to me and I think Lawrence drew deeply from his own experience, coming precariously close to dying. They said, in several of my biographies, that he became more keenly in tune with things - nature, colors, etc; everything was heightened - his senses seemed heightened after his recovery from the pnemonia that nearly killed him. He felt he was a changed person, also. If you have ever experienced a long hospital stay or a long illness you would fully understand this. I had this experience myself after being very ill and nearly died. Afterwards, colors were sharper and more magnificent, than I had remembered them to be. I think this would account for this heightened sense of noticing the nature about him as the orderly experienced it as he lay dying. Also, they say, when person is close to death, they sometimes rally and become more intune just before they die. It may have been like this in Lawrence's mind and he conveyed it so beautifully in these passages.

And finally the two main characters lay together in Part IV in a mortuary as two sides of a coin:

This is a very fitting ending I think. One sort of feels emptied after the whole experience and the sense of futility in all of this violence and death is apparent when reading these closing lines. They are very poignant, don't you think?

[Janine]

Virgil, Before we wrap this up entirely, I wanted to look at the murder scene again, because I felt it was important and actually the climax of the story. I know this is backtracking a little, but I kept wondering if the orderly felt revulsion or guilt for his crime, his loss of control and his deadly actions. Here's the scene:

The spur of the officer caught in a tree-root, he went down backwards with a crash, the middle of his back thudding sickeningly against a sharp-edged tree-base, the pot flying away. And in a second the orderly, with serious, earnest young face, and underlip between his teeth, had got his knee in the officer’s chest and was pressing the chin backward over the farther edge of the tree-stump, pressing, with all his heart behind in a passion of relief, the tension of his wrists exquisite with relief. And with the base of his palms he shoved at the chin, with all his might. And it was pleasant, too, to have that chin, that hard jaw already slightly rough with beard, in his hands. He did not relax one hair’s breadth, but, all the force of all his blood exulting in his thrust, he shoved back the head of the other man, till there was a little “cluck” and a crunching sensation. Then he felt as if his head went to vapour. Heavy convulsions shook the body of the officer, frightening and horrifying the young soldier. Yet it pleased him, too, to repress them. It pleased him to keep his hands pressing back the chin, to feel the chest of the other man yield in expiration to the weight of his strong, young knees, to feel the hard twitchings of the prostrate body jerking his own whole frame, which was pressed down on it.

But it went still. He could look into the nostrils of the other man, the eyes he could scarcely see. How curiously the mouth was pushed out, exaggerating the full lips, and the moustache bristling up from them. Then, with a start, he noticed the nostrils gradually filled with blood. The red brimmed, hesitated, ran over, and went in a thin trickle down the face to the eyes.

Up until here he is acting in a way that will relieve him of his tension and pain and his situation of abuse. He uses specific words and phrases to express this relief such as:
"pressing, with all his heart behind in a passion of relief, the tension of his wrists exquisite with relief."
Twice he uses the work pleased in these passages in that same paragraph:
".....convulsions shook the body of the officer, frightening and horrifying the young soldier. Yet it pleased him, too, to repress them. It pleased him to keep his hands pressing back the chin....."

If you notice he has both frightening and horrifying feelings and yet he is pleased - a definite opposite or a repression of what he is really feeling or will feel when the act is over and the officer is dead.

It shocked and distressed him. Slowly, he got up. The body twitched and sprawled there, inert. He stood and looked at it in silence. It was a pity IT was broken. It represented more than the thing which had kicked and bullied him. He was afraid to look at the eyes. They were hideous now, only the whites showing, and the blood running to them. The face of the orderly was drawn with horror at the sight. Well, it was so. In his heart he was satisfied. He had hated the face of the Captain. It was extinguished now. There was a heavy relief in the orderly’s soul. That was as it should be. But he could not bear to see the long, military body lying broken over the tree-base, the fine fingers crisped. He wanted to hide it away.

This is a very curious line in the above paragraph when referring to the officers dead body:
"It was a pity IT was broken. It represented more than the thing which had kicked and bullied him."
This line is somehow prophetic of the closing last two lines of the story...interesting. Also curious referring now to the dead officer as "IT" and "the thing" - no longer seeing him as a person. Did he ever see him as a person, I wonder.
Here again is mentioned relief:
"There was a heavy relief in the orderly’s soul."
The last two sentences in this paragraph again refer to the fact the young soldier cannot bear to see the "body lying broken" of the officer; he wants now to hide it away, even from his own mind and consciousness forever. The word "broken" is used often and emphasised.

Quickly, busily, he gathered it up and pushed it under the felled tree-trunks, which rested their beautiful, smooth length either end on logs. The face was horrible with blood. He covered it with the helmet. Then he pushed the limbs straight and decent, and brushed the dead leaves off the fine cloth of the uniform. So, it lay quite still in the shadow under there. A little strip of sunshine ran along the breast, from a chink between the logs. The orderly sat by it for a few moments. Here his own life also ended.

Now he hides the body, actually positions it as though it is still alive and sleeping. The curious thing is the next to the last line when he sat by it for a few minutes. The last line is the zinger and I think the climax - "Here his own life also ended". The way this line suddenly presents itself on the page is stark reality and so brilliant on Lawrence's part. The timing is perfect for this line. This line shows to me starkly that violence and actions like these that end in death/murder never have one victim, but claim two. Now the men are one in the crime, their fates sealed. Perhaps similiar to Tess' action in the Hardy novel when she kills Alec and knows from that moment on that her own life is doomed, that she will be hanged and die. In PO there is a oneness of death and quilt and violence, now that the young officer has crossed that moral line; the end also reflects and encompasses this oneness with the communing of the dead in the final scene. The 'two halves of the whole', perhaps? becoming one in death?

[Janine]

Virgil, Please be sure and read my last post. I thought I brought up some good points and wanted to see what you thought. I just finished Chapter two of WIL and this passage really struck me as applying to the idea in this story - The PO:

`No man,' said Birkin, `cuts another man's throat unless he wants to cut it, and unless the other man wants it cutting. This is a complete truth. It takes two people to make a murder: a murderer and a murderee. And a murderee is a man who is murderable. And a man who is murderable is a man who in a profound if hidden lust desires to be murdered.'

Keep in mind that Birkin is a fill-in for Lawrence and his views. Interesting, isn't it? especially if you think of it in relations to The PO.

[Virgil]

I said that before about preservation or I agreed - not sure now which one. At any rate, I think at the point that the orderly snapped - and we all have a breaking point - he was trying in an illogical way to survive. Sort of a survival of the fittest thing and acting more on instinct, not logic - animal instinct would fit right in with L's ideas. He did not contemplate the consequences of killing the officer; he simply reacted as an 'animal' trying to survive. He dies because there are consequences in doing this. He must now flee from the scene and the crime and the law. It is the old aggression and then the flee instinct that kicks in. It has another phrasing, but I can't think of it right now - too tired.

Yes, this naturalist reading is a legitamate reading, although I've always felt that Lawrence was more than a naturalist. He starts there and evolves to more than that. This is early Lawrence, so perhaps you're correct. But the orderly ultimately dies as a consequence of his action; so the survival instinct was wrong.

I did not bother to requote the book here so check back to see the quotes. I fully agree with what you said. This is interesting to me and I think Lawrence drew deeply from his own experience, coming precariously close to dying. They said, in several of my biographies, that he became more keenly in tune with things - nature, colors, etc; everything was heightened - his senses seemed heightened after his recovery from the pnemonia that nearly killed him. He felt he was a changed person, also. If you have ever experienced a long hospital stay or a long illness you would fully understand this. I had this experience myself after being very ill and nearly died. Afterwards, colors were sharper and more magnificent, than I had remembered them to be. I think this would account for this heightened sense of noticing the nature about him as the orderly experienced it as he lay dying. Also, they say, when person is close to death, they sometimes rally and become more intune just before they die. It may have been like this in Lawrence's mind and he conveyed it so beautifully in these passages.

Thanks for that biographical detail. I'm not surprised by it. There are places in L that certain characters sensing abilities are hyper active. I'm particularly recalling the woman in The Women Who Rode Away. We'll have to do that story some day, but it's a long and complicated one.

This is a very fitting ending I think. One sort of feels emptied after the whole experience and the sense of futility in all of this violence and death is apparent when reading these closing lines. They are very poignant, don't you think?

Perfect touch. I'll get to your other post a bit later.

[Janine]

Virgil, I have wanted to check out that story "The Woman Who Rode Away". I had a reference to it in one of my biographies and it made me want to read it again - at least I think I read it already once.
Well I guess that wraps it all up for PO. I agree with what you wrote in your last post, so let's go forward!

To all participants:

I am working on picking next story....it won't be long now.....promise....

[Virgil]

Janine, I was going to reply to your comments on the scene where the orderly kills the officer. Let it suffice to say you are absolutely right on with your observations. There is a psychological satisfaction to the killing that breaks out of the orderly. I had not noiced how often Lawrence used the word "relief" there.

OK, now on to the next story.

[Janine]

Janine, I was going to reply to your comments on the scene where the orderly kills the officer. Let it suffice to say you are absolutely right on with your observations. There is a psychological satisfaction to the killing that breaks out of the orderly. I had not noiced how often Lawrence used the word "relief" there.

OK, now on to the next story.

Virgil, You sure?...because you can still comment further. I am always interested in your insightful comments and I did wonder what you thought of the quote from WIL on murder.
Anyway,I am a bit slow on picking the next story...sorry...I got tied up with so many other things...I will try to post it tomorrow.

[Janine]

Me again - will definitely be posting the story tonight - thanks for everyone's patience! Janine

[Janine]

Ok, I have picked the next story to discuss. It is available on this site under "Prussian Officer and Other Stories" in the D.H.Lawrence section.
The story is:

The Shades of Spring


Basically, this is a story about a young man going back to the place he spend much time (several years back) in his life; indicating a time of youth, early friendships and personal maturing. The place is obviously very nostalgic to him and he apparently has kept up a steady correspondence with an old sweetheart, who he has come with the intention of seeing. He soon meets her intended and later sees the young woman, as well in separate scenes. The story is full of lovely passages about spring and the flowering woodlands and fields, which I think everyone will enjoy; it seemed appropriate for this time of year. The interesting aspects of the story include the rediscovering of a place the man held dear in his heart and the drama that presents itself when recalling his old and complex feelings for his former beloved. The third party, the keeper, and her intended, further complicates his return and the simple plot.

A good one to read if you are not familar with Lawrence - I believe it was written early in his career, but I might be wrong. Also it is quite short this time since Lawrence is being discussed as the June Book Read.

Enjoy reading! Janine
Virgil,I leave this for you to look up, since you has a chronological timetable.