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Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #181
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspirangel View Post
    Hi, just thought you might need to know that the thread you gave for Virgil didnt work ? From where I am anyway - pity cos I wanted to read what he had to say - will go back to the Short Story Thread and see if can find it there ?
    PS Is it appropriate to advertise this Literature Forum on other sites ? I am happy to advertise our upcoming discussion on my MySpace (some Nature/Lawrence enthusiasts on thee !)
    inspirangel, sorry the link did not work. It is found on page one of this thread, so you can easily go there to view what Virgil originally wrote when we started this thread.
    To your PS: I am not even sure if it is totally permissable to post outside links on this site. Rules on here are pretty strict. If you need to ask a question like this about posting on My Space you should email one of the moderators directly, either Logos or Administator. Logos posts the rules from time to time. If you find her somewhere in the forum now, you might see a link to the rule page right above her signature. You should be careful, since breaking the rules can bring about reprimands and/or infractions. Better to ask them directly and be safe. Hope this helps.
    Janine
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #182
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspirangel View Post
    Hi, just thought you might need to know that the thread you gave for Virgil didnt work ? From where I am anyway - pity cos I wanted to read what he had to say - will go back to the Short Story Thread and see if can find it there ?
    PS Is it appropriate to advertise this Literature Forum on other sites ? I am happy to advertise our upcoming discussion on my MySpace (some Nature/Lawrence enthusiasts on thee !)
    Oh I bet the mods and Admin (the owner) woud love free advertisement. I would think that is encouraged but perhaps you might want to PM one of the mods (Logos, for instance) with the question. I'm not sure they read every post.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  3. #183
    dum spiro, spero Nossa's Avatar
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    Okay..I just started reading the story today, and so far so good...I don't know if I'm gonna be able to finish it soon though, cuz I have exams coming up...but I'll try to read as much as I can, and participate in the discussion
    I'm the patron saint of the denial,
    With an angel face and a taste for suicidal.

  4. #184
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Ok, Nossa, we'll start with the discussion tomorrow. Your exams are more important, so study for them.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  5. #185
    dum spiro, spero Nossa's Avatar
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    I'll manage...lol
    I mean I can't study 24/7...I normaly read when I'm tired with studying, so hopefully I'll be able to keep up
    I just wish they were teaching us something by D.H. Lawrence or something, instead of Robinson Crusoe..lol
    I'm the patron saint of the denial,
    With an angel face and a taste for suicidal.

  6. #186
    inspirangel
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    OK - thats fine - I DID wonder !!! Don't want to break any rules ! Havent had time to read the other stories as have also been busy trying to get through Othello - do we need to read these in order to compare ?

  7. #187
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nossa View Post
    I'll manage...lol
    I mean I can't study 24/7...I normaly read when I'm tired with studying, so hopefully I'll be able to keep up
    I just wish they were teaching us something by D.H. Lawrence or something, instead of Robinson Crusoe..lol
    Nossa, you make me laugh Yes, I do agree Lawrence is far more interesting than "Robinson Crusoe".
    You can pop in when you have the time - no pressure here - we usually go at a slow pace, since we also are involved in 'book of the month' and 'Shakespeare play of the month' discussions simulataniously. We can only read and do so much, I agree. I am a slow reader, so I can't overwhelm myself either, which I often do.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  8. #188
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspirangel View Post
    OK - thats fine - I DID wonder !!! Don't want to break any rules ! Havent had time to read the other stories as have also been busy trying to get through Othello - do we need to read these in order to compare ?
    Hi inspirangel,
    Yes, always best to check with the mods...safer that way. You only need to read one story at a time. We all do it that way. We don't know which one is going to be discussed next, anyway. Better to wait. Concentrate for now on "The Prussian Officer". Plenty there to discuss. Monday should kick off the discussion. I am looking forward to it. I always learn so much during these sessions. See you then.

    PS: were you able to view page one and Virgil's short story intro?
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  9. #189
    Shinigami wannabe malwethien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspirangel View Post
    Your location sounds a bit similar to mine !! I love your quote and reference to Robert Graves !! Glad to have found this site, now wheres that link to the Prussian Officer .....................
    Thanks Inspirinangel I would give anything to be on top of the moors...sounds very "wuthering heights"

    I like Robert Graves, especially that poem of his...

    She tells her love while half asleep,
    In the dark hours,
    With half-words whispered low:
    As Earth stirs in her winter sleep
    And puts out grass and flowers
    Despite the snow,
    Despite the falling snow.

    ANYWAY......on with the Lawrence / Prussian Officer discussion
    "Deep in the fundamental heart of mind and universe...there is a reason."

    - Douglas Adams

  10. #190
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malwethien View Post
    Thanks Inspirinangel I would give anything to be on top of the moors...sounds very "wuthering heights"

    I like Robert Graves, especially that poem of his...

    She tells her love while half asleep,
    In the dark hours,
    With half-words whispered low:
    As Earth stirs in her winter sleep
    And puts out grass and flowers
    Despite the snow,
    Despite the falling snow.

    ANYWAY......on with the Lawrence / Prussian Officer discussion
    Hi malwethien, that Graves poem is lovely. I like him, also. I second that about the moors. My someday dream is to go to England.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  11. #191
    inspirangel
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    Yes, I was able to, thank-you !!

  12. #192
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspirangel View Post
    Yes, I was able to, thank-you !!
    Oh good, inspirangel!
    Virgil said he would post something tonight. He will write a brief summary, minus ending. Then hopefully he will post some passages to get started.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  13. #193
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    OK, lets start the discussion of "The Prussian Officer." Let me start with a summary like I have with the other stories. I WON'T GIVE THE ENDING AWAY.

    The story is divided into four parts by Lawrence. It is the story of an officer and his orderly and the antagonism between them that develops. For whatever unexplained reason the two grow to hate each other. Or is that true; is it unexplained? Perhaps that needs a discussion. The story starts with the Officer leading his men on practice maneuvers, but in Part I the story shifts into an expository mode where the relationship between the officer and the orderly are delineated. We learn their backgound and natures and the evolution of their relationship. The bulk of the story in in Part I. Part II resumes the the narrative by going back to the manuevers and when the Officer contiues his abuse of the orderly, the orderly snaps and kills the Officer. In Part III we have the orderly escaping and running into the woods and trying to survive. I won't give away the climax, but Part IV ends the escape.

    Really the action is rather simple. The interest of the story is the psychological drama between the officer and the orderly, the tension between the two, and the ultimate climax.

    One way to look at the two is to delineate the differences. Let me start by listing words assciated with each.

    Captain:
    Horseback, tall, grey, reddish-brown, aristocratic, haughty, never married, impersonal, devil when roused, temper, abhors contact, blue eyes, rigid.

    Orderly:
    Youth, life through senses, sureness, of the moment, medium height, dark, physical contact, dark eyes, submissive.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  14. #194
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    I like the points that you Virgil has outlined in his summary and especially the breakdown of key words in each character and his characterization.

    Below, I listed the opening paragraphs, introducing us, basically, to the the setting/tone of the story and the orderly, himself. The story starts, actually at a point, that is later in time, and resumed towards the end of part II, picking up from where it leaves off. In other words, this story is not told in a realistic time sequence. I find this 'device' interesting and it is much like the current trend in films; to tell the story out of sequence, and then have it all come together at the end. I don't know if this is considered, in any way, a 'frame-story' or similar to one. Perhaps others may have a notion/answer on this idea.

    So here are the first 3 paragraphs:

    They had marched more than thirty kilometres since dawn, along the white, hot road where occasional thickets of trees threw a moment of shade, then out into the glare again. On either hand, the valley, wide and shallow, glittered with heat; dark green patches of rye, pale young corn, fallow and meadow and black pine woods spread in a dull, hot diagram under a glistening sky. But right in front the mountains ranged across, pale blue and very still, snow gleaming gently out of the deep atmosphere. And towards the mountains, on and on, the regiment marched between the rye fields and the meadows, between the scraggy fruit trees set regularly on either side the high road. The burnished, dark green rye threw off a suffocating heat, the mountains drew gradually nearer and more distinct. While the feet of the soldiers grew hotter, sweat ran through their hair under their helmets, and their knapsacks could burn no more in contact with their shoulders, but seemed instead to give off a cold, prickly sensation.
    In first part of this paragraph there is a liberal use of words/phrases referring to heat...white, hot, glare, glittered with heat, scaggly, burnished, dull, hot diagram, etc. Midway through this paragraph the vision changes suddenly to encompass or view ahead and higher up "mountains ranged across, pale blue" and "still, snow gleaming"....all words that evoke coolness, water. Then the paragraph (next statement) returns us again to words of heat...hotter, sweat, burn. The last line is of particular interest to me, seeming to encompass the two contrasting modes of temperature - "While the feet of the soldiers grew hotter, sweat ran through their hair under their helmets, and their knapsacks could burn no more in contact with their shoulders, but seemed instead to give off a cold, prickly sensation." So here we have the words hotter, sweat, burn and yet the sweat has created a cooling sensation in the final 3 words. The contrast is complete and brilliantly devised to set our stage to present the basic theme of the story - a story of stark contrasts.

    He walked on and on in silence, staring at the mountains ahead, that rose sheer out of the land, and stood fold behind fold, half earth, half heaven, the heaven, the barrier with slits of soft snow, in the pale, bluish peaks.
    I particularly like the references here to the land, the half earth the half heaven and the heaven. To me this indicates a definite progression upward and fortells something profound and heavenly to come later in the story. Again the "snow" and "bluish peaks" evoke a heavenly realm to be longed for and a goal to march towards.

    He could now walk almost without pain. At the start, he had determined not to limp. It had made him sick to take the first steps, and during the first mile or so, he had compressed his breath, and the cold drops of sweat had stood on his forehead. But he had walked it off. What were they after all but bruises! He had looked at them, as he was getting up: deep bruises on the backs of his thighs. And since he had made his first step in the morning, he had been conscious of them, till now he had a tight, hot place in his chest, with suppressing the pain, and holding himself in. There seemed no air when he breathed. But he walked almost lightly.
    This third paragraph introduces us to the orderly in a strange way, not at his best, but rather a man dealing with a great amount of pain and struggle. Also, we learn early on that he is a man of forbearance and is determined to ignore the pain and not let it stop him from his march. In some ways it shows a stoic bravery and a stubborn quality. It also shows that he 'holds things in' and keeps things private and to himself. This one short paragraph tells much cleverly about the orderly. Again the word "hot' is mentioned as "a place in his chest". I believe this was lawrence's way to emphasis the heat and associate it with the pain he is feeling. It is now evident that the heat represents pain and the cold some kind of relief/hope of escape from pain. I think, as the story progresses, this will take on much deeper significance and become more evident and prominent in the theme and role of the contrasts.

    I hope this gives people some ideas and they will add to my remarks with their own ideas on the text.
    Last edited by Janine; 05-01-2007 at 04:22 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  15. #195
    inspirangel
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    The Low Ebb of The Orderly

    In some ways, this is a difficult story to comment upon in a chronological way, as interestingly outlined by Virgil and Janine, some of the action is out of sequence. However, without yet referring to the physical state the orderly finds himself in, I wonder whether the psychological drama is the only issue, or rather, whether it can be isolated from mans instinct for self-preservation. Here we see a man, normally stoic and uncomplaining in character, who is unwell and in pain both physically and mentally, although Lawrence does not yet give us any inkling of his mental state - other than to suggest that he is exercising enormous self-control in order to deal with some physical trauma, the cause as yet unexplained. Added to that is the heat, so vividly portrayed by the words white and hot in the same sentence and by the passage outlined by Janine. The story starts out with an atmosphere of despair, and we get the feeling that ,indeed, there will be no let-up!! From a womans point of view, feelings of deep concern are evoked and empathy with the character is established from the first lines. But then , Lawrence was ever able to commune at a deep level, with women !

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