Virgil, you really made me laugh, too! you always do!!!
I just 'ooked' somethings up, and also took everyone's recent posts and put them into this one to answer:
Quotes by Antiquarian
Yes, the story is complex; all of Lawrence’s stories have proved to be so far, at least the ones we have discussed. Actually, Antiquarian, when I first read over this story, looking for possible stories to pick for discussion, this one did not impress me as much as it does now. Of course, by now I have read it at least 3 or 4 times and parts of it, as I went along in much closer scrutiny. It does help to look at parts of the story separate from the whole and see what might be lurking there, just beneath the surface. It is interesting, isn’t it? We have all learned so much from these discussions and this thread. We would all get A’s on a final exam! I am so glad you have been enjoying it. I knew you would.Good observation, Virgil. It'll be interesting going back to see how both are described. This story is so much more complex that I first gave it credit for being, and I'm glad.
Thanks, Antiquarian, I slept well and went to bed a tad earlier than I have been; I even turned the computer off earlier. I think this is what I need to do every night, actually. However, I woke up suddenly at 9 and when I got back into bed my left leg is aching something fierce - probably a flairup of sciatica. It is some better but it is damp out today and miserable here - rainy. Hope it is better there and you have a great weekend!Thank you, Janine. I hope we're both feeling terrific the whole weekend!
Quotes by Virgil
I can now that that is one possibility…two women and the subconscious/conscious idea. It might also be a man and woman statue – he representing the man. I don’t know but I wish Mr. L had given us a bit more information on that.The nude statue of Venus is clearly associated with the corsetless Winifred. Lawrence never mentions what the other statue is like. Is it an exact replica? He calls one "the Venus" which implies the other is not. But clearly there are two statues, like there are two women in his subconscious. But it's almost as if the other statue goes out of Coutt's consciousness. Just like Connie, perhaps?
Quote by Antiquarian
Oh, I did go back to read that passage. It just mentions them and that one is “leaned slightly forward”…I wonder if by not mentioning the one descriptively Lawrence is just directing our attention to one of the statues – the one that stands out. Maybe the other means nothing actually. If he had wanted it to mean anything wouldn’t he have told us what who that one represented or if it were the same, unless in his eyes pair means totally matching or a duplicate of each other. I don’t know if we can be totally certain of the full meaning but it is fun to derive ones own personal take on it.I would say that's a very good assumption, Virgil. That Connie leaves Coutts' consciousness when Winifred begins to enchant him. I hadn't remembered that the second statue was not described. Thanks for reposting that.
Quote by Dark Muse:
Dark Muse, This is an interesting ‘take’ on the idea also; and the pedestal is mentioned specifically so this could suggest the idea you propose. Also, Coutts might view Winifred as cold like alabaster; we certainly know she was described as white and linked with the cold moon image of whiteness and of mystery.“Both were nude figures. They glistened under the side lamps, rose clean and distinct from their pedestals.”
Yes, that is true, we are told that there are two nude figures but we are given no account of the second one, whatever it may be. It seems the second statue would be Connie.
As it says "they rose distinct from thier pedastals"
Perhaps this also means they are distinct from each other, being very different, the way Connie is quite distinct from Winni
Also interesting use of the word "pedastal"
In some regards, Coutts does put both women on a pedastal, but in very different ways.
DM, I think I know the exact passage you will be referring to later. Is it the one about Connie? I was reviewing that part of the story the other night and realized it does reveal more about Connie and their relationship, than I had previously observed. That one paragraph nicely sums up the way things are between them, which reveals the problem with their relationship, I believe. I won't mention it until you do when we get to that part, if that is what you are referring to.
Yes, I would agree that Coutts most definitely puts Connie on a pedestal. I don’t know if I entirely agree that he puts Winifred on one. I feel rather the opposite Winifred puts herself on the pedestal and wishes Coutts to worship her; and Coutts wishes take her down from that pedestal and treat her as a woman, take her into the natural world of the body and blood; the sexual human union; as opposed to the union of a ‘worshipping knight to a goddess’, as he interacts with Connie.
Quote by Virgil
Quark, What Virgil posted seems to make sense. I think too, it relates to images reflected, and the crystal ball idea, that Coutts brings up later on, when he is at Winifred’s house. To Coutts as well, Winifred never makes herself quite 'real' to him in the flesh and blood sense, so she is a mere reflection of what he would like her to be towards him, in a sense. Also, the mirror could be a mirror to reflect Coutt's 'conscience' that Coutts is constantly holding within his mind, knowing he is self-examining and seeing his own temptation and wrong-doing, as he goes along. Very near the end of the story, Coutts blurts out, (in his mind) “to the other woman he was false”….this would be the mirror reflecting back the image of himself, the man he knows to be guilty of deception, in the his final observation (of himself).Mirror seems to be associated with the moon and the night and water. All symbols of the female.
Oops, I see more posts....*sigh*...*sigh* and I thought I was caught up. You must all be online now. I have some definitions/background here in a book, for Venus and for Apollo, so if you let me copy them from my astrology/mythology book I will type them now. Be patient and I will be back shortly with that info in detail.