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Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #3166
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    NOTIFICATION
    We have not start discussing the real story yet - the first part of the story will be posted on Saturday Evening (Janine time-zone ).
    For the introduction to the story, see this post
    Janine's time zone ...now that could be anywhere for 10PM to wee hours of Sunday! As most know here, Janine is a nite owl. Sapphire - you asked my hours of operation in your message post - answer: anytime at all but usually late in the evening. I am just waking up then! I am much more creative at night and more productive; or at least, I used to be.

    Incredible - you indepth study of the commentary. Geez, usually no one reads the links I provide. Now I am anxious to read the entire commentary, as well. One comment - Lawrence often rewrote his stories and even his novels. Lady Chatterly has at least 3 versions. We could either say that Lawrence was never satisfied and changable or that he was versatile. One thing for certain, he was prolithic. The man wrote a ton of stuff; of which I am just now discovering even more. Who knows how much more he may have written that did indeed end up at the bottom of the sea. Anyway, salt water preserves certain things so maybe years from now they will bring up more of Lawrence's brilliant gems. And by the way, Sapphire, you are a 'gem'....I mean that, no pun intended! I just might have to sign you on as my assistent in posting stories. See what you started.

    Excellent commentary on the commentary and well written! Good job!!! with everything you observed, even though I have not yet read the commentary paper. Way to go - let's celebrate

    PS: thanks for not using the blue!
    Last edited by Janine; 08-06-2010 at 07:19 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #3167
    Dreaming away Sapphire's Avatar
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    Thank you for your kind words And sure, always in for a celebration
    Quote Originally Posted by Janine
    Lawrence often rewrote his stories and even his novels. Lady Chatterly has at least 3 versions. We could either say that Lawrence was never satisfied and changable or that he was versatile. One thing for certain, he was prolithic.
    I had to google "prolithic" and I have to say: I am not sure what it means - And yes, I also tried the good old dictionary Is it the words "lit(h)erature" and "prolific" thrown together? I know it is a long shot, but in that context I can imagine it means "productive writer"

    As for his other brilliant gems, I guess that is a perfect excuse to learn to dive Diving for hidden Lawrence treasures... Now the only question is - where did he throw them overboard? For then we can trace back the streams and maybe we could minimize the search grid
    It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
    Wolfsheim - It is not too late

  3. #3168
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    NOTIFICATION
    We have not start discussing the real story yet - the first part of the story will be posted on Saturday Evening (Janine time-zone ).
    For the introduction to the story, see this post
    Oh, I saw the intro a couple of pages back and thought I was already late to the discussion. Looks like I'm early. I'll just wait until later on in Janine Stardard Time.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  4. #3169
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    Thank you for your kind words And sure, always in for a celebration

    I had to google "prolithic" and I have to say: I am not sure what it means - And yes, I also tried the good old dictionary Is it the words "lit(h)erature" and "prolific" thrown together? I know it is a long shot, but in that context I can imagine it means "productive writer"

    As for his other brilliant gems, I guess that is a perfect excuse to learn to dive Diving for hidden Lawrence treasures... Now the only question is - where did he throw them overboard? For then we can trace back the streams and maybe we could minimize the search grid
    hahaha....,most likely I spelled it wrong. Why doesn't Litnet have 'spell check' ? grrrr. You will learn Janine's weak point is her spelling. It does mean productive and I don't think it has to necessarily apply to authors. It would apply to any accomplishment. Perhaps, it would apply to the arts which encompass many accomplishments.

    Yes, let's all take diving lessons. We could comb the various oceans where Lawrence hung out; or we could search the hills of New Mexico and Mexico, the country. Perhaps someone in Australia is hording his works silently as we speak. They need to share these Lawrence tidbits with us now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Oh, I saw the intro a couple of pages back and thought I was already late to the discussion. Looks like I'm early. I'll just wait until later on in Janine Stardard Time.
    Hi Quark! Not too late at all. We have some people dragging their heels. Hopefully, by this weekend they will have started the story, at least. To be honest, I have not read anymore since I started it a week ago; but then again I did read it many times prior. I am just so forgetful about the stories and the plots or meanings. I have to reread all over each time. I could just post parts (intend to start doing that later tonight), and then we can all read along at the same pace. So if you haven't read the entire story yet, it's no big deal. We can read and discuss it together. What do you think of that idea anyway?

    hahah....Janine Standard Time....did you mean to type that as 'Stardard' Time? If so, that is rather funny!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  5. #3170
    Dreaming away Sapphire's Avatar
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    No worries. I think everybody makes a mistake every now and then - especially while typing - though I also have it while writing, as I think about the next word to write already and somehow manage to combine them It is funny when one creates new words that way though
    New Mexico, Mexico, Australia... I wouldn't mind visiting those places .

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine to Quark
    So if you haven't read the entire story yet, it's no big deal. We can read and discuss it together.
    I myself think that is quite possible, but I would prefer if everybody had read it at least once - so I can not spoil the ending . I am a bit afraid that I could give it away I really do not want to spoil the story for anybody! I can get carried away a bit sometimes
    It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
    Wolfsheim - It is not too late

  6. #3171
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    No worries. I think everybody makes a mistake every now and then - especially while typing - though I also have it while writing, as I think about the next word to write already and somehow manage to combine them It is funny when one creates new words that way though
    New Mexico, Mexico, Australia... I wouldn't mind visiting those places .


    I myself think that is quite possible, but I would prefer if everybody had read it at least once - so I can not spoil the ending . I am a bit afraid that I could give it away I really do not want to spoil the story for anybody! I can get carried away a bit sometimes
    That's true...some people may be blabber-mouths, like me. Anyway, best plan is for everyone to read it once and then we can begin. Perhaps I should post that text tomorrow; what does everyone think? Personally I have some things to do today out and I might be tired when I get home, although what is there to copying and pasting a bunch of text? Let me know, Sapphire, what you think? Can you wait until tomorrow; afterall by the time I do post it you are already one half a day ahead of me in time.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  7. #3172
    Dreaming away Sapphire's Avatar
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    I've waited this long - what's another day If it is more convenient for you, please: just do it when you are ready. Lets give everybody another day to read this story.

    For the meantime: Johnny Logan - What's another year I didn't know that was a Eurovision song! One learns something every day...
    It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
    Wolfsheim - It is not too late

  8. #3173
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    I've waited this long - what's another day If it is more convenient for you, please: just do it when you are ready. Lets give everybody another day to read this story.

    For the meantime: Johnny Logan - What's another year I didn't know that was a Eurovision song! One learns something every day...
    I promise - it won't be another year!....Hey, isn't it night time where you live? I still haven't figured out the time difference.

    Hey, nice song. I never heard it but like it very much!

    Here's the beginning section of the text to study and begin our discussion:

    England, My England

    He was working on the edge of the common, beyond the small brook that ran in the dip at the bottom of the garden, carrying the garden path in continuation from the plank bridge on to the common. He had cut the rough turf and bracken, leaving the grey, dryish soil bare. But he was worried because he could not get the path straight, there was a pleat between his brows. He had set up his sticks, and taken the sights between the big pine trees, but for some reason everything seemed wrong. He looked again, straining his keen blue eyes, that had a touch of the Viking in them, through the shadowy pine trees as through a doorway, at the green-grassed garden-path rising from the shadow of alders by the log bridge up to the sunlit flowers. Tall white and purple columbines, and the butt-end of the old Hampshire cottage that crouched near the earth amid flowers, blossoming in the bit of shaggy wildness round about.

    There was a sound of children's voices calling and talking: high, childish, girlish voices, slightly didactic and tinged with domineering: 'If you don't come quick, nurse, I shall run out there to where there are snakes.' And nobody had the sangfroid to reply: 'Run then, little fool.' It was always, 'No, darling. Very well, darling. In a moment, darling. Darling, you must be patient.'

    His heart was hard with disillusion: a continual gnawing and resistance. But he worked on. What was there to do but submit!

    The sunlight blazed down upon the earth, there was a vividness of flamy vegetation, of fierce seclusion amid the savage peace of the commons. Strange how the savage England lingers in patches: as here, amid these shaggy gorse commons, and marshy, snake infested places near the foot of the south downs. The spirit of place lingering on primeval, as when the Saxons came, so long ago.

    Ah, how he had loved it! The green garden path, the tufts of flowers, purple and white columbines, and great oriental red poppies with their black chaps and mulleins tall and yellow, this flamy garden which had been a garden for a thousand years, scooped out in the little hollow among the snake-infested commons. He had made it flame with flowers, in a sun cup under its hedges and trees. So old, so old a place! And yet he had re-created it.

    The timbered cottage with its sloping, cloak-like roof was old and forgotten. It belonged to the old England of hamlets and yeomen. Lost all alone on the edge of the common, at the end of a wide, grassy, briar-entangled lane shaded with oak, it had never known the world of today. Not till Egbert came with his bride. And he had come to fill it with flowers.

    The house was ancient and very uncomfortable. But he did not want to alter it. Ah, marvelous to sit there in the wide, black, time-old chimney, at night when the wind roared overhead, and the wood which he had chopped himself sputtered on the hearth! Himself on one side the angle, and Winifred on the other.

    Ah, how he had wanted her: Winifred! She was young and beautiful and strong with life, like a flame in sunshine. She moved with a slow grace of energy like a blossoming, red-flowered bush in motion. She, too, seemed to come out of the old England, ruddy, strong, with a certain crude, passionate quiescence and a hawthorn robustness. And he, he was tall and slim and agile, like an English archer with his long supple legs and fine movements. Her hair was nut-brown and all in energic curls and tendrils. Her eyes were nut-brown, too, like a robin's for brightness. And he was white-skinned with fine, silky hair that had darkened from fair, and a slightly arched nose of an old country family. They were a beautiful couple.

    The house was Winifred's. Her father was a man of energy, too. He had come from the north poor. Now he was moderately rich. He had bought this fair stretch of inexpensive land, down in Hampshire. Not far from the tiny church of the almost extinct hamlet stood his own house, a commodious old farmhouse standing back from the road across a bare grassed yard. On one side of this quadrangle was the long, long barn or shed which he had made into a cottage for his youngest daughter Priscilla. One saw little blue-and-white check curtains at the long windows, and inside, overhead, the grand old timbers of the high-pitched shed. This was Prissy's house. Fifty yards away was the pretty little new cottage which he had built for his daughter Magdalen, with the vegetable garden stretching away to the oak copse. And then away beyond the lawns and rose trees of the house-garden went the track across a shaggy, wild grass space, towards the ridge of tall black pines that grew on a dyke-bank, through the pines and above the sloping little bog, under the wide, desolate oak trees, till there was Winifred's cottage crouching unexpectedly in front, so much alone, and so primitive.

    It was Winifred's own house, and the gardens and the bit of common and the boggy slope were hers: her tiny domain. She had married just at the time when her father had bought the estate, about ten years before the war, so she had been able to come to Egbert with this for a marriage portion. And who was more delighted, he or she, it would be hard to say. She was only twenty at the time, and he was only twenty-one. He had about a hundred and fifty pounds a year of his own--and nothing else but his very considerable personal attractions. He had no profession: he earned nothing. But he talked of literature and music, he had a passion for old folk-music, collecting folk-songs and folk-dances, studying the Morris-dance and the old customs. Of course in time he would make money in these ways.
    If you haven't read the story yet, don't panic. We can take this slowly. I am sure it will take longer than a month to discuss this story; since it is a longer story to begin with.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  9. #3174
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Oh great, I just finished the story moments ago. I found it fascinating. I didn't remember a thing of it and it felt fresh from the beginning, though I thought I knew how it would end. There is lots to talk about. I certainly will have to read it again.

    Now I have a question, especially to anyone joiniung this discussion who is British. What exactly is a "common"? Lawrence uses the word twice in that very first sentence. It also recurs throughout. I assume it's some sort of public property, but somehow I feel I'm missing a nuance of the word.

    I know some joked about this in earlier posts but it's definitely relevant and the core of the story:
    There was a sound of children's voices calling and talking: high, childish, girlish voices, slightly didactic and tinged with domineering: 'If you don't come quick, nurse, I shall run out there to where there are snakes.' And nobody had the sangfroid to reply: 'Run then, little fool.' It was always, 'No, darling. Very well, darling. In a moment, darling. Darling, you must be patient.'

    His heart was hard with disillusion: a continual gnawing and resistance. But he worked on. What was there to do but submit!
    This is the thematic link between the first two thirds of the story and the last third. Yes, this will be Lawrence at his anti-feminist best.

    In the rest of that passage, Lawrence establishes a pre-lapsarian Eden-esk setting. That snake is important!
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  10. #3175
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Oh great, I just finished the story moments ago. I found it fascinating. I didn't remember a thing of it and it felt fresh from the beginning, though I thought I knew how it would end. There is lots to talk about. I certainly will have to read it again.

    Now I have a question, especially to anyone joiniung this discussion who is British. What exactly is a "common"? Lawrence uses the word twice in that very first sentence. It also recurs throughout. I assume it's some sort of public property, but somehow I feel I'm missing a nuance of the word.

    I know some joked about this in earlier posts but it's definitely relevant and the core of the story:


    This is the thematic link between the first two thirds of the story and the last third. Yes, this will be Lawrence at his anti-feminist best.

    In the rest of that passage, Lawrence establishes a pre-lapsarian Eden-esk setting. That snake is important!
    Glad you liked the story, Virgil. Good on your commentary; but you jumped a little ahead. I knew when the snake was mentioned the tone of the story began to change so I didn't include that in the first section of text. I agree with what you said though. I hope we can just discuss the beginning first. I also thought the snake was vitally important. Right off, I thought of L's famous 'snake' poem. I should post that, when we get to that part. Also, snakes appear so often in L's works. We have run into them quite a bit on this very thread.

    Hummm...if you look up 'common' online, doesn't it give you the British meaning. I just took it as an expanse of land. I will look in my home dictionary which contains British meanings as well as American English.

    Ah...on Wikipedia it says this about 'common':

    Common land (a common) is land owned collectively or by one person, but over which other people have certain traditional rights, such as to allow their livestock to graze upon it, to collect firewood, or to cut turf for fuel.[1] By extension, the term "commons" has come to be applied to other resources which a community has rights or access to. The older texts use the word "common" to denote any such right, but more modern usage is to refer to particular rights of common, and to reserve the name "common" for the land over which the rights are exercised.
    Last edited by Janine; 08-08-2010 at 06:04 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  11. #3176
    Dreaming away Sapphire's Avatar
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    Wow, that's a big part of the story indeed And here I was, thinking we might get only the first paragraph or something

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil
    I assume it's some sort of public property, but somehow I feel I'm missing a nuance of the word.
    Janine, thank you for quoting wikipedia (I need a wikipedia smiley! ). I think the importance of "common" in this story, is that the house and the garden is owned by the Marshall, but the common "beyond the brook at the bottom of the garden" is not their property anymore. It is the part where Egbert shouldn't try to cultivate anymore - where the flowers grow on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Story
    these shaggy gorse commons
    It is part of the savage England

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil
    This is the thematic link between the first two thirds of the story and the last third.
    I do feel this thematic link, but I can not put it in words.
    You call it anti-feministic, but I did not read the story that way. I do have to admit that for this particular part my eyes fell on "girlish voices, slightly didactic and tinged with domineering" and they started to roll . But on second thought, would Egbert not be just as annoyed if he had 3 boys who were behaving like that? Or is it rather the way Winifred and the Nurse deal with it, the way they raise the children which is anti-feministic?
    The line "what was there to do but submit" really intrigues me. There is a lot he can do, but submit! Egbert does not make a good impression in this first part, not at all But it does point out how he stands in live: no active interference. Though on the other hand, he does not submit in getting a job - so he does not submit there. Comming to think of it, he never really submits... he just goes his own way and let others go theirs, and while his way collides with others he refuses to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil
    In the rest of that passage, Lawrence establishes a pre-lapsarian Eden-esk setting. That snake is important!
    Yes, it seems like Eden, doesn't it? A dark Eden though The fact that the place is snake-infested is point out over and over again. And indeed, the snake is important. But not as important as I thought it would be

    My next post will be a commentary on the part of the story Janine posted. Give me some time though - I've got a lot of things jumping through my mind and a bit of a hard time putting it into words

    The first paragraph [He was working… wildness round about] tells a lot.

    First, it gives the impression that “he” is working hard. The goal is clear: carry the garden path in continuation from the garden over the plank bridge on to the common. He has been busy Then, we read that “he” is worried. He thinks the job might not be well done.
    No worries we think, just start all over again. But the point is, he did all according to plan, he set up his sticks and all – it did not work, it should have worked!
    So the reader is left with the question: will he try again, will he start all over again? Or will he just do an half-*** job?

    Further, we read about his eyes. I think one could write an essay about Lawrence’s use of eye-colour in his stories It might be interesting to know what kind of characters he gives blue eyes, and what kind brown. I do not think he ever gave one green eyes – but do correct me when I’m wrong – I would be delighted . Any way, the “he” character has blue eyes,
    Quote Originally Posted by story
    that had a touch of the Viking in them
    As England and heritage/breeding is quite important in this story, this probably means that “he” is a descendant of the Vikings. Later on in the story, both Saxons and Normans are named. So maybe it is time for a little history?!
    As far as I can figure out, the Saxons were a confederation of Old-Germanic tribes which conquered England and merged with the Angles and Jutes and Frisians () to become Anglo-Saxons. These were dominant in England until the Norman Conquest in 1066. And these Normans were descended form Viking conquerors in France, Normandy. So, by having a touch of a Viking in him, he might be related to the Normans – NOT the Saxons. Or well, maybe them too (other line of breeding) And it might also be that the Vikings also had left their DNA in the Anglo-Saxons, I know they did so in the Frisians So all in all, this history lesson does not learn us that much, just that he is portrayed as coming from a strong heritage.
    Which is strange, for I myself do not see a Viking concerning himself with a garden :no: Very prejudice, I know – but the word Viking brings to my mind a strong warrior, and quite a brutish one for that matter. Nothing like Egbert… Except for the eyes No gateways to the soul this time…

    While the reader is wondering about this all, the countryside is being described All those wonderful flowers But surrounded by shaggy wilderness… there is bound to be trouble! Especially as Egbert does not seem very capable of taming the garden…

    I really try to be as brief as I can… really I think I'll stop here for today or I'll overflow the thread
    It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
    Wolfsheim - It is not too late

  12. #3177
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Sapphire, keep on writing. I am loving it; I am totally captivated. Of course, your pages might turn over and then others won't read what you have so carefully analysised and written. Good job and I especially like the contrast of the weedy 'uncontrolled' part of the common to the structured English garden. I wonder if Egbert is a bit a perfectionist and control freak. I think he can't have control over his family so he transfers that to his garden. The idea of planning the path and then not being able to have it just as he envisions it says much about his character. Perhaps, he is an idealist, much like the author. Bye the way, Lawrence was known by Bert in his youthful years. See any connection?
    Thank you - you have given me a lot to think about. I will go and review that part of the text today more clearly myself.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  13. #3178
    If grace is an ocean... grace86's Avatar
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    Sorry for the delay, I won't be able to start reading it until this afternoon, I'll join in and read up on the posts when I do finish!
    "So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss, and my heart turns violently inside of my chest, I don't have time to maintain these regrets, when I think about, the way....He loves us..."


    http://youtube.com/watch?v=5xXowT4eJjY

  14. #3179
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grace86 View Post
    Sorry for the delay, I won't be able to start reading it until this afternoon, I'll join in and read up on the posts when I do finish!
    You are fine; not late at all. We barely scratched the surface so far. Grace, I am so glad you will take part. I have missed you. It will be fun. We have a good group here...a few more told me they will be joining us. Enjoy your reading. J
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  15. #3180
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    Janine, thank you for quoting wikipedia (I need a wikipedia smiley! ). I think the importance of "common" in this story, is that the house and the garden is owned by the Marshall, but the common "beyond the brook at the bottom of the garden" is not their property anymore. It is the part where Egbert shouldn't try to cultivate anymore - where the flowers grow on their own.

    It is part of the savage England
    Yes, I guess so. I can't help but feel that there is a suggestion of socialism in there. Afterall, it would contrast with the Marshall's wealth. For people's information, Lawrence was not enamored with socialism, but he disliked capitalism too. He believed in a sort of natural inheretance to land, as if human constructs can't define ownership. It's part of his primitivism, and I do think he's suggesting something like that with the "commons."

    I do feel this thematic link, but I can not put it in words.
    You call it anti-feministic, but I did not read the story that way. I do have to admit that for this particular part my eyes fell on "girlish voices, slightly didactic and tinged with domineering" and they started to roll . But on second thought, would Egbert not be just as annoyed if he had 3 boys who were behaving like that? Or is it rather the way Winifred and the Nurse deal with it, the way they raise the children which is anti-feministic?
    Ah, I will put it into words by the end of our discussion.

    The line "what was there to do but submit" really intrigues me. There is a lot he can do, but submit! Egbert does not make a good impression in this first part, not at all But it does point out how he stands in live: no active interference. Though on the other hand, he does not submit in getting a job - so he does not submit there. Comming to think of it, he never really submits... he just goes his own way and let others go theirs, and while his way collides with others he refuses to change.
    No I have to disagree, I do think he submits. He accepts the Marshall's money and their way of life. And he joining the war is an act of submission, in Lawrence's world view.

    Yes, it seems like Eden, doesn't it? A dark Eden though The fact that the place is snake-infested is point out over and over again. And indeed, the snake is important. But not as important as I thought it would be
    Yes, I think the snakes are part of Eden, just like the Biblical paradise. No, the snakes are important, but not in snake form. We'll get to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire View Post
    The first paragraph [He was working… wildness round about] tells a lot.
    Agreed. This is part of the Eden Lawrence creates at the beginning of the story. The narrative is essentially a fall from grace and the ramifications of the fall.

    Further, we read about his eyes. I think one could write an essay about Lawrence’s use of eye-colour in his stories It might be interesting to know what kind of characters he gives blue eyes, and what kind brown. I do not think he ever gave one green eyes – but do correct me when I’m wrong – I would be delighted . Any way, the “he” character has blue eyes,
    Absolutely siginificant. Blue eyes are a recurring symbol in Lawrence's works. Egbert is Nordic, from the north. Brown is from the south. Lawrence has associations with north and south. Remember the Mareshalls are from the north too but they come south to make their money.

    As England and heritage/breeding is quite important in this story, this probably means that “he” is a descendant of the Vikings. Later on in the story, both Saxons and Normans are named. So maybe it is time for a little history?!
    As far as I can figure out, the Saxons were a confederation of Old-Germanic tribes which conquered England and merged with the Angles and Jutes and Frisians () to become Anglo-Saxons. These were dominant in England until the Norman Conquest in 1066. And these Normans were descended form Viking conquerors in France, Normandy. So, by having a touch of a Viking in him, he might be related to the Normans – NOT the Saxons. Or well, maybe them too (other line of breeding) And it might also be that the Vikings also had left their DNA in the Anglo-Saxons, I know they did so in the Frisians So all in all, this history lesson does not learn us that much, just that he is portrayed as coming from a strong heritage.
    Which is strange, for I myself do not see a Viking concerning himself with a garden :no: Very prejudice, I know – but the word Viking brings to my mind a strong warrior, and quite a brutish one for that matter. Nothing like Egbert… Except for the eyes No gateways to the soul this time…
    Nice history lesson. I think Anglo-Saxon and Vikings are interchangable here - they are of Germanic origins. Egbert is a very old anglo-saxon name. Contrast that with the name "Marshall" which is French and has a military association.

    While the reader is wondering about this all, the countryside is being described All those wonderful flowers But surrounded by shaggy wilderness… there is bound to be trouble! Especially as Egbert does not seem very capable of taming the garden…
    Very pretty flowers and garden description. Lawrence is always great at that.
    Last edited by Virgil; 08-09-2010 at 08:49 PM.
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