Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: The Gospel according to the Wachowski Brothers???

  1. #1
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The little Italy of Dagobah
    Posts
    4,394
    Blog Entries
    1

    Cool The Gospel according to the Wachowski Brothers???

    I was watching the Matrix trilogy over the weekend and had very little sleep going into religion 150 this morning. Well in the middle of class I had this idea about the matrix, it is an extremely faith based movie (from the christian perspective). I will try to explain (but words may fail me, as they so often do...):

    Neo represents Jesus Christ, his dying to save humanity, now it could be argued that he did not infact save humanity but rather a small pocket of humanity (this can be explained as the second coming of christ and the judgement of the human race).
    Another thing is that morpheus could be a 'moses' / 'john the baptist' character, coming befor the lord and spreading the word of his immanent arrival, also his moment of doubt after the prophacy was 'not' fulfilled by the end of the second movie. Now the inhabitants of Zion are obviously the Israelites, where some believe the prophacy and others reject it, even down to the man in charge of Zions law (Naiobies boyfriend, can't remember his name) strongly doubting and even trying to hinder Neo.
    Now here comes in another interesting aspect, the machines assumed that neo would follow the same pattern as the other neos, and that this infact was not the destruction of civilization, however unexpectadly Smith comes back and takes over the world for a period of time (similar to christian teachings in which the world will be enveloped in evil for three days before the final judgement).
    The Marivingian also talks about causality and how it governs the world (the basic for atheistic views) now in the end the idea of causality is thrown out and neo instead of bringing about the same ending as the other 'neos' changes things and ultamitly causes a peace between the humans of Zion and the machines. Now an interesting thing, the machines could be viewed as the divine group, (creating the first matrix to be a utopia, and it failing...the garden of eden), and neo being both man and program (again the jesus christ concept).
    Now also there is some symbolic imagry in the third movie, the shape that neo forms when he plugs into the matrix in machine city, and the cross of light radiating from his core prior to his earthly demise.

    I still have to develop this idea, but it could work I think for a religion paper topic. Any thoughts?

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.

  2. #2
    I once went to a lecture on the "Four Truths of the Matrix" thinking it would be philosophy only to find out it was a "How Christianity relates to the Matrix" lecture instead.

    Basically, yes you're correct in your interpretation. There are a few books out there, or so I hear, on the topic you thought up. Religious imagery is very easy to find in any movie out there since it shoots right into the screen because of popular culture's availability to suggestion.

    Most of what the Matrix was meant to be about was of course taken from Buddhism and reincarnation, if you ever checked out the Matrix's website with material on it. Beyond that though, I always got annoyed when Neo could affect the real world as well as the Matrix itself like a divine being, so you're right on track.

    Edit: Though as far as your title goes, considering one of the Wachowski's is now having a sex change, it doesn't quite fit. heh
    To think is to
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.
    is to distract is to stop is to destroy is to die is to think therefore I am not good enough

  3. #3
    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Stuck inside a cloud
    Posts
    1,405
    Personally, I can only see the relationship clearly in the original movie. The last ones simply lack the necessary coherence for me to understand the references (assuming of course, that they exist), or should I say, to appreciatte them.

    Edit: Though as far as your title goes, considering one of the Wachowski's is now having a sex change, it doesn't quite fit. heh
    Unbelievable!
    Why do people do such things? On the other hand, it sheds some light as to the ramblings of reloaded and revolutions...
    Ningķn hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

  4. #4
    precious... subterranean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    KÝbenhavn for the present
    Posts
    6,514
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by crisaor
    .
    Unbelievable!
    Why do people do such things? On the other hand, it sheds some light as to the ramblings of reloaded and revolutions...

    Personally I don't really feel surprise. And Stan, I think you make a good start . I can't give any opinions since I only saw the third episode and not really "moved" to see the previous two.


    "there are people in the world so
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.
    that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #5
    In an associative sense, Stan, I can see your point, and agree with it to a degree. Metaphors in art, especially in films, I think, can sometimes seem unintended, but I think that contributes to the subjective response to any perception. The greatest metaphor I derive from The Matrix refers to Cartesian existentialism - his morbid "brain in a bottle" theory from his Meditations, thinking that all reality could subsist as fake-generated perceptions, stimulating the sensory cortex (Descartes was an anatomist too) for us to 'see' things without our eyes being open.

    Quote Originally Posted by subterranean
    I can't give any opinions since I only saw the third episode and not really "moved" to see the previous two.
    I entirely understand you here, sub. I intend no offense to any of you, but I actually disliked The Matrix too; I only saw the first, and thought it would speak for the remains.

  6. #6
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The little Italy of Dagobah
    Posts
    4,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    I had an interesting discussion with my prof on the concept, and he talked about the affects of religion, and associated texts, on media. Generally it appears to me that it is hard for western (I use the term loosly) directors, and writers to get away from the 'christian them', but considering how society has been shaped by religiouse texts, ie. the Bibal, it is not to far a stretch to assume that these concepts are being subconsiously absorbed? or are perhaps somewhat universal?

    Also, never checked the websight, should go do that, and I never knew about the sex change op, weird.

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislaw
    but considering how society has been shaped by religiouse texts, ie. the Bibal, it is not to far a stretch to assume that these concepts are being subconsiously absorbed? or are perhaps somewhat universal?
    This fact makes much sense. I have never travelled a great amount, so I cannot claim whether certain beliefs stretch universally, but any shared beliefs, in my opinion, concentrated in one area will result in absorbance, both consciously and subconsciously of surrounding minds. Especially in politics (which this specific topic cannot proceed far, due to forum rules), common religion can shape the sense of law and morals in regard to justice - more nurture than nature (in the nature vs. nurture debate). Without realization of the fact, I think a shared set of morals and concepts, devoid of religion, engenders the culture, for better or worse, and no matter how strong or weak, in which all members contribute and find comfort, even subconsciously, by way of common identification and ethics.

  8. #8
    precious... subterranean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    KÝbenhavn for the present
    Posts
    6,514
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislaw
    I had an interesting discussion with my prof on the concept, and he talked about the affects of religion, and associated texts, on media. Generally it appears to me that it is hard for western (I use the term loosly) directors, and writers to get away from the 'christian them', but considering how society has been shaped by religiouse texts, ie. the Bibal, it is not to far a stretch to assume that these concepts are being subconsiously absorbed? or are perhaps somewhat universal?
    I see your point, but don't they sometimes "expressed" the concepts in the other way around? I mean if, let say the Bible, said that God is good and love humans, or human should love each other etc, the theme/there are scenes in the movie which show the contradictary sitaution with the concepts we found in the religious text. Like how John Doe (the psychopat in Seven) interprets the seven sin and he consider himself the chosen one whom should kill those people that he considered have violated God's laws; or like Tyler Dyrden (spell check) in Fight Club saying that "there's a posibility that God doesn't love us, We're God's unwanted children".
    But interestingly, I don't really see the same thing when we refer to let say movies that related to other teachings beside Christianity, i.e. Islam, Budhism, or Hinduism. In my country (where Islam is the biggest religion), if there's a movie which contain scenes which are contradictary with the teaching, that movie would be banned for sure, with the reason "you cannot play with holy texts".

    And there once this book by a local author. The cover of the book used the symbol of "OHM" means the holy trinity in Hinduism (Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu). The title of the book is Supernova: Akar (means Root). But the Hindu's authority in here reject for such use, cause they think that there's no content of the book which can be related to that symbol. Personally I think there's a connection, which of course relate to the title of the book (Root), and I think there's a spiritual message in the story. In the end the book has to be taken back from the market and re-lauched after the cover has been changed (a beautiful dragon).


    "there are people in the world so
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.
    that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #9
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The little Italy of Dagobah
    Posts
    4,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    That is true, in most 'western' 'pop' cultures it has become very acceptible to question, or even ridicule the main religions.

    For some this seems to work, but personally I think some respect / restraint could be shown, however, I never agree with censorship of literature, If I don't like it then I don't have to read it, yet a little respect is always nice aswell (on both sides of the equation)

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.

  10. #10
    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Stuck inside a cloud
    Posts
    1,405
    Quote Originally Posted by subterranean
    I can't give any opinions since I only saw the third episode and not really "moved" to see the previous two.
    Sub, you really should give the first one a chance, I think you'll like it.
    Ningķn hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

  11. #11
    precious... subterranean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    KÝbenhavn for the present
    Posts
    6,514
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by crisaor
    Sub, you really should give the first one a chance, I think you'll like it.

    Well perhaps I'd give it a try Cris..thank's


    "there are people in the world so
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.
    that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  12. #12
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The little Italy of Dagobah
    Posts
    4,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    T'was better, (cinematically speaking of course)

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.

  13. #13
    precious... subterranean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    KÝbenhavn for the present
    Posts
    6,514
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislaw
    For some this seems to work, but personally I think some respect / restraint could be shown, however, I never agree with censorship of literature, If I don't like it then I don't have to read it, yet a little respect is always nice aswell (on both sides of the equation)
    'Tis of course depends on how society perceive religious issues and values. My country, Indonesia, is a non-secular country where the majority of people still see religion as a sacred thing, which can't be questioned or ridiculed.


    "there are people in the world so
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.
    that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #14
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The little Italy of Dagobah
    Posts
    4,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    Indeed, it is all based on society, and those in power on both sides. Some would call a religious country backwards and unscientific, where as others would praise it for upholding what they percieve to be correct. The same is true of a secular society, where those who do and don't follow a religion look down upon eachother. But the main thing I think is to be accepting, and not biggoted, on either side of the spectrum.

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"
    Link URL:
    Only the registered members can see the Link URLs. Please Login OR Register.

Similar Threads

  1. Four brothers?
    By Greg Marsh in forum The Brothers Karamazov
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-11-2010, 02:27 PM
  2. The Brothers K
    By Molko in forum The Brothers Karamazov
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-04-2009, 05:53 PM
  3. Brothers Karamazov question
    By rojasrod in forum The Brothers Karamazov
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 06:53 PM
  4. Brothers Karamazov
    By Travis Godbold in forum The Brothers Karamazov
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-24-2005, 06:07 PM
  5. Dabel Brothers Adapt Robert Jordan's New Spring: The Novel
    By The_Khan in forum General Literature
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-04-2004, 09:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •