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Thread: Relativity examined

  1. #1
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Relativity examined

    We are relative beings, in that we exist in relation to external factors, such as other people, our environment, our knowledge, the media, etc. Above us are the sun, the sky, the stars, the clouds, ideals, saints, the truth. Below us is the earth, the grass, the rocks, the roots of plants, and air is all around us at all times.

    We are generally taught in this modern society that no one is perfect. But then there are several religions which disagree; they say that Jesus is perfect, that Buddha is perfect, that Allah is perfect, that Krishna is perfect. Some say that there are others who followed these teachers who also became perfect, such as Dostoevsky, Milarepa, or saints in other religions.

    I would like to talk about some ideas, and I will begin with some Buddhist teachings. I will use several examples from Buddhist scriptures. The question for us is that if we exist as relative beings, then what is truth?

    Everyone is searching for God. Some do not know it, but they are. God is the answer to our equation; service to God is service to humanity in a way that awakens its spiritual consciousness.

    In Buddhist scriptures, it says that Buddha is identical to the cosmos, it also says that Buddha is identical to the realm of reality. It says in Buddhist scriptures that you do not need to travel anywhere to see Buddha, you can stay exactly where you are and see Buddha. This is true, although seeing Buddha is not possible unless one is very far advanced.

    Some people think that Buddhists are atheists, but this is not true; a Buddhist would tell you that atheist is an incorrect term to call a person; that no person can be an atheist; to call one such would be false labeling. And secondly, as it is said that Buddha is identical to the realm of reality, it would not make sense to say this; because one form of God is the universe, is reality.

    George Harrison explained in an interview:

    As GOD is unlimited, HE has many Names.
    Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama
    All are KRISHNA, all are ONE.

    We exist in relation to Buddha, as well as to other beings. Buddha is the cosmos, and we are an infinitesimal part and parcel of the cosmos. Buddha is the realm of reality, and we are infinitesimal part of reality. But sometimes we do not feel as enlightened as Buddha? I will explain.

    Reality is the question here, it is one which is not so well understood. Buddha is reality, and we are part of reality; we are part of Buddha. Likewise, Buddha is part of us.

    Buddha is invisible, and reality is also invisible. By logic, it is very simple to say that we exist in reality; but we don't feel like we do, we don't feel enlightened. However if we realized the very simple truth that we exist in relation to God, that we exist to serve God, then we would understand that God is right here with us, always. God, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, is with us at all times, because we are part of Him, and He is part of us. We exist in relation to all of these different elements; but foremost and above all, we exist in relation to God. When a person dies, do they merge into Brahman? Do they become reincarnated? These are questions which can only be answered by the universe, at the time of death. The saints and holy teachers, however, say that if we are God-conscious, then we can experience something greater than simply merging into God's impersonal effulgence, that we can experience God right now.

  2. #2
    Registered User jgweed's Avatar
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    Why is this discussion of oriental religion placed in the philosophy forum?
    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

  3. #3
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    I just really wanted to share my ideas.

    This is philosophy rather than discussion of oriental religion because the topics or subjects are God, the living entity, the nature of the existence of the living entities, the nature of reality, as well as the nature of truth. The realizations I've had about these things gave me great joy and peace, and that's why I wish to share them...

    I guess the main point of what I wish to say is that this is philosophy because it is knowledge in search of the nature of reality.

  4. #4
    Registered User jgweed's Avatar
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    I guess I am far less generous in my conception and definition of philosophy than others. Philosophy is not just about asking questions, but also about the way it goes about thinking about the answers, and the kind of answers it proposes.

    Regards,
    John
    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

  5. #5
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I am not trying to force my views on anyone. I just wanted to share them. I learned many things by revelation and realization, and that is why I am attempting to discuss these philosophical ideas-- however abstract they may seem to normal conception. Everything is connected, and, as it turns out, the world is a perfect whole. The world is not unknowable and philosophy is not out of reach for those who think of themselves as a bit less intelligent or learned. This is why I am giving simple examples of teachings of different traditions, such as teachings concerning reality, consciousness, relativity. We are relative beings, we exist in relation to one another but cosmically, we exist in relation to absolutes.

    Buddha is the cosmos, is the realm of reality. This may seem abstract, but it is true. And it is actually possible to understand this; and though you are dismissive I am not a philanderer. This is not religion, a discussion of such, because it has nothing to with sects. The eternal nature of every living entity is buddha-nature. It is not Buddhism or religion because it is an idea.

    You say it is not philosophy, but it is; it is only not your philosophy. And if you are not interested in it, why, then it is invisible to you, on a different plane. The same for many people I am sure, but for anyone interested in my ideas, they may respond as they choose, and we may discuss.
    Last edited by NikolaiI; 07-28-2008 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User curlyqlink's Avatar
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    Everyone is searching for God.
    I'm not.

    Buddha is identical to the cosmos
    My apologies, I'm trying my best to not be offensive here... but this strikes me as uttely without meaning. Buddha is everything, Buddha is reality, Buddha is invisible. Buddha is also, I'm guessing, Nothing. This is the kind of thing that sounds terribly profound to someone who is in the right frame of mind; unfortunately, it is just hopelessly fuzzy thinking. Might as well say "everything is everything", and be done with it.

    George Harrison explained in an interview:

    As GOD is unlimited, HE has many Names.
    Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama
    All are KRISHNA, all are ONE.
    George Harrison also once said, "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah." He like the other Fab Three was a pop star, a carefully fabricated commercial persona. He has no more and no less credibility as a philosopher than has Britney Spears or Mick Jagger.

  7. #7
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    No offense taken. I just hope you haven't scared off anyone who might have otherwise posted they agree with me. Although not to worry...
    Last edited by NikolaiI; 07-28-2008 at 07:54 PM.

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Above us are the sun....
    In a discussion about relativity, that's a poor start.

    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Everyone is searching for God.
    We've discussed most of this before. You are wrong - some, maybe even most, people are searching for god/s, but by no means all.

    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Some people think that Buddhists are atheists, but this is not true; a Buddhist would tell you that atheist is an incorrect term to call a person; that no person can be an atheist; to call one such would be false labeling.
    Here again, you are simply wrong. I know many Buddhists who call themselves atheists. Are you going to introduce the "no true Scotsman fallacy" by claiming they aren't "real" Buddhists?

    Some Buddhists may agree with you, but many do not. You really do need to separate fact from fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyqlink View Post
    George Harrison also once said, "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah." He like the other Fab Three was a pop star, a carefully fabricated commercial persona. He has no more and no less credibility as a philosopher than has Britney Spears or Mick Jagger.
    Nicely put - although I think I'd sooner listen to Mick than Britney.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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    biting writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
    Nicely put - although I think I'd sooner listen to Mick than Britney.
    I'm not much a Rolling Stones fan, but even I would rather listen to Mick than Britney . I've missed your posts Atheist, welcome back.

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozanny View Post
    I'm not much a Rolling Stones fan, but even I would rather listen to Mick than Britney . I've missed your posts Atheist, welcome back.
    But I haven't been away!

    It's just that I don't often post away from Orwell.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
    But I haven't been away!

    It's just that I don't often post away from Orwell.
    I really had to think a minute, and then said ohhhh.

    You might see me down there one day. I favor Orwell over Huxley and have no idea why Huxley is as highly placed as he is, but having said that, Utopian forms...I am sleepy and grasping for the word-- they sledge hammer, make me a bit antsy, which is why I have little love lost for Mysterious Stranger, and others on formula.

    The movie 1984 did interest me in trying to sit down with the book one day. We shall see.

  12. #12
    Registered User jgweed's Avatar
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    Multiple choice.

    "We are relative beings, we exist in relation to one another but cosmically, we exist in relation to absolutes." Is this learned through:

    A. Revelation
    B. Realisation
    C. Teachings

    My point is that philosophy, at least as I conceive it, rejects A-C as valid methods of knowing. Indeed, further, that philosophy has, not without some travail, historically separated itself from these ways of viewing the fundamental questions of human existence by considering them instead from a critical, generally systematic approach that relies upon reasoned argument instead of a priori deductions which may give certainty, but at the cost of critical, "authentic" and doubtful questioning.

    Further, since truth is attained through reason and understanding, it is open to anyone, provided the premises, conclusions, and arguments are as precise as they are clearly presented. Private or "secret" truths, then, are excluded from philosophical discourse.

    To quote---as seems the fashion-- the famous philosopher, "I can't get no satisfaction" from non-philosophical proclamations, even if they might be interesting, profound, or "true."
    Last edited by jgweed; 07-30-2008 at 10:41 AM.
    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

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    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Nikolai, I am close to you and you know it very much. Ideas differ and at times ideals or principles clash but they are frivolous. All that is important is relation and we are closely and intensely related.

    I like you the way you are, unblemished with the ideas you idealize. For you are above ideas. You and I have something common that strings us together. We arrive at one point where we agree. The point is we are threaded or strung by a common thread.

    I feel what we are simply fragments of everything in the universe and there is something, some power or source of it that integrates or assembles the parts that are likely to centrifuge or diffuse. Whether we call soul or something that is there and we take different names.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  14. #14
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    You are correct, Blaze...you speak truly.

    Om

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