I love this book too and read it when I was 12. I think that it has some significance, but it really is a soap opera. It's foolish it even suggest comparing it to Tolstoy.
I love this book too and read it when I was 12. I think that it has some significance, but it really is a soap opera. It's foolish it even suggest comparing it to Tolstoy.
This was much ado about nothing. A backdrop for a one sided jealousy between two women. Scarlett didn't care if a Yankee woman had Ashley. Scarlett was inexperiened only. She was an absolutely perfect character though who could have her own salon if she wanted that.
found one danik! be back later sometime to make a legitimate post...
Fine!
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
im presently reading the book, just finished chapter 25, 232 pages in. thought I would take a lot of the posts just prior to this and use them as a basis from which to comment, at least on some of the points.Originally Posted by WentWiththeWind
my book is only 832 pages, not 1031, it doesn't have the word "abridged" anywhere in it, so im wondering about the difference.
I don't see Ashley as a "weak man." I believe a weak man would have succumbed not only to scarlett's charms, but all the more so to her direct assault. she essentially threw herself at him twice. in the first instance he rebuffed her by saying he knew that she'd eventually end up hating him because he really wasn't the man she needed. in the second instance it was likely out of fidelity to his wife.
melanie (melly) is an admirable character. she may be physically weak, but along with ellen (scarlett's mother) she's one of the most thoughtful, moral and steadfast character to appear so far.
I would not say that "Rhett is head over heels for Scarlett." maybe he becomes so later, but so far, he comes and goes as he pleases, and while he must certainly be attracted to her, he also treats her with a cool distance, a little condescension, and hasn't made any sort of real play for her love.
haven't met frank yet.
i'll probably say this later in contrast to some other books that are mentioned in posts subsequent to this one---its an easy book to read, and so far im enjoying it.
Last edited by bounty; 04-04-2023 at 08:59 PM.
Well, Iīll take your comment as a basis for my post as it has been ages that I read the book.
Gone with the Wind must have been a bestseller at his time, probably there were different editions. That would account maybe for this difference in the number of pages.
I donīt remember the chracters so well. Thinking back Ashley is the great obsession of Scarlet. He seems to be rather conventional. He probably is more shocked than flattered by her advances. I think the relationship possibly wouldnīt work, Scarlet would probably get bored with him pretty soon. Melanie is a much better match for him.
Scarlet is portrayed as a willful and anti-conventional but strong and brave type of woman which still seems to shock some of the readers of the book. If I remember rightly it is this unconventionality + her beauty that attracts Rhett Butler.
Melanie was first my heroine - I prefered her more mature, set ways to the behavior of Scarlet. She is also courageous.
As to the morals of the storyI have one opinion today that changed very much the way I regard the book. But I prefer talking about it, when you have finished the book and formed your own opinion. After all I am an outsider.
Itīs an easy read and the film is stunning.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
makes me wonder when the new York times came out with their "bestseller" feature in the newspaper.
the cover of my copy says "winner of the Pulitzer prize. the most widely read American novel ever written."
we need the girl from pawn stars, Rebecca (who I have a crush on!) to explain the possible difference in page numbers. on one of the inside pages there is listed what appears to be the original "macmillan edition published june 1936." I have the "25th printing December 1967" of the "pocket book edition." later on the page it says "the pocket book edition includes every word contained in the original, higher-priced edition. it is printed from brand-new plates made from completely reset, clear, easy to read type..."
yes, scarlett freaks out when she finds out Ashley's going to marry melanie. she marries Charles mostly out of spite. and after he dies, she spends the next couple of years, before seeing Ashley again, living with melanie and aunt pitty constantly pining for him and when he shows up at christmas, imagining that she can still somehow have him.
if you want, I can go back and actually find the words Ashley himself uses to describe his initial rejection of scarlett.
for sure scarlett is willful and non-conventional, and yet at the same time, still somewhat adherent to strong social norms. I wonder if anyone has ever done a traditional feminist analysis of her.
I agree---part of what Rhett sees in her is a woman who could come more into her own with his anti-establishment influence.
I don't think it bodes well for melanie---I can Ashley dying in prison camp and I can see her dying in childbirth. I suspect ellen is going to die early also.
youre welcome to tell me what you think now danik if you like. it wont spoil the story for me and I can sorta keep my eyes peeled for affirmation or rejection of it as I go along.
im looking forward to watching the movie when im done with the book.
assuming downing is of the same nationality of her location, its interesting to consider how a Romanian would come to read the book. I took a quick peek at her profile and found this:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...hp?albumid=118
and her profile page background seems to be a screen shot from the movie.
its a bummer she doesn't tell us why she loved the book so much.
Do you believe that I quite forgot the existence of Charles, and that Scarlet married after all, but neither Ashley nor Rhett?
I think idealized love dies harder as long as it isnīt affected by reality. Scarlett has in fact very little real contact to Ashley, so he remains an intact obsession.
Well for me the (very) problematic aspect of the novel is that Margareth Mitchell, wholly espouses the point of view of the landed North
American big farmers of the South, including their prejudices.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
Charles is barely in the book. on their wedding night scarlett said to him "if you touch me i'll scream."
I think that's a great point about scarlett's love for Ashley enduring because he's absent.
I mentioned before, but its worth saying again, she's not a very admirable character. she recently slipped out of her hospital duties when it was full of wounded soldiers in need and ran off. there's absolutely no instances of her being a mother to her child, wade.
right now the yankees, under Sherman, are fairly on the outskirts of atlanta. I wonder if the drawing on the cover of my copy comes from what I suspect ensues---the burning of the city and Rhett somehow rescuing scarlett.
im not sure im following what youre saying danik. doesn't every author pretty much write from the perspective of the protagonists?
Last edited by bounty; 04-07-2023 at 04:01 PM.
the above post came immediately after the post that rated the book "an all time favorite" and a "10/10!"
I could peek at the end, but i'll keep myself in suspense.
however, I wonder if its such a bad ending? what would the poster have had scarlett say or do? its reminiscent of the famous song and line from annie "tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow, you're always a day away..."
there are some clever people on the internet that make insightful and/or snarky alternative endings to movies, theyre called HISHE (how it should have ended) and some of their stuff is pretty funny.
Last edited by bounty; 04-07-2023 at 04:13 PM.
Bounty, according to my remembrance Scarlet is no moral example. She follows to much her own will and her own inclinations, specially at the beginning of the novel, when she is still very young.
The moral example according to Mitchell would probably be quiet Melanie.
"im not sure im following what youre saying danik. doesn't every author pretty much write from the perspective of the protagonists?"
I think, very often the answer is yes, Bounty, but there are authors that write from the perspective of different characters, like Faulkner for example in "The Sound of the Fury" or "The Woman in White" by Wilkie Collins. Anyway the perspective of the book, whether singular or multiple manifests the authors values and prejudices.
To learn more about Margareth Mitchellīs I just had a look at her Wikipedia page. It gives a very detailed account of her life (and her ascendance) and shows how much the South she describes in her novel, draws from her own life and readings. If you want to take a look:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mitchell
So from her point of view, slavery, for example, would be something natural. But she lives and writes just at a time in the history of US when this ideology is breaking up.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
melanie is seemingly on the verge of giving birth. scarlett wants to flee to tara, but melanie cant be moved, so scarlet's staying because she promised Ashley she'd take care of melanie.
ah so you are talking about Margaret Mitchell's own personal views?
alas I think I have to fight with you danik. is there a comical emoji I can insert here (if I was able to use them!) that good-naturedly illustrates that?
I don't see anything in the Wikipedia page supporting a contention that the author is in sympathy with the institution of slavery or that slavery could be understood as a "natural thing."
I think a similar statement, though with less stringency, could be made about racial prejudice as well. at worst she was attracted to books as a youth that decried reconstruction---but everyone in the south hated that, even many years after the fact. there is a running joke in the states that says some people in the south are still fighting the civil war and among other things, aren't fond of northerners. "damn yankees" is still a popular phrase. but there's nothing to indicate she's on the side of the KKK or that she approved of jim crow laws.
so here's someone who didn't like the movie! the movie won the academy award for best picture of the year---that's not to say that everyone who watched it should have loved it, but it makes you wonder about the nature of the complaint.
we've talked about this before---the book to movie or movie back to book sequence can be a stimulating and enjoyable process to engage in.
I recently read a book and watched the movie at the same time, going back and forth between the two (the girl who kicked the hornet's nest), and I really enjoyed it. its fun to consider as I go along through this book, knowing there is a movie out there waiting to be watched, what scenes from the book will be in the movie and what wont. I also like being able to picture clark gable and vivien leigh as Rhett and scarlett.
in last nights reading, Rhett was very forward with scarlett concerning his intentions and pretty much propositioned her. there was some revelation too about his attraction to her---I think I mentioned something akin to this earlier---he sees some compatibility with her based on her not being a lady and their being somewhat alike in their contrarian (to southern culture) nature. all the readings been good and easy so far, but that little section was most interesting and I flew through it---lending more credence to pushkin's line of "the attention of women being almost the sole aim of men..."
but scarlett took offense at his presumption, was a little upset at herself by the end of their discussion, and stormed off never wanting to see him again. Rhett's imperturbable...
why do they make such a compelling couple??
Yes, Bounty, I mean the authors values as they can be perceived in the perspective of the book. Please take into account that Iīm a foreigner and that I read the novel probably more than 50 years ago.
Slavery is a delicate theme in my country, specially now, as the hidden story of Brazilian Afro descendants is brought to light, monuments are set for them, metro stations and districts will even be going to change their names. In yours it seems it created a division, there were almost two countries.
I think Mitchellīs views obey her origin, her upbringing, her reading and her own experience. There probably are other novels about the American Civil War, but I donīt think any one became so popular as "Gone with the Wind" because bound up with an iconic love story.
As you have noticed my quarrel is with the ideological part that favours the point of view of the Southern farmers.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
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