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Thread: Is all magic bad?

  1. #1

    Is all magic bad?

    everything that i refer to says magic is bad and that all magic is directed to satan... as a candel magic practitioner, i have never cast a candel to hurt people or to make one desire me as it is my personal rule and the rules of this magic for say that one may believe in whatever god they like but candel magic is for one's own benefits.

    what do ya'll thik

  2. #2
    The Bible says yes, it is all bad: "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead." (Deuteronomy 18:10-11)

    But I'm not a believer in the Bible or in candle magic, so I say, "Do what you like".

    Just don't pray to Eris.

  3. #3
    Circumcised Welder El Viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vittoria666 View Post
    everything that i refer to says magic is bad and that all magic is directed to satan... as a candel magic practitioner, i have never cast a candel to hurt people or to make one desire me as it is my personal rule and the rules of this magic for say that one may believe in whatever god they like but candel magic is for one's own benefits.

    what do ya'll thik
    I think there's as much varied opinion on this as on anything else that can't be measured. There are prominent Christians who regularly consult astrologers, and others who read cards, cast candles, and throw salt over their shoulders. I see little difference between prayer, chanting, and other forms of incantation. The mechanics might differ, but it's still an appeal to the invisible to make things go our way. We all have our magic feather clutched safely in our trunk.

    But to split one or two hairs, the Bible is pretty clear that we should seek our answers and results from God, and not anything or anyone else. He is jealous, after all. Moses gave The Law and Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer, and those, strictly speaking, are the boundaries. Within is safety, without is peril and perhaps hell.

    If you believe in such things.

  4. #4
    In the fog Charles Darnay's Avatar
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    Diverging from the "because the Bible says so" answer and focusing on what is good or bad - magic is not all bad. It is corruptive, like anything else in the world, but it has the power to do good. In my opinion, the same theories that you can apply to magic - candel magic, alchemy, anything dealing with the occult - you can apply to science. Chemicals are used to heal people: which (more so a few centuries ago) some Bible enthusiasts frowned upon for it was not the way of God. And yet, science has also been used to destroy people.

    So in short....no
    I wrote a poem on a leaf and it blew away...

  5. #5
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    "Magic" is a vague term - what are we talking about here? Card tricks? Illusions? Or actual power - which we might term "witchcraft" or "sorcery"?

    The first two are harmless - the last two are the ones the Bible prohibits. This type of "magic" - the pursuit of actual power that is beyond natural ability - is prohibited by the Bible because it is essentially the attempt to do what only God may do - create, destroy, bend the laws of physics or time. Entertaining kids at a party is one thing - attempting to harness power that is only God's prerogative is completely another.

    Like many things, there is a continuum within magic - starting with the harmless illusions and ending with full-blown Satanic power. Where that line is may be a subject of debate, but it is there.
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

  6. #6
    Circumcised Welder El Viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redzeppelin View Post
    Like many things, there is a continuum within magic - starting with the harmless illusions and ending with full-blown Satanic power. Where that line is may be a subject of debate, but it is there.
    Speaking of debating the position of lines, remember the story of the priest, the non-denominational minister, and the Rabbi debating the position of the line at which life begins?

    The priest says 'we believe life begins at conception.'
    The minister says 'we believe life begins with a baby's first breath.'
    The Rabbi says 'we believe life begins when the kids move away and the dog dies.'

    It could be argued that the line is right before the harmless illusions. All things are lawful, but not all are expedient, and Christians are instructed to avoid even the appearance of evil, to avoid being a stumbling block to the weak. Magic of the parlor trick variety or the 'full-blown Satanic' variety as practiced by Mike Warnke (or the kind he claimed to have practiced, the big fake) are sometimes indistinguishable to babes in the faith.

    But if you chuck belief in the supernatural on all counts, magic is just entertainment and exhortations about it one way or the other are a distraction. Real 'satanic' power is not stuff from Harry, Carrie, or the Exorcist. It's what occurs whenever a soldier, police officer, civic leader, boss, parent, spouse, teacher, minister, or someone who is merely physically stronger abuses those over whom they have power. And as soon as we are aware of such abuse we instantly become allied with the problem or the solution, depending on what we do next.

  7. #7
    Registered User Equality72521's Avatar
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    This question definately depends upon who you ask, becasue there are hard core bible huggers who will shun you and what not but then most don't care.

    There is bad magick that could only be cast by a person, but generally they're foolish and they're the, like, 5 in a million that give a bad name to practicing magick.

    My personal beliefe, as a former practicioner of magick myself, as long as you practice innocent magick that is benefical, in a positive way, to yourself and others around you, then it's perfectly okay. But it comes down to how you feel and what you feel is right, not what others think is right. Remember that.
    Last edited by Equality72521; 07-30-2008 at 01:05 AM.
    Little one, Fate might miscarry.
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    My little one.

  8. #8
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post
    This question definately depends upon who you ask, becasue there are hard core bible huggers who will shun you and what not but then most don't care.
    "Bible huggers" - is that supposed to be some term of respect to those of us who believe in God? Is that supposed to predispose me (a "Bible hugger") to consider your argument? Or is it more likely to make me hostile because you're being disrespectful and dismissive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Equality72521 View Post
    My personal beliefe, as a practicioner of magick myself, as long as you practice innocent magick that is benefical, in a positive way, to yourself and others around you, then it's perfectly okay. But it comes down to how you feel and what you feel is right, not what others think is right. Remember that.
    The intention of the magic, and the source of its power are what makes it good or bad. Not "feelings" - feelings are not reality; they are things that are capricious, changeable, and subject to things beyond our control.
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

  9. #9
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Well as a Pagan I do not see any bad in magick and I do not much care what the bibile has to say about it.

    Anything can be used for good or bad, but magic intself is not bad, but rather it is the intent behind the magic and the person using it.

    Magick is just a tool like any other tool that can be used for my purposes.

    Though I do not belive in allegeed "black magick" becasue the magick itself is nither good nor bad, it is all about the person using it. Magick is just energy and energy is neutral.

    Being that I do not belive in Satan and the tradition I follow has been around longer then Christianity has, than of course I do not belive that magick comes from Satan, but rather I think it comes from all life. To me magick is just the drawing and manipulation of energy and energy can be found in the very air. Most magick involves drawing from Nature and the Earth.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  10. #10
    Registered User Judas130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vittoria666 View Post
    everything that i refer to says magic is bad and that all magic is directed to satan... as a candel magic practitioner, i have never cast a candel to hurt people or to make one desire me as it is my personal rule and the rules of this magic for say that one may believe in whatever god they like but candel magic is for one's own benefits.

    what do ya'll thik
    i read the first few words you had to say there and thats rubbish, magic does not, originally, have anything to do with Satan. Sounds like you heard some good ol' church propaganda.

    magic has its downsides, a lot of things about magic can be described as poking your head through a gateway blindfolded, knowing not what lies ahead. but 'all magic' does not direct to Satan. Even magic cast with the intent to harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post

    Being that I do not belive in Satan and the tradition I follow has been around longer then Christianity has...
    keep in mind, Satan is a lot older than Christianity also, he is a pagan deity too.
    Last edited by Judas130; 08-09-2008 at 10:30 AM.

  11. #11
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Necromancy, magic, witchcraft, conjuration are some unscientific, unempirical notions of things. I do not subscribe to such things as they degrade, disgrace human beings to their fall.

    In history or in some books of literalness we have read plenty of stories related to necromancy, for instance, we Dr. Faustus who was a good doctor and could do something to help human beings in a humanitarian way, but taking to a world of magic or conjuration he damaged himself and many others. He destroyed himself to an extent that he created a history of debaucheries or decadence of the human soul.

    Man came across so many times such cases and there were temptations, too many temptations and man at times exceeding conquering them and at times got routed.

    Therefore, dear friend do not try to repeat the history of necromancy and magic and we must collectively object them.

    There are many tales of tortures, falls, degradation of human beings and now we do not want such black spots of history, the history of magic and necromancy in human life. Let us live without these things and create a world, a peaceful and beautiful world for posterity without airs of necromancy and magic.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  12. #12
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
    Necromancy, magic, witchcraft, conjuration are some unscientific, unempirical notions of things. I do not subscribe to such things as they degrade, disgrace human beings to their fall.
    No - they just don't exist and never have.

    The only magic you'll ever see is that performed by stage magicians and is illusory.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  13. #13
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
    No - they just don't exist and never have.

    The only magic you'll ever see is that performed by stage magicians and is illusory.
    We do not know whether they really exist or not and we can draw conclusions just because science can not prove and there are many things science can not prove, and besides what we call sciences today can be deemed falsehoods tomorrow.

    Do not turn to science and do not infer it, with opinionated notions.

    Magic exists, and so does its evil effects, and you can understand it once you uncloak yourself, that means, once you remove the layers that debar you from knowing the truth of it things will be revealed to you.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  14. #14
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    The only possible magic is undiscovered science. Naturally if it becomes studied, this magic, its properties fall under the realm of science, as it is an attribute of the universe to be studied, just like everything else. Magic, therefore, is science, assuming it exists, though I have a hard time believing lighting candles does anything but create light/heat/melt wax.

  15. #15
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
    We do not know whether they really exist or not and we can draw conclusions just because science can not prove and there are many things science can not prove, and besides what we call sciences today can be deemed falsehoods tomorrow.
    No, you're being silly. We do know that magic doesn't exist as it has repeatedly failed scientific investigation over hundreds of years. And there is nothing science can't prove. It has trouble disproving the odd thing, but it's very good at providing proof. Given that no magic has ever been successfully done and no magic tricks remain unexplained, I'm quite happy to dismiss the magic, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
    Do not turn to science and do not infer it, with opinionated notions.
    I really don't know where you get off with this type of remark, because there is no opinion in science, there is fact and fallacy. As to me turning to science, I always have and always will. Just because science conflicts with some pet notion of yours does not mean you can dismiss it. That isn't how the world works. People used to think it did several hundred years ago, but we've learned a few things since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
    Magic exists, and so does its evil effects, and you can understand it once you uncloak yourself, that means, once you remove the layers that debar you from knowing the truth of it things will be revealed to you.
    Sorry, but this is just a plea for magic without any basis in fact or reality. It would be lovely if humans could fly [unassisted] too, but gravity and reality mean we can't, so while it's nice to keep the fantasy, that's all it will ever be - fantasy.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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