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Thread: Friedrich Melchior Grimm (revisited)

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    Friedrich Melchior Grimm (revisited)

    The man carrying this name, who shaped modern european philosophy, art, society and geography, was infact born Gioachino Cocchi, musician. He is mostly known today-eversince 1745-as comte de Saint Germain but also used a few other interesting names (yet unknown, or at least never publicized by Saint Germain's authors and authorities until now).
    Readers are advised to first read-through relative study at.....

    http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=15023

    ....and then return here, say late August next, for more on "Melchior Grimm" and his fascinating true life story.

    Until then.
    Last edited by yanni; 07-29-2008 at 01:12 PM. Reason: change date 1754 to 1745

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    Why "late August", why not sooner?

    The discovery that "Melchior Grimm" never truly existed, that he was another face of le comte de Saint Germain, could perhaps be labelled "of major importance" or even "extremely radical" in what concerns modern history, philosophy and society as well as the corresponding "scholarly sources" or lack of.

    Faced with the immense amount of online info on M.Grimm, yourstruly could not really make up his mind on his next course, how to handle the matter alltogether, and was more or less inclined towards simply proving his "grimm discovery" by presenting herein his evidence in a convincing "scholarly" manner, hence he granted himself the appropriate time, till late August, to prepare, also allowing for a few days by the sea.

    Things did not turn out as he planned however: Soon after starting his "Melchior Grimm tour" another stranger appeared on his screen, le chevalier de Chastellux, insisting that his " Voyage dans l'Amérique septentrionale, dans les années 1780, 1781 et 1782" provided the answer to the alleged visits of mythical "comte Saint Germain" to the USA. .

    Washington's, Jefferson's and Franklin's correspondent, le chevalier or marquis de Chastellux was yet another important alias of Saint Germain. The relative pile of webinfo, added to the corresponding "Grimm" pile, made life extremely unpleasant for yourstruly with his long formed and expressed opinion and "esteem" for the particular quality of scolarly truth and it's veil, carefully covering Saint Germain and everyone related to him:.

    'Your "two hudred years of Poe scholarship" reminded me of Mr Bean clumsily trying to repair the portrait he accidentally damaged, finally destroying it! ' was his wicked response, 2 June 2008, to Wiki's "Poe expert" rejecting his Al Aarraf contribution, this same conclusion now further strengthened by his last discoveries.

    When Gioachino Cocchi (as Saint Germain, Grimm AND Chastellux) is placed alongside his cousin Charles Nicholas Cochin(fils), 1750-1788, the need to rewrite History is certainly evident but not yourstruly's beer.

    Counting resources he decided to limit himself to the bare essentials. "Everybody but me is a liar" was an egoistic statement, he knew well, but in his particular case there was no other option: He had to prove his truth, to do it, he had to prove the others "false"-when applicable-not least among them Saint Germain himself.

    To follow:

    Presentation of sufficient evidence to prove that Melchior Grimm and Le chevalier de Chastellux were in fact aliases of Gioachino Cocchi/Augustin Henry Cochin aka le comte de Saint Germain
    Last edited by yanni; 02-25-2009 at 04:07 AM. Reason: slight modification

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    Presentation of sufficient evidence

    Part I

    The remarkably common lack of any family or other personal life details on the online biographies/tales on Saint Germain, Cocchi, Grimm and Chastellux cannot on its own be considered either proof of their common identity, or evidence of an artfully planned conspiracy to hide the fact .

    The same applies for the thousand or so unanswered questions with regard to "their" common talents (opera buffa, theater, botanology, chemistry) philosophical viewpoints, friends etc etc. ("How did "german Grimm" learn french so quickly? Why did he support italian opera buffa? How did he manage to conquer french literature? etc etc)

    When a detailed timeline however is prepared, including enough details concerning their presences or absences to various parts of the world- excepting "largely unknowns" Cocchi and Cochin*(footnote), the others are all labelled today as great travellers- the lack of any overlap, the harmonious coincidence of their arrivals, stays and departures is such evidence and much more than that.
    It's the confirmation of Saint Germain's myth, it is the basis for a true study of his unique character.

    With "Grimm"-last alias to survive- tactically withdrawing and covering up-in his "Correpondence Litteraires, anecdotiques..."-his other main aliases (Chastellux, Saint Germain and "Claude Louis, comte de Saint Germain") and with his Cochin-Caussin descendants returning to Paris ready to continue their under cover "Mercer dynasty" in -their friend**- Napoleon's regime, one can easily understand the reluctance of many of their later friends and associates, like Chateaubriand (on Grimm (http://tkline.pgcc.net/PITBR/Chateau...hatindexG.htm), "Mme de Crecqy"-Cousin de Chourchamp- (On a naughty comte de Saint Germain making a fool of le chevalier de Chastellux http://penelope.uchicago.edu/crequy/index.shtml) and naturally earlier friends and authors like Voltaire and Rousseau, fully under Cochin "influence".

    It was "Grimm" in fact who first established "Saint-Germain, Claude Louis, comte de" (Mémoires de M. le comte de St. Germain ... éscrits par lui-même. Amsterdam, M. M. Rey, 1779. MiU (Amsterdam, 1779...London, 1781). (http://www.history.uiuc.edu/people/j...de/part2/18th/)

    Because it was he who later published in his "Correspondence", first ever, the letters of "his" comte de Saint Germain, war minister of France, establishing his presence in Copenhagen in an article by an unknown author who went as far as to claim that le comte de Saint Germain was in fact Rousseau***(NOTE), the attrocious claim immediately rejected then with horror by the know-all editor "Grimm-Saint Germain" (Correspondance littéraire, philosophique et critique ... p.548)

    It was "Grimm" who kept a close eye with regard to his Chastellux alias as well, almost revealing his aliases nomdeplume sole existence.....

    "Nom qui portait encore l'auteur, il y a deux ans." (about le marquis de Chastellux in 1785)
    p. 517 "Correspondance littéraire, philosophique et critique ..."
    books.google.gr/books?id=Qz00AAAAMAAJ...

    ...and it was he who labelled George Washington "Chastellux's God" writing to his friend Diderot
    «C'est le Dieu de Chastellux», écrivait Grimm à Diderot._Correspondance_, X, 471
    http://www.ihaystack.com/authors/b/t...erique_pendant

    Footnotes
    *the copy/copyright protected site..... http://g.alhinc.free.fr/Epinay..... lists about 14 presences and 4-highly enlightening- absences (marriages or deaths of his children in his absence) of Augustin Henry Cochin from his "seigneury", all highly revealing.
    ** See a)marriage of : May 1778 Augustin Henry Cochin's daughter, Marie Henriette, 19years old, to Claude Joseph Gabrielle de Vaulx, father and mother of the bride present.(Viscount de Vaulx, +1809, Marshal of France)
    see b) Napoleon/s acceptence in the school of war in 1784, while "Comte Saint Germain", who renovated and opened the school shortly before, was in control of France (to be verified lateron) .
    HOWEVER:
    Saint Germain's post 1784 actions (as Al.Serg. Stroganov -as discovered further down this thread) , the assasination of Paul I and Stroganov descendants military participation against N (russian campaign), indicate that their friendship did not last. Did Napoleon attack "Stroganov's" Russia? That's a good question for the historian of the future to answer!
    *** The "parallel lifes" of all Saint Germain's aliases to Rousseau's have been studied in the meantime in detail (along with the "other similarities" -mainly between the works of "La Dixmerie" and Rousseau and the common talents of Cocchi/Gluck/Chastellux and Rousseau): Yourstruly hesitates to phrase his attrocious conclusion at this stage!
    Last edited by yanni; 12-25-2008 at 01:43 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Part II

    If Saint Germain had his private reasons to create, maintain and immortalize his multifaced myth, so did also his contemporary and later, till the present, historians, their efforts to conceal and diminish him (keeping his personnae apart) so obvious in every book and every relative article. There is no need to further drive the point home, but one would expect, by some authoritative sources at least, to be less obvious in their endeavours. Such as, for instance l’Académie française:

    M. le chevalier de Chastellux, ayant été élu par l’Académie française à la place laissée vacante par la mort de M. de Chateaubrun, y est venu prendre séance le jeudi 27 avril 1775*, et a prononcé le discours**....:


    Buffon his (Cocchi's/Grimm's) friend, directeur de l’Académie at the time sitting in "fauteuil" #1 and Chastellux was given the seat next to him, #2.

    Such info can be found on related articles on him, but the fact he became president of the Academy later on (around 1783) is carefully avoided today, not just by wiki-pedias but by the Academy itself, and one has to rely on the word of abbe Morellet:

    Le chevalier de Chastellux , directeur de l'académie à l'époque (1785) de ma réception.
    (Mémoires de l'abbé Morellet ... sur le dix-huitième siècle et sur ... - Google Books- André Morellet - 1821)

    Keeping the "quality of truth" in mind, let us now return to continue our "presentation":

    Many such interesting details are revealed by our lengthy timeline, previously mentioned, but it's simply much too detailed to be presented herein, therefore the "cherchez les femmes" method will be next apllied to reach our q.e.d .

    Among their other common characteristics, our heroes also shared their admiration for the fair sex not just in their common love affairs but also in their common affection to the offsprings thereof.

    "Grimm" for instance was "vehemently" in love with Marie Fell, the "primadonna of the italian opera company", the same who purchased her Chaillot house later on from "Augustin Henri Cochin"-Cocchi after his divorce from his wife (around 1778).

    "Grimm's" remarkable admiration for Catherine II of Russia, so evident in their- still partly unknown- correspondence, yet only explainable through Saint Germain's alleged involvement in her 1762 enthronement, the 1764 transfer of a large part of the Medici art collection (The Uffizi was under Raimondo Cocchi 1758-1775) in L'Ermittage, Charles Nicholas Cochin's own relative personal involvement, reward and decoration by Catherine II (Ed.Goncour).

    Lastly, their simultaneous(Grimm, Dupin and Cocchi as per The Poe Announcement) affection to Mme d'Epinay, their common presences and theater presentations at "la Chevrette" ( Chastellux-and Rousseau-included).

    Their common children and grand children,such as- but not limited to- Angelique and Emilie

    Regarding "François-Jean de Beauvoir*** de Chastellux's" later life marriage to Marie-Josephine-Charlotte-Brigitte de Plunkett and their son Alfred: A separate chapter will follow later on herein, once relative research is sufficiently completed. http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/index/p...ial/clist.html

    Footnotes

    *In this very same year:
    In 1775 (27th) October, on the death of the Marechal du Muy, the ascendency obtained by the sect of innovators occasioned M. de Saint-Germain to be recalled to Court and made Minister of War.27 October 1775 US revolutionary congress authorises banknotes. "Grimm" was made a baron of the Holy Roman Empire in 1775 and "became minister of Saxe-Gotha at the court of France in 1776", while cousin Charles Nicholas Cochin (fils): En 1775, les Observations sur les ouvrages exposés au Louvre commencent ainsi : «Quelque rassasié que M. Cochin puisse être des éloges reçus en tant d'expositions (1)…» Et Diderot lui-même, emporté par l'éblouissement public, finit par le reconnaître pour le «premier dessinateur français».

    ** In Chastellux's touching speech one finds the word "grec" mentioned 15 times, "Muse" 9 times, "lati(n)" 7 times and "Franc(e)" 5 times.

    ***"Beauvoir" is the same as "Bellegarde"

    (continued)
    Last edited by yanni; 11-30-2008 at 04:09 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Part III

    Interesting as they may be, we'll leave aside for the moment the details of our hero's life long relation to Mme d'Epinay or their daughter Angelique...

    (Angélique Louise Charlotte dite Pauline LALIVE d'EPINAY, o La Chevrette 01.08.1749 + Gémozac 01.06.1824)

    ....to concentrate on their grandaughter, the famous Emilie, daughter of Angelique and Dominique de Belsunce, her husband*(Note 1).

    Because Emilie, who allegedly hosted our hero (as "Grimm") in his later years in Gotha.....

    ...in 1777 he left Paris on a visit to St Petersburg, where he remained for nearly a year in daily intercourse with Catherine. He acted as Paris agent for the empress in the purchase of works of art, and executed many confidential commissions for her. In 1792 he emigrated, and in the next year settled in Gotha, where his poverty was relieved by Catherine, who in 1796 appointed him minister of Russia at Hamburg. On the death of the empress Catherine he took refuge with Mme d'Epinay's granddaughter, Emilie de Belsunce, comtesse de Bueil. http://tkline.pgcc.net/PITBR/Chateau...ChatindexG.htm

    ......HAS the evidence we have been looking for to doublecheck our theorem that Gioachino Cocchi IS Augustin Henry Cochin (seigneur d'Epinay, du Breuil etc) IS le comte de Saint Germain, IS Grimm, IS Chastellux, IS*(Note 2) Claude Louis Dupin de Franceuil.....


    ....but for this slight misspelling: "Bueil" instead of "Breuil"!

    There was noone else in her circle she could have inherited the "du Bueil" title from but her loving grandfather, A.H.Cochin "...seigneur du Breuil".

    Is there, in this newly reordered world of ours, a man so impudent as to go against the authority of Encyclopedia Britanica and the rest of "them"?
    Yes, there is:

    In his "The Story of a Throne (Catherine II. of Russia), 1971" Kazimierz Waliszewski writes on Grimm:

    "Rather late in life he had come to have quite a family: Emilie de Belsunce, granddaughter of Madame d'Epinay, married to the Comte de Breuil...." *(Note 3)

    One must assume that the author had sufficient access to Catherine II' s letters to "Grimm" (the letters were returned to Russia in 1813) to spell Emilie's title correctly-and go against the "western lore"- but was also provided, by Emilie, the wrong information re the source of such title.

    In other words, Emilie inherited the "Du Breuil" title from her grandfather (who allegedly sold the Epinay sur Orge property before he "died" in 1784:En 1785 il y avait Gilbert Georges de Montcloux, fermier général du roi....il vendit le moulin du Breuil au Bailli de Crussol, déjà propriétaire de la Gilquinière qui, acheté par la ville de Paris, sera le futur site de l’hôpital de Vaucluse) and she propably was in litigation with but "avoiding" Paris at the time of "Grimm's" death and later on (Until an overall settlement was reached, including "Grimm's" Livadia property, today Yalta, Ukraine-see next posts).

    Q.E.D

    (In view of other current commitments- and installation of new hardware-this thread will not be continued for a while)

    Note 1:see The Project Gutenberg e-Book of Mémoires d’Outre-Tombe, Tome II, Note 19:
    Le comte de Belsunce, major en second du régiment de Bourbon Infanterie. ..... près de son parc de la Chevrette, dans la forêt de Montmorency, ... conclusion: Angelique inherited La Chvretee from her mother Mme d'Epinay IF NOT from her real father!

    Note 2: In her Memoirs Mme d'Epinay gives an interesting account of her simultaneous-for a while- dating of both Dupin and Grimm, the latter gaining her confidence soon after. The different fates of her son (by Dupin?) and daughter(Angelique, by Grimm) indicate that the two men were different personalities, ie "Grimm IS Dupin" only(?) because Dupin has been assumed "vraisembleument" to be the father of Angelique.


    Note3: When they were married however HE was not a "Du Beuil" BUT SHE was "du Breuil"

    See T319 Papiers du Bueil et Grimm at
    http://www.archivesnationales.cultur...e/T301_345.pdf

    In 19th March 1786 Renee Therese Emilie de Belsunce was married to Alexandre Louis Auguste du Roux de Chevrier in France.
    The title Du Bueil was granted to him by Charles X, in 1827. The couple, sometime after 1792?, moved to Russia and then to Brunswick 1798-1800
    Last edited by yanni; 08-17-2008 at 12:32 AM. Reason: du Bueil vs du Breuil

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    July the 14th +1!

    Even if yourstruly purchased the capacity to remain indefinitely online, boot large amounts of text, open pdf files etc- essential requirements to study his main hero and his entourage better-he is still undecided as to the most appropriate way forward of this here “new thread” or article concerning le comte de Saint Germain and his aliases and true role in “world history”.

    A matter of taste mostly rather than anything else, the character complexity of subject and the amount of work involved amply compensated already by the perpetuous mirth and amusement created by this unique situation yourstruly is finding himself lately, having communicated not just with America’s hardest to understand poet but with la crème de la crème of France’s finest gens de lettres, he, a greek barely able to read and understand French.

    Questions like “Why me?” or “If I can see IT, why others didn’t in the past?” should really be answered by others and furthermore there is this flaw of character thing, shuting off his research motor soon as curiosity is sufficiently satisfied while the “prose writing motor” refuses to start.

    Curiously, his hero, as “Grimm”, has been accused for the same, more or less, character flaw:

    In his “PRÉFACE” of Rousseau’s “confessions”, monsieur Jules CLARETIE de l'Académie française, vehemently attacks “Grimm” (C'est un assez médiocre personnage que ce Grimm….Grimm, cancanier vulgaire, critique de théâtre d'une infériorité absolue, sorte de reporter érudit, comme on dirait aujourd'hui…) while declaring himself unable to comprehend why and how “Grimm” “protégeait Diderot, le prenait en amitié!”

    Monsieur Jules fails to mention that it was not just Diderot but also Rousseau AND Voltaire who saught “mediocre Grimm’s” protection and friendship to their last, but does subconciously link his “Grimm” to Concino quoting Eleonora Caligaia * (not Galigai as usually written to make her French):

    …Galigaï retourné: "J'avais sur la reine, disait la maréchale d'Ancre, l'influence qu'ont les esprits forts sur les esprits faibles!"

    Your “mediocre Grimm”, monsieur, was “otherwise occupied” working for France and could not afford to waste his time writing a page a day.He (Chastellux) was however paralleled to Montesquieu for his history writings by none other than Voltaire.

    French academicians have apparently forgotten Charles Nicholas Cochin’s “Misotechnites” and their important place in modern society.

    Next: Everything is possible with music!

    *"Καλιγά" today, a well known name from the Ionian isles and a good wine also. Originaly "Καλιγαία" meaning fertile land!
    Last edited by yanni; 07-19-2008 at 10:51 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Everything is possible with music!

    Two hundred years after his loss, it is perhaps time to say a few words to the memory of the man who, among others, also “managed” european music and, practically, all music masters of the second half of the 18th century!

    As the lighter of other issues arising out of our revelation, music is our “next post” choice, the goal still being to persuade our readers of the soundness of our findings.

    Gioachino Cocchi, an accomplished composer and stage manager already, Paris 1752, as “german Grimm”, started, with his “Le petit prophète de Boehmisch-Broda”, the “war of the buffoons” favouring italian Music to Rameau’s and, shortly before his appointment to the French Ministry of War(as Claude Louis comte de Saint Germain) concluded the next debate, “gluckists vs piccininists”, favouring his old friend , the “bohemian” Gluck, as “Chastellux” (a name first used by him in Vienna. See Metastasio’s letter to chevalier de Chastellux, 15 July 1756 :

    Your Highness ... I have made every effort to restore music to its true role of serving the poetry by means of its powers of expression...”
    )

    ...by not just anonymously translating to French Algarotti’s “Essai sur l’Opera”, published in Paris 1773, but also by translating and performing by Mme d’Epinay’s at La Chevrette and at Mme Genlis’s theatre in Chaussee d”Antin, Gluck’s Iphigénie en Aulide (1774) and propably “…en Tauride” as well (1776).

    Gluck, Vienna’s court maestro before -and with many visits to London-a friend of J.C.Bach-who replaced Cocchi in London, around 1754-certainly knew him well and so did propably Rousseau (who did enjoy Gluck’s Paris performances as above at the time, a mystery today for music researchers, how he, “their" choice for buffonist leader, deviated from his earlier beliefs!)

    ....and...

    ....shortly before his trip (as Chastellux) to America, 1778, his hosting (as “Grimm” living with Mme d’Epinay then) of Mozart junior to Paris, their intended cooperation gone sour because of Mozart’s youth and singularity of character and his host’s “other duties” and personal problems all accumulating then. Yet we have as a result Mozart’s precious correspondence to his father providing us with details of our hero’s life at the time.

    He knew**- and was of the same age with-Gluck (and Rousseau too and who is to say who the real composer of his "Devin" was) from their common stay in Naples and Venice, was propably impressed by and attacked him ironically as the “petit prophet from Bohemia"*-see note below- in 1752 but his choice for “Melchior Grimm” certainly came from a book:

    “Der abenteuerliche Simplicissimus Teutsch, d.h. die Beschreibung des Lebens eines seltsamen Vaganten, genannt Melchior Sternfels von Fuchsheim” ....the greatest German novel of the 17th century by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen.

    His main task was indeed grim from then on and that's why Cocchi stopped producing opera pieces soon thereafter!

    But, as stated, music has been the least of our concerns: The past few days the “parallel lifes” of “Chastellux”, “Grimm” and Cocchi have been examined in detail via his evergrowing timeline (some 80 pages A4 by now) and as it turns out, our multifaced hero’s cv is in fact so “dense”, so full, so important, fundamental and fascinating, as to distract the coolest of researchers.

    It was therefore with great difficulty yourstruly could supress his emotions, keep his wits together and then dare separate relevant music personalities from others, even greater in their fields (political, philosophical, military).

    Such must-and do-go, in real life, together but then, if this job, to keep them apart, is taken from our dear scholars, what would they do to earn a living?

    Note *In 1752 Gluck was in Naples, where he had been called to compose an opera for the Teatro San Carlo. Although it was not originally intended for him, the libretto he decided to set was Metastasio’s La clemenza di Tito (copypasted from the web). 1750-51 Cocchi staged his operas in Venice and Metastasio was closely linked to him and family!

    Note ** Following completion of this thread, yourstruly has realised that "Christoph Willibald Gluck" is, most propably,yet another persona of Cocchi, something that can easily be verified by those who have access to the text of "Le petit prophet" and enough interest in classical music (enough to call Romain Rolland-among others- a liar!). Among other relative evidence also see: Vitt-Maucher, Gisela. "E. T. A. Hoffmanns "Ritter Gluck" und E. A. Poe's "The Man of the Crowd": Eine Gegenuberstellung," The German Quarterly, 43 (1970), 35-46.

    addendum to note**: In the meantime part of Le petite Prophete (first published 1744) has appeared online (Music & Culture in Eighteenth-century Europe by Enrico Fubini, Bonnie J. Blackburn, Wolfgang Freis, Lisa Gasbarrone, Michael Louis etc-THANKS). The text confirms imo that "Gluck" IS young Cocchi (aka Grimm, Chastellux, Dixmerie, Rousseau etc) and IS Saint Germain (a demonstration of tremendous self confidence and unlimited "Bourbon support" at the time)!!!

    Next: Two minor discrepancies discovered in Cocchi’s timeline.
    Last edited by yanni; 01-05-2009 at 03:04 AM. Reason: addendum to note ** (adding more aliases to Saint Germain/Cocchi)

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    Two minor discrepancies discovered in Gioachino Cocchi’s timeline.

    In short:

    Our hero’s task, from 1752 to 1784, was not just to manage,control and censor muses, literary arts and sciences (alongside with cousin Charles Nicholas Cochin responsible for the secondary arts):

    His main duty was what one would call today “Ministry of Culture” or in those Days “Propaganda fide”: To promote France’s interests worldwide.

    Many worked for him but he also personaly undertook “frontline” assignments such as his travels to Russia and America.

    He worked as a double agent within France as well: Monmorency,where “Epinay sur Seine” and La Chevrette are located, was Duc d’Orleans territory.

    He lived in constant danger consequently and had to use multiple identities, had to lie, had to use other people’s identities when needed and, occasionally, have others appear propably as “Saint Germain”.

    He was a planner, a stage manager, a protagonist, an actor, a liar…

    ….BUT….

    He (as Grimm, Chastellux or Saint Germain) NEVER(*note) once mentioned the family name, in any form, in his (their) works, he NEVER revealed the family secret!

    In his later years he himself tried to “correct” parts of his “other lifes” realising that “Chastellux” and “Grimm” at least would be scrutinised by historians and his main “lie” would leak, he therefore collected and send to his trusted friend Catherine not just her correspondence to him but Voltaire’s library, including her letters to Voltaire, Galiani’s, Diderot’s archives and anything else of relevance propably as well.

    His correspondence to Mme d’Epinay is lost, what she, and other “salonieres” published , he controlled to begin with.

    Rousseau’s “Confessions”-see JJRousseau's indicatory wiki bio: The work was "partly published", 1782, after Mme d'Epinay "stopped" him writing. "Grimm" was , understandably, absent(!)-remind the reader too much of their comic opera to be taken seriously historically!

    On top of all that: His literary work was subsequent censored, modified and falsified by his eager biographers, friends and foes alike, the former to protect the Bourbons, the others to diminish him.

    As such very little written on (or by) him is “dependable”.

    Having double checked his “pile of piles” of a timeline, the following two “minor discrepancies” -only(!)-were found concerning his trips to Russia (late 1774-mid 1775) and America (1780-1782 as per his book), ie his two most important foreign diplomatic assignments by far.

    A.With regard to the latter (first discrepancy):

    He did not arrive to America with Rochambeau’s force-as often written-but later on in the year: He is registered present in his seigneury Epinay sur Orge on 17/06/1780 (at http://g.alhinc.free.fr/Epinay/Annees/1780) accompanied by his wife “Germain Marie Louise Elisabeth(F), reside a Paris, epouse du Parrain” ....

    .....to be then welcomed by Rochambeau ….

    ...September 20, 1780 (Wednesday) Rochambeau and Chastellux made a round trip through Bolton during the trip to the Hartford Conference. They stayed at the White Tavern on Hutchinson Road, now Andover. (Bib 1 note 17 on pg. 25)

    Back in France, his place (at Epinay sur Orge) is taken by a cousin of his “Cochin Henry” Conseiller d’etat seigneur d’epinay, (2/09/1780 ), who later declares himself as Cochin Henry avocat -garde archives de Lorraine**.

    This happens 18/8/1782 at the funeral of his (Cochin-Cocchi-Chastellux's etc) daughter Marie Henriette’s (23 ans), also witnessed by Lambert Jean Philippe conseiller dy roi but not by either parent of unfortunate Marie!

    As such, data of the Epinay sur Orge registry (site online) are trustworthy, something to remember while examining the second “discrepancy” in next post.

    *Note: highly indicative that Chastellux even ommits astronomer Cassini from his books.
    ** Definitely another person, despite the name likeness: A branch of the family did live in Lorraine and was indeed in control of the Lorraine archive whereas our heroe's duties are registered (in same site) differently (councelor of the King, intendant of finances etc).
    Last edited by yanni; 09-15-2008 at 03:18 AM. Reason: Cassini clarification

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    to err is human!

    The next discrepancy is not really minor:

    11th October 1773 our hero is registered at Epinay (sur Orge) witnessing a marriage of a young couple with amusing (in bold) names…..

    St marc Antoine Louis, 23 ans, résidant… Paris, Rue des 4 fils ,Ecuyer munitionaire des vivres, (S) fils de St marc Alexis Louis, Conseiller secretaire du roy, (S) et de Grosposte Scholastique, résidant… Paris, rue des 4 fils Ballon defferant Marc Marie Elisabeth, 17 ans, mineure, résidant… Paris rue St antoine, (S) fille de +Ballon defferant Claude Nicolas, Colonel d’infanterie, (S) et de Lavier Elisabeth , résidant… Paris rue St antoine
    Tem: .Gosselin Alexandre Marie, résidant… Paris,rue des 4 fils, (S)
    Prieur Jean, résidant… Paris rue du vieux colombier, ami de l’époux, (S)
    Cochin Auguste Henry, résidant…Paris, rue de l’universite , ami de l’épouse, Intendant des finances, (S)
    Baize Bernard Hyacinthe, résidant… Paris,rue de l’universite , ami de l’épouse, Controleur general des finances

    ( http://g.alhinc.free.fr/Epinay/Annees/1773)

    ….whereas his otherself, “Grimm”, is known, historically, to have been at St Petersburg, September 15th 1773 to spring 1774.

    Wilhelmina Luisa von Hessen-Darmstadt was getting married to prince Paul, the wedding scheduled for October 9th, 1773, and Grimm accompanied her as her father(?), Kaiser Joseph I-this info, translated from a german site, is wrong! Joseph I died long before 1771-made him a baron in 1771.

    Having –in previous post-labelled “dependable” his data of above Epinay site, what are we to assume, whom are we to trust?

    Is every “scholar” lying ……

    OR

    ….was our “unique revelation” on the main identities of Saint Germain so ridiculously WRONG?
    Last edited by yanni; 07-25-2008 at 11:25 AM. Reason: text

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    Turning Pb into Au and v.v.

    Part 1

    The closing question of last post, dear reader, kept me (“yourstruly”tires me) in meditation the last couple of days:

    Not that I was for one moment unsure on the correctness of my findings and relevant statements made- the mind always knows better than the pen-but imagine what my virtual “scholarly opponent” would have made out of my hero’s “last discrepancy” at his Epinay (sur Orge) precious register!!

    He falsified it and, like the historian he was, left his mark behind.

    There is a clear message in the words he selected:

    Grospost, Scholastique,Ballon,defferant:

    No matter how the words are reordered, the message is

    this is a gross lie, an empty message created out of neccessity by someone who cares for the detail,….

    In addition:

    Munitionaire des vivres:

    An official position in French military, guardian of live munition (gun powder, explosives), “varatario” in Italian, the word already mentioned in “Poe Announcement”, a post held in Hydra by his cousin, Lazarus Cocchini*(Note below).
    See also: p42 “Documents Illustrative of the Canadian Constitution” (Article 23, The capitulation of Montreal)!

    rue des 4 fils :

    Housing today the “fonds” of the pre-Revolutionary Academy of Art:
    (Fonds de l'acadιmie : Archives nationals (rue des 4 fils).
    http://byc.ch/hga/ressources.html it propably housed the Academy itself back then!

    Thus his message should now read as above plus …. an artist at war

    At the time he was all of that and more (In following part 2)

    *Note: Not just Hydra: Recent research indicates that "Saint Germain" (under an alias-initials P.S.K.- still existing in Russia, hence not to be revealed) was captain of the guards of Saint Petersburg, 1774-5, and owned a house in the ammunition yard next to Catherine's Palace
    Last edited by yanni; 09-24-2008 at 04:13 AM. Reason: add note re his "varatario" duties in Saint Petersburg!!

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    continued from previous

    Part 2

    No, not magic, just hard work:

    His coded message was ONLY received AFTER* (note 1) his timeline was filled in detail (1769-1775) and then examined together with relevant books**(note 2).

    There were other letters as well written by him while in Russia at the time (I.Gorbatov) and the conclusions:
    -he was indeed in St Petersburg***(note 3),
    -did trust Voltaire
    -(and therefore his Epinay data were “not so dependable”)...
    ...were thus reached….

    ….but “something was wrong" with Mlle L’Espinasse’s correspondence to Guibert and had to be clarified! (part 3 following)

    Note 1 Before that, when the second discrepancy was originally noticed, the first thoughts were: He had either persuaded Catherine to mislead Voltaire (her letter to Voltaire re his presence in St Petersburg as from September 15th, 1773) for some reason or that he perhaps had falsified her correspondence, following Voltaire’s death in 1778, when he intermediated for his library and her letters be send to her in Russia.

    Note 2 Mainly:
    a)The Republic of Letters: A Cultural History of the French Enlightenment by Dena Goodman.
    b) The Story of a Throne (Catherine II. of Russia) by Kazimierz Waliszewski
    c) Full text of “Letters Mlle De Lespinasse”
    http://www.archive.org/stream/letter...68mbp_djvu.txt
    d) Catherine the Great and the French Philosophers of the Enlightenment (Inna Gorbatov).

    Note 3 Narishkin(not Cocchi-"Grimm") accompanies Diderot from Holland to St Petersburg. The wedding scheduled for October 9, 1773. They arrive October 8th. Everybody knew the wedding was engineered by Grimm. (p167, 168 ) Catherine writes to Voltaire(Sept 11/22,1773) that Grimm has been in Petersburg from the mid September 1773. Grimm writes two letters to Nesselrode, 2nd and 19th November 1773(page 176) and another two Jan 14th and feb 7th. Frederick dislikes Diderot (p180). From September 1773 to April 1774 Grimm met and had long conversations with Catherine almost daily. (p214) -in page 213 the “classic story” on Grimm. In pages 221-222 few letters she wrote him 1779(one), sept 7, 1780 (one) and then 1787 (one) and 1791 (one) etc. (I.Gorbatov)
    Last edited by yanni; 08-30-2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason: text

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    continued from previous

    Part 3

    “something was wrong" with Mlle L’Espinasse’s correspondence….

    Mle L’Espinasse and her letters to Guibert*(note 5) (June, 1773 to December, 1775) guided me to the recent discovery of Kaiser Frederic’s correspondence to “Grimm&Co" and thereby to Frederic’s older links to Cocchi&family *1(note below). Having in the meantime supplemented my timeline accordingly, I can now neither complain for the nauseating and nonsensical nonentity of her and- the sorry adventure of-her “correspondences“, nor for the distinct limits of imagination of her numerous creators*2, among them a “M.Charles Henry“- known to us already from the Poe Announcement, Cocchi’s only known "french legitimate" son who also kept Charles Nicholas Cochin(fils)'s unpublished biography- who appears among her editors in 1887*3, ie posthumously! (27 June 1771 at Epinay sur Orge: The baptism of Cochin Henry Charles (4 months old) father and mother absent)

    In a philanthropic mood today, I moreover refuse to address the issue of her fictitious character from a psychoanalytic perspective and do really feel a compassion for the many lost souls who were taken in to do so over time, lady writers in particular!

    Mle L’Espinasse’s freakish carricature, who allegedly “assisted’’ Chastellux obtain a seat (#2) in Académie française, le 27 avril 1775.....

    .....was in fact born 1809 specifically to give life to “Grimm, Chastellux and Claude Louis de Saint Germain’’ for reasons already explained (see also note 2).

    She did exist nevertheless (possibly as Mme d’Epinay’s alias-a part of her lost correspondence to Cocchi-"Grimm" is possibly used) eversince 1775 but was highly suspect and "invisible" at the time and thereafter, otherwise Buffon, Cocchi’s associate and president of the Académie française-(fauteuil #1)-who promoted "Chastellux" to his Academy as above, would not have written his February 25th 1775 LETTRE CCXII A MADAME NECKER insisting he had never seen her.

    For all the above, my compliments to her creators as well as those who maintain her myth-among others-those in particular who have…..

    ….décidé de se limiter, dans un premier temps, à ce qu'il est convenu d'appeler la «période Grimm», celle qui va….a fin février 1773.*4

    They helped me a lot!

    Bonjour La France

    Note 1: google for "Barbara Campanini, Ludwig and Heinrich von Cocceji" -will it ever end this name game? !

    Note 2:ready to justify all adjectives used if needed, preferably when the summer is over.

    Note 3:Lettres inédites de Mademoiselle de Lespinasse à Condorcet, à d'Alembert, à Guibert, au comte de Crillon. Publiées avec des lettres de ses amis, des documents nouveaux et une étude par M. Charles Henry. Paris, Dentu, 1887!

    Note 4:http://c18.net/cl/cl_pages.php?nom=cl_projet

    Note 5: see http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenb...00/21frd10.htm
    L'Espinasse's "Guibert" is another alias of Saint Germain.
    Last edited by yanni; 08-30-2008 at 12:11 PM. Reason: add note 5

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    "Avaunt! avaunt! from fiends below, the indignant ghost is riven…"

    The glory of a nation and an age is always the work of a few great persons, and it dissappears with them .....

    .....wrote Cocchi-“Grimm”, allegedly from Gotha-Weishaupt’s last refuge-to then conclude...

    ....My writing will kill me!

    Following his wishes to the letter, French historians, including- even headed by-his French cousins, decided to assist him vanish, killing and burying him along with their national pride and self respect,after loosing what he had accomplished for France.

    Two centuries from his death, it’s not just the hired scholars we saw “researching” him indefinitely, it’s the others too, those particular “willing individuals” driven by the very same “dark forces”, his enemies, that continue the big lie, calling him names, a “charlatan comte de Saint Germain” who “sided with Weishaupt’s Illuminati and Cagliostro”!

    Thanks to the web, this will end and he will be reinstated...

    …from grief and groan, to a golden throne, beside the King of Heaven!

    Afterall he did side with Rome as well in 1775!
    Last edited by yanni; 07-31-2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason: presentation

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    …to a golden throne, beside the King of Heaven…

    …possibly, but perhaps not: Who knows what’s on the other side?

    He never pretended he did know, he remained to the end a sceptic …and an enlightened monarchist as well!
    His last years were spent in great wealth, among art treasures he had ammased throughout his life, in his Palace in Saint Petersburg and died in full years, 1811.

    Count Alexander Sergeievitch Stroganoff, Cocchi-Saint Germain’s last alias!

    (To be sufficiently documented in next)
    Last edited by yanni; 08-02-2008 at 10:14 PM.

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    Strogonov

    The road to reach and witness Saint Germain’s 1811 ascencion as “Strogonov”, begins 1778 with Voltaire’s initiation -Ben Franklin was also initiated that day-to the Lodge of the Nine Sisters (Neuf soeurs, the nine parts of the "world" as administered by The Strict Observance)-in Paris.

    A controversial initiation, less than two months before his death, and by a Russian count no less!

    As “Grimm” recalls:

    ….a franc-maçonnerie. Il a été reçu en particulier par M. le comte de Strogonoff; il l’a été dans la loge des Neuf-Soeurs….http://www.voltaire-integral.com/Grimm/Avr1778.html

    Surely a strange “last will and testament” by Ferney’s patriarch requiring further examination:

    It turns out this Russian count…

    …having received his count title by the Holy Roman Emperor himself
    http://www.imperialcollegeofprincesa...wsn/page3.html

    ….…a distinguished member of the “Strict Observance” known as “ab Amiantho” as well (wwww.oisot.com/Obituaire_SOT.php )

    …his immense fortune,originating from fur and fair trading practices ,enabled him to built his Palace at 17, Nevsky Prospekt, Saint Petersburg
    (http://www.nevsky-prospekt.com/palaces/thepalaces.html) ….

    …a “European art collector” kind of man who…

    ..avait fait comme eux plusieurs séjours en France et avait formé une collection rare de tableaux, médailles et gravures et réuni une riche bibliothèque ; il logeait dans son palais et pensionnait les artistes et les gens de lettres pauvres. …..

    For his efforts to civilize Russia, Catherine appointed him….

    ….président de l’Académie des beaux-arts de Saint-Pétersbourg.
    http://www.buffon.cnrs.fr/correspond...20BUFFON&dest=

    Curiously enough however…..

    1)According to "Saint-Pétersbourg ou l'enlèvement d'Europe" by
    Natalia Smirnova, Historienne et écrivain
    (http://www.clio.fr/BIBLIOTHEQUE/sain...t_d_europe.asp )

    President of the Academy was NOT Strogonoff ...

    ....but ...

    “Grimm’s” friend …le comte Chouvalov, président de l'Académie, avait commandé les plans d'un bâtiment que l'on voulait alors installer à Moscou…

    (Whereas a strange Russian architect actually designed the Saint Petersburg Academy:L'architecte russe Alexandre Kokorinov *(see Note below)élabora les plans de l'actuelle Académie de Saint-Pétersbourg à partir de ce projet, avec l'aide de Jean-Baptiste Vallin de la Mothe….)

    2)Inna Gorbatov-in her book on Catherine (mentioned in previous post)-carefully avoids to mention “Stroganoff” or "Strogonov" etc-going as far in fact as to avoid mentioning the word “arts" alltogether

    Finally:

    In a relative study titled “Du Moujik à l'artiste." (L'académie impériale des beaux-arts de Saint-Pétersbourg (1757-1802)), Thèse soutenue en 2000 at Sorbonne, Paris, France:

    Count Strogonov, the strange parisien Russian, is also carefully and totally avoided- unlike “Grimm” receiving discreetly the relative laurels-the “misunderstanding” attributed to “les archives”…

    Les archives de l'Académie des beaux-arts de Saint-Pétersbourg antérieures à 1917 sont conservées dans le fonds 789 des Archives historiques de l'Etat russe à Saint-Pétersbourg ; une partie de ce fonds a été publiée entre 1864 et 1866 par Piotr N. Petrov à l'occasion du centenaire de la réforme de Catherine II. Les Archives centrales des actes anciens de Russie, situées à Moscou, comprennent la correspondance privée des souverains russes, notamment celle de Catherine II avec Melchior Grimm.

    ..whereas the duties of “Stroganov”- to invite young european artists to Saint Petersburg- are delicately transferred to “Grimm”:

    A la fin d'un cycle complet d'études, les meilleurs étudiants, en termes de résultats, mais aussi de comportement, étaient envoyés à Paris pour se former auprès de ceux que les autorités académiques considéraient comme les meilleurs artistes de l'Europe, et à Rome pour y découvrir “ les grands modèles éternels ” selon les termes du baron Melchior Grimm dans une lettre à Catherine II. Les rapports trimestriels qu'ils avaient l'obligation d'envoyer représentent la source la plus complète et la plus précise dont pouvait disposer la Russie sur l'actualité artistique occidentale. Les problèmes de discipline ne peuvent occulter l'utilité d'un tel séjour, puisque la quasi-totalité des professeurs académiques étaient anciens pensionnaires.
    http://theses.enc.sorbonne.fr/document4.html

    Catherine never corresponded with her "count Srogonov" while he was in Paris nor does his name appear in any of her letters to "Grimm".

    QED

    Bonjour Sorbonne!

    Note: He was not a "young c o c k" (κοκόρι in grk) anymore at the time but, as a devoted life long vegetarian, he was "functional" to his very end! (possibly the subject of next post)
    Last edited by yanni; 08-03-2008 at 10:26 AM. Reason: κοκόρι

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