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Thread: Rilke & Co.

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    Rilke & Co.

    This illuminating article about Rilke, Rodin, Auden, Balzac, Steichen, Yeats, Sandburg, Brodsky, Cezanne and Paula Modersohn-Becker (here quoted in part) was written under the title "Genius Envy" by Geoff Dyer. The interactions between artists intimate and remote are very telling of Rilke's and Rodin's evolution as poet and sculptor: -- "After Rodin, the next important influence on Rilke was C�zanne. Rilke’s Letters on C�zanne reveals the enormous influence of the C�zanne retrospective in Paris, in the summer of 1907. He discovered there not a refutation but an intensification of what he had learned from Rodin: fruits, in C�zanne’s still lifes, 'cease to be edible altogether, that’s how thinglike and real they become, how simply indestructible in their stubborn thereness.' And again, as with Rodin (but more confidently and explicitly now), what he discovers is important primarily for what it enables Rilke to realize about himself and his own work: 'It’s not really painting I’m studying. . . . It was the turning point which I recognised, because I had just reached it in my own work or had at least come close to it somehow, after having been ready, probably for a long time, for this one thing which so much depends on.'

    The extent to which this breakthrough into “limitless objectivity” was achieved is revealed in “Requiem for a Friend” (1908). The poem was written in response to the death, several weeks after giving birth, of the artist Paula Modersohn-Becker (who had discovered C�zanne years earlier). It is, simultaneously, a lament for his friend and an essay on the art to which they were both indebted:

    For that is what you understood: ripe fruits.
    You set them before the canvas, in white bowls,
    and weighed out each one’s heaviness with your colors.
    Women too, you saw, were fruits; and children, molded
    from inside, into the shapes of their existence.
    And at last you saw yourself as a fruit, you stepped
    out of your clothes and brought your naked body
    before the mirror, you let yourself inside
    down to your gaze; which stayed in front, immense,
    and didn’t say: I am that; no: this is.
    So free of curiosity your gaze
    had become, so unpossessive, of such true
    poverty, it had no desire even
    for you yourself; it wanted nothing: holy.
    (from Stephen Mitchell’s translation)

    There are several directions one might follow from here: From C�zanne to poems by Charles Tomlinson (“C�zanne at Aix” in Seeing is Believing [1960]) and Jeremy Reed (“C�zanne” in Nineties [1990]). Or, sticking with Rilke and Paula Modersohn-Becker, to Adrienne Rich’s important corrective, “Paula Becker to Clara Westhoff” (Clara was Paula’s friend and Rilke’s wife), in which a poet speaks as a painter addressing a poet—thereby offering a crisp critique of Rilke:

    Do you know: I was dreaming I had died
    giving birth to the child.
    I couldn’t paint or speak or even move.
    My child—I think—survived me. But what was funny
    in the dream was, Rainer had written my requiem—
    a long, beautiful poem, and calling me his friend.
    I was your friend
    but in the dream you didn’t say a word.
    In the dream his poem was like a letter
    to someone who has no right
    to be there but must be treated gently, like a guest
    who comes on the wrong day.

    In real life our chances of meeting people are limited and contingent. In the realm of art and literature those constraints are removed; everyone is potentially in dialogue with everyone else irrespective of chronology and geography."

    {excerpt} q1 -- http://www.poetryfoundation.org/arch...html?id=180435
    Last edited by quasimodo1; 04-28-2008 at 12:08 AM. Reason: link

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    Rilke file on IMDB!?! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0727208/

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    Wonderful essay. Thank you for posting it. It’s good to be reminded, I think, that no one operates in a vacuum. I sometimes see all of art as one body, moving and changing in small but significant ways with each influence that comes its way. And it’s interesting to consider the cross-over influences from one discipline to the next. Also in that essay is this from Frank O’Hara:

    "I am not a painter, I am a poet.
    Why? I think I would rather be
    a painter, but I am not."

    I know very little about Rilke (something I am determined to correct). Do you know, quasimodo1, (does anyone here know), what is being referred to as "limitless objectivity"? This seems to suggest a kind of Platonic form sort of thing to me. A search (or discovery) of the absolute real. "Cezanne’s still lifes....simply indestructible in their stubborn thereness." Yes? No? Maybe?

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    "limitless objectivity"?

    To Chester: My take on "limitless objectivity" as referenced in the essay above and generally as an objective for poet or sculptor or artist is on one level...literal and on the level Rilke or Rodin might have been reaching for is an attempt at poetry where the least amount of ego or id becomes part of the poem (or other artform). I see this as self-defeating for poetry because my view of poetry is of a concept, feeling, description or comment that obtains its quality from maximum lack of objectivity. You could make a point that a poem with this limitless objectivity, if pulled off, would be more Artfull in that no analysis or backround information about the author is necessary because it communicates universally and without the anthropromorphic additions which would so intensely personalize a poem. It is an ideal which I'm not sure is desirable, at least in poetry. But then, who am I to say that giants like Rilke did not know what the ultimate would be. q1
    Last edited by quasimodo1; 07-04-2008 at 09:39 PM.

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    I think I’m inclined to agree with you, q1. With art, aren’t we looking for an interpretation from the artist (or poet, as the case may be)? This is what makes the subject interesting, I think. We are seeing it from a different perspective. Then again, limitless objectivity (were it obtainable, although obtainability seems contradictory to the concept of limitlessness) would be a different perspective as well. But since I don’t think it can exist, practically-speaking, then I think we’re relegated to interpretation. And I’m not seeing anything wrong with that. That, after all, seems to me to be the job of the artist or poet.

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    Rilke's early years

    Rilke had a lifetime friendship with Lou Andreas-Salome', he met with Leo Tolstoy once. He made a sketch of Leonid Pasternak. In the summer of 1900 Rilke stayed at Wordswede, an artists "colony", and met sculptress Clara Westhoff and the painter, Paula Modersohn-Becker. He eventually marries Westhoff and in 1901, they have a daughter, Ruth. By 1902 this mairrage ends though they remain close. Due to an accute lack of funds, Rilke takes on writing commissions; he travells to Paris where he meets Auguste Rodin and becomes his secretary. About this time, perhaps because of Rodin's influence, Rilke's style ceases to be what some would call subjective and sentimental and his writing becomes intensely compact and his poems begin to exhibit connections to each other, eventually taking on the concise and sequential quality of unified sound, image and theme...a watermark of his greatest work.

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    Rilke & Co.

    Rainer Marie Rilke -- Narcissus --1913, April, Paris -------------------------------------------------------And this: this escapes from me and dissolves in the air and in the aura of the grove, leaves me softly and becomes mine no longer and gleams, because it meets no enmity. -- This rises incessantly away from me, I try to stay, I wait, I linger; but all my borders hasten elsewhere, rush out and even now are there. -- In sleep also. Nothing binds us in. Pliant core in me, kernel full of weakness that can't control its fruitflesh. Fleeing, O flight from all places on my surface. -- What forms down there and must resemble me and quivers up in bleary outlines, -- it might have taken whape that way inside a woman; but I could not attain it -- as I struggled toward it pressing into her. Now it lies open in the apathetic scattered water, and I can gaze at it for ages under my wreath of roses. -- It is not loved there. Down there is nothing but the equanimity of tumbled stones, and I can see my sadness. Was this my image in her eyes' flashing? -- Did it surge into her dream like this as some sweet fear? I can almost feel her fright. For as I lose myself inside my gaze: I could think that I am deadly. {translated by Edward Snow, not written originally in prose format}
    Last edited by quasimodo1; 06-27-2008 at 08:55 PM. Reason: prose format

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    Rainer Maria Rilke

    O the curves of my longing through the cosmos,

    and on all the streaks: my being's flung-outness.

    Many an aspect returning only after a thousand

    years on the sad ellipsis of its momentum and

    passing on. Hastening through the once-existent

    future, knowing itself in the year's seasons of airily,

    as an exact influence almost starlike in the

    overwakeful apparatus for a short time trembling.

    Rainer Maria Rilke, Venice, mid-July, 1912 -- {translated by Edward Snow}

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    unidentified hit record blp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester View Post
    (does anyone here know), what is being referred to as "limitless objectivity"? This seems to suggest a kind of Platonic form sort of thing to me. A search (or discovery) of the absolute real. "Cezanne’s still lifes....simply indestructible in their stubborn thereness." Yes? No? Maybe?
    Well...Kant might have a few things to say about (the fundamental impossibility of perceiving) the absolute real.

    It seems to me, just from what's here, that what Rilke gets from the Cezanne still lives' 'stubborn thereness' is a rather uncanny sense of presence that overwhelms ones subjectivity and, thereby, one's sense of self. It sounds similar to the effect often ascribed to meditation where, at some point, one's sense of self 'dissolves in the absolute'. Meditations that involve close observation of an object (such as one of Cezanne's apples) seem particularly relevant. The more you look, the less familiar the object becomes; or, to put it more accurately perhaps, the more you realise how unfamiliar the object is. The more you realise how little you know about objects, the more you realise your assumptions about yourself may have been too much too. This awakening to one's own unknowing looks to me like the beginning of Rilke's limitless objectivity.

    To expect, instead, a subjective 'interpretation' from a poet sounds Freudian, in that it accords with the psychoanalytic insight that we always reveal something of our selves in what we say whether we intend to or not. In poetry, especially, where conversational conventions are suspended, one might well expect the greater freedom to associate to reveal more of the psyche.

    How to square this with the selflessness of Rilke's limitless objectivity - the insight, in fact, that there is no self to reveal? (how can there be if objectivity is limitless?) Of course there is no real contradiction. What goes on in psychoanalysis is the same as in the defamiliarising meditative observation of the apple. A great deal of what is revealed in free associative trawls through the psyche are, in effect, absurdities - old assumptions and effects of conditioning that, when examined, simply don't make logical sense - and thus, again, you find you know less than you assumed. It's the old peeling back of the layers of the onion - with nothing knowable at the core: the self as Kantian noumenon.

    Thanks for posting this, quasimodo. Lovely stuff.
    Last edited by blp; 07-01-2008 at 09:36 AM.

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insightful commentary, BLP. In your essay like treatment, I especially like "...A great deal of what is revealed in free associative trawls through the psyche are, in effect, absurdities - old assumptions and effects of conditioning that, when examined, simply don't make logical sense - and thus, again, you find you know less than you assumed. It's the old peeling back of the layers of the onion - with nothing knowable at the core: the self as Kantian noumenon." Shades of Gunter Grass' Peeling the Onion. Here is another from Rilke's uncollected works...
    Last edited by quasimodo1; 07-01-2008 at 03:08 PM.

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    Rainer Maria Rilke

    THE SPANISH TRILOGY -- (part 1)

    -----------------From this cloud-- look: that so

    wildly covers the star that just shone there-- (and

    from me), from these mountains across the way,

    which hold night, nightwinds, for a while-- (and

    from me), from this stream on the valley's floor,

    which catches the gleam of torn sky-clearings--

    (and from me), from me and from all of this to

    make a single thing, Lord: from me and those deep

    soughs with which the herd, put up inn the fold,

    waits out the great dark cessation of the world--,

    ....


    {--Ronda,

    Spain, early January 1913 -- translated by Edward

    Snow}

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    unidentified hit record blp's Avatar
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    You Who Never Arrived


    You who never arrived
    in my arms, Beloved, who were lost
    from the start,
    I don't even know what songs
    would please you. I have given up trying
    to recognize you in the surging wave of the next
    moment. All the immense
    images in me-- the far-off, deeply-felt landscape,
    cities, towers, and bridges, and unsuspected
    turns in the path,
    and those powerful lands that were once
    pulsing with the life of the gods-
    all rise within me to mean
    you, who forever elude me.

    ....


    Translated by Stephen Mitchell

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    "...Streets that I chanced upon,--
    you had just walked down them and vanished.
    And sometimes, in a shop, the mirrors
    were still dizzy with your presence and, startled,
    gave back my too-sudden image." JBI: For Rilke this reader feels the need for a superlative form of the word subtle and the word "power and clarity" need combination into another. This timeline that I've just been reading gives the impression the parts are far greater than the whole of his life. -- http://picture-poems.com/rilke/rilkebio.html
    Last edited by quasimodo1; 07-04-2008 at 09:41 PM. Reason: link

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    "The transformed speaks only to relinquishers. All holders-on are stranglers." A two line poem. {Bockel, early Autumn, 1917. ...translated by Edward Snow}

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    unidentified hit record blp's Avatar
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    So good. Why has it taken me so long to get into Rilke? I think I must have been unlucky with the first of his poems that I read.

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