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Thread: Joyce/ Portrait - Discussion Thread

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    Joyce/ Portrait - Discussion Thread

    James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

    I read the introduction last night (Oxford World's Classic edition). I will not explain in detail, but list some thoughts I found interesting. This way, you all can discover your own analysis and ideas.

    Early reviewers of Portrait characterized Joyce's writing as 'invincible honesty'. Others described his 'intellectual integrity, his sharp eyes, and his ability to set down precisely... He is a realist of the first order'. Joyce received mixed response from his 'sheer undecorated, unintensified truth', however, no doubt that he was one of the early sculptors of Modernism.

    As Joyce has described, he meant the novel to be 'almost autobiographical' (and in a reversal that had life imitating art). The novel traces the growth and development of an individual to the point that he or she walks out of the novel on the last page seemingly self-determined and self-determining.

    Portrait shows Joyce compressing, selecting the salient detail, arranging things to suit the aesthetic pattern of the novel, not to accord with the timing of his own life history. Things happen in this novel because of their significance to the portrait of Stephen that Joyce wishes to draw, because they reveal something about him (and the culture in which he exists).

    The themes that will exfoliate over the course of the novel are sounded: Irish history, politics and religion brought into the intimacy of family marked by the conflict between Irish Catholicism and English Protestantism; family's and society's inculcation of heterosexual norms; the expectation that moral behavior can be elicited and enforced through the threat of punishment; the aesthetic disposition of life (where 'art, alters nature').

    This is a nice vantage point... and commence with the discussioning.
    Last edited by Shore Dude; 11-18-2004 at 09:26 AM.

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    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
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    Sorry, just remembering that this book is available on the site here , in case anyone doesn't know or prefers it rather than buying the book. I'm have little time to spare right now, but I'll comment on it as soon as possible.
    Ningún hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

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    Peace is this way Jester's Avatar
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    the number of books that im reading jsut jumped up to nine, including this one... i started reading it last night at it seems disjointed, im only a couple of pages in but its hard to get a handle on whats really going on. anybody else feel that way? Does it get easier to read as you go?
    "It all comes down to what we make of ourselves, eh?"
    -The Fairy Godmother

    "Sing on, poor souls! The night is short, and the morning will part you forever!"
    - Uncle Tom's Cabin

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    I don't mean to be rude here, but please do post regarding our book of the month only, and not about other issues.

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    Shore Dude, that's an interesting post. But I dont know why the review doesn't give comment (even in brief?!) about the religious aspect of the story.

    I also found an interesting preface of the the book, which is a translated edition. The publisher stated that Joyce's are among the hardest literature works which are hard to understand, either from the ideas or the language point of views. But personally i think this is why his works are enjoyable (well at least that's what i think after reading thru page 65-so far). I mean it would challenge me to dig deeper to understand the essence of the story.
    And there's another interesting comment, it says that Joyce's works surpass the quality of Milton's, Dante's and Cervantes'. Now I dont know whether this review overrated Joyce's works or not (perhaps anyone could give an opinion about this).
    That's so far I can write so far.

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    Sub, you are correct. There is a large religious aspect to this novel, which I will just go back and add in to my post (for thoroughness). I think the religious themes are also juxtaposed with the political themes. Because (if I am not mistaken) right around late 1800s/ early 1900s, Ireland was struggling for independence from England. So there existed a clash between Irish Catholics and English Protestants.

    And as you guys mentioned, this is a tough book to read. I remember we read this my senior year in college for a lit theory class. I didn't know what was going on...

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    Peace is this way Jester's Avatar
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    I read some more of it last night and it did indeed get clearer to understand... that first couple of pages is confusing, anybody have any idea what's going on there before he gets to the school?

    I'm reading Dante at the moment as well and I find his poetry enjoyable but I don't think you can compare the two becuase after all they are two completly diffferent genres...

    In Joyce's novel does Dante resembe the poet in anyway? When I first read that, thats what I thought and it took me a while to realize that Dante was a female not a male.
    "It all comes down to what we make of ourselves, eh?"
    -The Fairy Godmother

    "Sing on, poor souls! The night is short, and the morning will part you forever!"
    - Uncle Tom's Cabin

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    I think it was a just brief story about Stephen's childhood, about his familiy and his hang out friends when he was just a little kid.


    [quote]I'm reading Dante at the moment as well and I find his poetry enjoyable but I don't think you can compare the two becuase after all they are two completly diffferent genres...[/qoute]


    yea, i'm quite agree with yours

    Dante was actually a former devout nun. So far (till page 107) no explanation in the story about why she decided not to be one
    Last edited by subterranean; 11-18-2004 at 09:40 PM.

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    I think he was just giving us a little insight into his family life. This morning while flipping station there was a movie on called "Parnell", pretty funny since I didn't know he even existed until I opened this book.
    Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda


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    Peace is this way Jester's Avatar
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    Here's a question for Catholic raised in boarding schools, Stephan thinks, "be in bed before the gas was lowered so that he might not go to hell when he died." Is he talking in teh literal sense and are children actually taught to believe this (not trying to be offensic or sarcastic, just curious, tone is so hard to convey in writing).
    "It all comes down to what we make of ourselves, eh?"
    -The Fairy Godmother

    "Sing on, poor souls! The night is short, and the morning will part you forever!"
    - Uncle Tom's Cabin

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    personally i think he did took it literally..infact he was just a kid who went to school where religions are strictly applied. read thru until the section where he considered himself a sinner with what he did, and this point of view somehow related to the teachings he used to have as kid (IMO)
    Last edited by subterranean; 11-21-2004 at 08:07 PM.

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    I didn't go to boarding school but I did go to catholic school. I don't think he was taught to be in bed by the time the light went out or he was going to hell. I think it was a leap that kids make ( I know I did): From what i remember we were told to be "good kids" (ie. say your prayers, listen to your teachers and parents, etc.) because bad kids went to hell. So, by that logic a kid that broke the rules (not being in bed on time) was a bad kid, therefor a kid who wasn't in bed on time was going to hell.
    Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda


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    well dont you think that he did took it literaly?
    bed on time = heaven
    not bed on time = hell

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    Peace is this way Jester's Avatar
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    hmmm.... okay thanks.
    "It all comes down to what we make of ourselves, eh?"
    -The Fairy Godmother

    "Sing on, poor souls! The night is short, and the morning will part you forever!"
    - Uncle Tom's Cabin

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    Quote Originally Posted by subterranean
    well dont you think that he did took it literaly?
    bed on time = heaven
    not bed on time = hell

    No, if he took it literally someone would have to have told him that if he wasn't in bed on time he would go to hell. I think he was taught right from wrong in such a way that using kid logic he came to the conclusion on his own.
    Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda


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