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Thread: The Qur'an as Literature

  1. #16
    Registered User Etienne's Avatar
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    If you read your Wikipedia links correctly (AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syr..._Of_The_Koran), you would have read that it is considered generally to have been written in Arabic, but someone holds the thesis (meaning it's not a fact, it's a thesis, big difference) that: "the Qur'an was not originally written exclusively in Arabic but in a mixture with Syriac, the dominant spoken and written language in the Arabian peninsula through the 8th century."

    None of the links you provided showed that Arabic would not have been the language of the Qur'an. There is not much doubt that Syrian contributed a lot to the Arabic language as Syrian was the "intellectual" language of the time in the region. But after that, I don't know and unless you provide some solid evidence...
    Last edited by Etienne; 03-19-2008 at 05:37 PM.
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  2. #17
    To be or not to be novlist*star*'s Avatar
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    I am Muslim..so,I want to tell you about The Holy Quran..
    1-Quran and Bible is not the same,in Quran you find real things..whereas the Bible there is alot of additional things by human..so it is not real.
    2-you can read The Holy Quran in English language...and if you read it you will see the clear differences between Quran and others books by yourself..
    Thank you for everyone who gave advice..

  3. #18
    Registered User Shield&Sword's Avatar
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    Perhaps i didnt make my self clear, i mean Holy Quran is EXACTLY the words of Mouhammad pbuh, not the memory and notices of companions.
    And about the denying historical facts i suggest that you re-read your post and Mr cristoph claims.

    Hope that the thread return to the main subject.

  4. #19
    Alive In Our Hearts mercy_mankind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shield&Sword View Post
    Hope that the thread return to the main subject.
    Me too!!!

  5. #20
    Registered User Etienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novlist*star* View Post
    I am Muslim..so,I want to tell you about The Holy Quran..
    1-Quran and Bible is not the same,in Quran you find real things..whereas the Bible there is alot of additional things by human..so it is not real.
    2-you can read The Holy Quran in English language...and if you read it you will see the clear differences between Quran and others books by yourself..
    Thank you for everyone who gave advice..
    I see you are a freethinker
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  6. #21
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    The OP of the thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwayAloneAlast View Post
    I have yet to read it, but I was wondering if anyone on here has ever read the Qur'an. If so, I was hoping somebody could tell me how they feel it rates as literature, i.e. in comparison to the Bible. I'm not interesting in converting to either religion, and I don't want to start a religious debate, I am just curious as to what people think of the Qur'an
    Please do not discuss the subject matter, not each other or others' religious choices.
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  7. #22
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    hello,
    well i've read the Qura'n many times and i found it so interesting. one, of course can get many Religious provisions from it, and if you are not interested in religion then you'll enjoy the beautiful stories that the Qura'n has. such as the story of the cave people,it is amazing. and many other stories...
    the language of the Qura'n is too clear that it is not of man.
    Let me tell you something that i feel comfort when reading the Qura'n that is why when ever i'm in trouble i just sit and read it.

    yours truely,
    lit_stu

  8. #23
    Regular Guy
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    Can you elaborate on what you mean by how it "rates" as literature? I don't know of any literature ranking other than popularity or critical acclaim. Both books (the Bible and the Koran) have high popularity and high critial acclaim. I'm pretty certain that the Bible has sold more copies, though, and that's the only measurable rating difference that I can offer.

    Otherwise, both books have been preserved very well since they were written, and they talk about similar subjects, but they don't agree with each other in all areas (like the treatment of non-believers and who Jesus is).

  9. #24
    Registered User Shield&Sword's Avatar
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    What Quran said about "non-believers">
    Surah 8 verse 60-61: [60] Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the Cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
    But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things).

    Quran teach muslims how to behave with people even if there was hate>
    ٍSurah 5 verse 8 [8] O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

    ٍSurah 2 verse 256: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

    ٍQuran teach muslims how to behave in war>
    Surah 9 verse 6: [6] If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

    Prophet Mouhammad pbuh said > the one who hurt "Thimian" (non muslims in islamic world) i am his opponent.

    Through history we can find how muslims respected "non-believers", for example when jews were killed in spain by the queen, in Germany, in Russia we find that the jews escaped to islamic world, to Morroco, Yemen, Persia, Iraq and were welcomed. No non-believers massacre can be registered in islamic history, while we find alot of massacres made against muslims like spain and non-muslims like Indians and Latin America.

    Islam is represented by his book "the Holy Quran", not media.

    I didnt mention what we have in bible so it wont be turned into debate, my post was a clarification.

  10. #25
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    If you read your Wikipedia links correctly (AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syr..._Of_The_Koran), you would have read that it is considered generally to have been written in Arabic, but someone holds the thesis (meaning it's not a fact, it's a thesis, big difference) that: "the Qur'an was not originally written exclusively in Arabic but in a mixture with Syriac, the dominant spoken and written language in the Arabian peninsula through the 8th century."

    None of the links you provided showed that Arabic would not have been the language of the Qur'an. There is not much doubt that Syrian contributed a lot to the Arabic language as Syrian was the "intellectual" language of the time in the region. But after that, I don't know and unless you provide some solid evidence...
    The link to the Wikipedia article was about one of many scholars who think that the Koran was written in Aramaic, or possibly another related language, which was later read as Arabic. The idea that the Koran may have been misread has been around for a long time, and a thorough treatment of the matter would be beyond what I would write on a forum.

    As to whether there was a written Arabic language in 632 CE before that time is questionable. I have read sources that said that there were five sample of written Arabic before that period, and I have read other sources that said that written Arabic was first used somewhat later than that time.

    If you are interested, then you should do some research. There are legitimate questions about the language, and I am not completely certain, and I don't care enough to do much more research into the matter.

  11. #26
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    "No non-believers massacre can be registered in islamic history,"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    http://www.aina.org/releases/20040807203428.htm
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  12. #27
    Registered User Shield&Sword's Avatar
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    First of all since the begin of the 1900 (before there was the colonization) there were no islamic governments, all we have are governments made by France, England, Germany.
    When i said non islamic massacres made by muslims i meant the countries with the islamic law (sharyah), you can read the history.
    Until now muslims are killed by the same governments that killed also non-muslims, not because the islamic sharyah say so but because they killed any one who say no to them.
    Thousands of muslims are jailed in islamic countries doomed by non islamic governments, by govenrments nominated by England who separated all islamic countries and put people who serve their goals. This is not islam, this is the unjustice.

    Look at our islamic history, in spain, spain the place that delivered islamic science to europe, when sharyah was the law.

    Believe me it would be better if you didnt post your wiki link and the assyrian site, it shows more what happened when sharyah is no more the law and show the goals of .......

    Tell me who killed millions in latin america in the name of ..... and indians in the name of .... and africans in the name of ..... and indians of india in the name of .... and jews in the name of .... and nowadays iraq in the name of ..... Afghanistan in the name of ...... Roanda in the name of ..... muslims in spain in the name of ...... muslims in sicilia (italy) in the name of ..... vietnam, china, the origin people of australia.
    Read what historical researchers about islamic history, read how the christians in Syria helped muslims against the romans because they treated them so bad, tell me about the millions of christians who still living in islamic countries and they very old church, while in spain and italy we find no one muslim or a mosque.
    Black history, black deeds, millions and millions of deaths, by whom?
    i dont want politics here, but the white history of islam is because the Quran tought muslims how to behave.

  13. #28
    Registered User Etienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    The link to the Wikipedia article was about one of many scholars who think that the Koran was written in Aramaic, or possibly another related language, which was later read as Arabic. The idea that the Koran may have been misread has been around for a long time, and a thorough treatment of the matter would be beyond what I would write on a forum.
    No, it's about some PARTS written in Syrian. You are being very sophistic here.
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  14. #29
    Registered User tractatus's Avatar
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    Sura Fussilet, verse 44.

    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    44. Had We sent this as a Qurán (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! a foreign (tongue) and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
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  15. #30
    dum spiro, spero Nossa's Avatar
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    I refuse to take Qura'an as a literary study, but if you wish to categorise it so, it's fine by me. The Qura'an is a highly eloquent book, if you know Arabic well, you'll know how to handle it. Something about all the translations of it makes its essence somehow missing to the reader (not that I don't encourage reading it in any other translations).

    I think the original post specificly asked about the literary value of the Qura'an, and not the history of the language it was written in. Using such a debate to prove that the Qura'an doesn't make sense or that it's 'wrong' is out of point here (not to mention disrespectful). One more thing is that it's a part of Arabic (and English, and probably any other language) that words can have more than one meaning in various contexts, it's simply a part of the language's greatness, and not only in Arabic, but in any other language.

    One last thing, Qura'an is NOT memories or comments, they're the direct and exact words that were said by God to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). This is the basis of the Islamic belief, and since we're NOT discussing beliefs here, I think it'd be better to discuss according to the previously mentioned fact.
    Last edited by Nossa; 03-21-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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