Poetic Work That Influenced Dante & Milton

[Zeruiah]

Hi,

I'm interested in reading classical poems by the authors Dante and Milton, and I think it would benefit myself to understand all of the preceeding works that have apparent influences to later works.

I know already that all of the epic poems owe much to Homer's Illiad and The Odyssey and Virgil's Aenid, but I'm not sure of any others past that point. I've heard Ovid's Metamorphoses has some influences, as well has perhaps Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. However, I'm not entirely sure about any of those, as they are merely nuances I've picked up from random parts of the internet.

So, do you know of any major literature/poems that impacted Dante and Milton's creative and stylistic thought while writing their masterpieces? Are they worth reading?

Thanks.

[stlukesguild]

Jeez... you're not asking for much, are you. Both Dante and Milton were very well read. Obviously both would have been more than familiar with the Bible, Homer... but more so Virgil, Ovid's Metamorphoses, and probably most of the classical Latin poets (Horace, etc...) Dante was almost there at the birth of the "modern" European lyric poem and was a contemporary of Guido Cavalcanti and was aware of the work of the Provençal poets, Arnaut Daniel, Bertrand de Born and Bernart de Ventadorn. He was certainly deeply influenced by the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine. I have also come across suggestions that Dante was more than aware of certain Arabic poets and philosophers. Milton, undoubtedly had not only the latin poets and the Bible as predecessors... but certainly Shakespeare as well.

[Zeruiah]

Can you elaborate on who the classical Latin poets Dante was inspired by were--namely the ones that I may easily find a Google Books result for?

[Etienne]

People always forget Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, which is one of the most important work of literature in the history of Europe... and it was a great influence to Dante, one of his main influences, even. About Milton I don't know specifically... - quick search said he was.

The Consolation of philosophy has been translated by King Alfred, Chaucer and Queen Elisabeth I, among others.

[J.D.]

I haven't forgotten Boethius! Dante, like Boethius, was writing to console himself in the face of the wrongs committed against him by his enemies—to say, hey, I’m going to heaven to look upon God while you all rot in hell. There are definite parallels.

But don’t forget St. Augustine's Confessions, too. Based on my readings, I would say Dante's ascension mirrors the structure of the Confessions. Plus, Dante expresses figuratively what Augustine states more explicitly: the pagan philosophers and poets can only take you so far; to find the truth you need love as a guide and the light of God to see the way.

[AuntShecky]

What about the source for the history of the fallen angels
in Paradise Lost? That story is not in the Bible (I guess we
can suppose that Milton used the King James version which was "new" in his day.) Instead, Milton must've looked into the Apocrypal books or studied ancient Hebrew legends of the Talmud, etc.

[stlukesguild]

This is indeed interesting. The Fall of the rebel Angels and The Fall of Satan were popular themes in the visual arts well before Milton. Like the Christian concept of hell and Purgatory they seem to have been concepts that developed over the ages based upon the most slight of sources. The most cited one is the translation of Isaiah 14:

14:4 You will recite this parable about the king of Babylonia: How has the oppressor come to an end, the arrogance been ended?
14:10 They will all proclaim and say to you, "You also have been stricken as we were; you are compared to us.
14:11 Brought down to the nether-world were your pride and the tumult of your stringed instruments; maggots are spread out under you, and worms are your covers.
14:12 How have you fallen from the heavens, O glowing morning star; been cut down to the ground O conqueror of nations?

The original Hebrew is taken to refer to the fall of the Babylonian kings due to their pride and Heylel or the "morning star" alludes to Venus. The entry in Wikipedia notes that "Jerome with the Greek Septuagint close at hand and familiarity with the pagan poetic traditions, translated Heylel as Lucifer in the Vulgate. This may also have been done as a pointed jab at a bishop named Lucifer, a contemporary of Jerome who argued to forgive those condemned of the Arian heresy." There is also another source to be found in the Qu'ran which narrates the Fall of Satan/Lucifer due to pride in refusing to bow to God's latest creation, Adam. Dante may have built upon both sources as well as traditional folk narrative and Church doctrine. Milton was almost certainly aware of the same.

[Etienne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel

This website amazes me every time I use it...

[Zeruiah]

This is indeed interesting. The Fall of the rebel Angels and The Fall of Satan were popular themes in the visual arts well before Milton. Like the Christian concept of hell and Purgatory they seem to have been concepts that developed over the ages based upon the most slight of sources. The most cited one is the translation of Isaiah 14:

14:4 You will recite this parable about the king of Babylonia: How has the oppressor come to an end, the arrogance been ended?
14:10 They will all proclaim and say to you, "You also have been stricken as we were; you are compared to us.
14:11 Brought down to the nether-world were your pride and the tumult of your stringed instruments; maggots are spread out under you, and worms are your covers.
14:12 How have you fallen from the heavens, O glowing morning star; been cut down to the ground O conqueror of nations?

The original Hebrew is taken to refer to the fall of the Babylonian kings due to their pride and Heylel or the "morning star" alludes to Venus. The entry in Wikipedia notes that "Jerome with the Greek Septuagint close at hand and familiarity with the pagan poetic traditions, translated Heylel as Lucifer in the Vulgate. This may also have been done as a pointed jab at a bishop named Lucifer, a contemporary of Jerome who argued to forgive those condemned of the Arian heresy." There is also another source to be found in the Qu'ran which narrates the Fall of Satan/Lucifer due to pride in refusing to bow to God's latest creation, Adam. Dante may have built upon both sources as well as traditional folk narrative and Church doctrine. Milton was almost certainly aware of the same.

Speaking of the Vulgate translation, do you think it will make a difference which translation I read? Dante definitely would have read the Vulgate translation while Milton would have read the Authorized King James version. Are there any irrefutable theological differences in the two I should note?

[stlukesguild]

Of course you might remember that Milton was more than fluent in Latin himself... actually composing any number of works in the ancient tongue.

[Zeruiah]

But it says in Wikipedia that Milton did in fact read the Authorized Version of the Bible. I'm often skeptical about Wikipedian articles, but I see no motive in misleading anyone over something as trivial as that.

What do you think? Is it likely Milton read the Vulagate version as well?

[JBI]

I am sure Milton had read at least the new testament in the original.

[Kafka's Crow]

One of the main influences on Dante's Inferno is the medieval Arabic writer, ibn i Arabi. The ideas of the divine intelligence and mercy as female (Beatrice) are from ibn i Arabi. On the other hand, the Islamic tenant of 'Mairaaj' or the Ascension of Mohammad where he went through both heaven and hell and saw the inhabitants of both places and returned within moments of earthly time is also a great influence. Naturally he was influenced by Virgil and Cavalcanti etc but he is the last major exponent of the influence of oriental thought on the West.

Milton, on the other hand, is more 'neo' classical. Although the Homeric simile shows itself again and again in 'Paradise Lost' still his main influences are Latin and English. Still he was too much of a revolutionary to be very influenced by any one figure among his predecessors, ''Things unattempted yet in prose or rime''. Although the Koran refers to the Satan's disobedience and Adam's expulsion, the Old Testament devotes first three chapters of Genesis to the Fall:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Thus Milton's main source was the Old Testament. I think I read somewhere that Milton could read Hebrew. I could be wrong but he did have enormous intellectual resources at his disposal. As far as the Battle in Heavens is concerned, maybe he had to create the episode as such depictions are among the traditions of epic poetry.

[JCamilo]

For understanding Dante, one good attempt is reading Il Convivio where he explains himself and it is filled with references that he used.

[sherlock]

i would read the Bible