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Thread: What is the point of human sufferring?

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    What is the point of human sufferring?

    So OK this is a question that for various personal reasons has been weighing on my mind recently. What in the view of other forum members here is the point of human suffering?

    I don't want any discussion about God, or religion, or anything like that - and I know that suffering isn't unique to humanity. But there is one aspect of human suffering that sets us apart from the animals - and that is our capacity to experience emotional suffering. (Again some might dispute this, but let's just assume for now that this is true too).

    So the question is, in the absence of any God (and let's just say for the sake of this discussion that this is simply a statement of fact - since this will help steer the topic) why do we suffer?

    Of course by suffer I mean when we loose someone through bereavement, or when a relationship ends, or when a friend betrays us, or when we hear of the suffering of others, or perhaps when we are very low or depressed (at which point) suffering can seem to become unbearable), or for any one of a million other reasons that we may suffer in this way.

    Some doctors and psychologists tend to treat suffering as a disorder - but I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean what would the world be like if there was no suffering in it? Would we be able to appreciate the suffering of others? Would we be able to experience joy? Would we still be able to feel compassion? Would love still have the same kind of meaning that it may have now?

    In short is a world without suffering a genuinely desirable thing for us to have?

    I just can't help feeling that our capacity to suffer is what makes us human - and that without this we would be no better off than many animals. Also this capacity to suffer in this way appears to have a deeper sense of meaning. It is to say the least 'inefficient' from an evolutionary perspective to suffer in this way - so why should this capacity even exist within us, if it isn't there 'for something.'

    Again, it seems that this argument might lend itself to a religious debate - but I do very much want to avoid this. There must be other reasons why people feel that suffering is relevant and/or important, both to us as a species and as individuals?

    If anyone has any specific literary or philosophical quotes on this topic, please feel free to share these too. (Indeed these would be very much appreciated).

  2. #2
    I don't quite understand where it is you're going with this... it seems you may as well asked what is the point of human joy?

    I don't think there is a point. If you say there is no god then there isn't much "point", or predetermined meaning, behind our existence and so there is no point to suffering or happiness.

    You could talk about the importance of suffering. What it teaches us about ourselves, about understanding others who suffer. The extent to which allows us to enjoy non-suffering more, etc.

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    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    Well, since you've set the parameters that religion and God (two of the things that give meaning to suffering) are outlawed here, then the answer is that there is no point to human suffering: it just happens and we as humans should try to avoid it at all costs.

    Things that "have a point" are viewed as having some greater meaning behind them - some end that the suffering justifies (hence the use of the word "point"). Once we decide that the universe is a place of random, blind forces, then suffering loses any possible "point" because it has no meaningful framework, no larger context inside of which to occur.
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

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    That depends on your perspective. I am a 'godless person', so suffering for me can't be understood (or even taken seriously) from this perspective.

    If it has other functions I think it is useful to understand what these other functions may be.

    It is possible to consider a number of deep philosophical topics in the absence of any belief in a God - or some other higher form of intelligence - although I can see how this may seem very difficult to do (and possibly even pointless) to someone who does have a strong belief of this kind.

    We may each have our own set of blinkers. But still we can see different aspects of the truth.

    But none of us can claim to own it all. My belief is that at least not all suffering is pointless -particularly emotional suffering. As I said, there is almost a certain sense that this is what defines us as a species. (Among perhaps other things).

    Take for example the loss of a loved one, or the breakdown of a relationship - why would this persist beyond a reasonable point - and potentially still remain painful many years later - perhaps even until we die, if this served no useful purpose (evolutionary or otherwise)? Does this not in some way infer that suffering may have a greater purpose - even if this purpose does not infer the existence of a God? Clearly good things can come from suffering - even if they may not appear good to those who are experiencing this kind of pain. I'm sure there are many artists, philosophers and writers who have encountered deep personal pain - but whose contribution to the world because of this has served to significantly enrich the pool of human culture.

    I am a computer scientist by profession - so not well versed in Literature and Philosophy, so surely people within this field have had a great deal to say about this throughout the ages?

  5. #5
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebus197 View Post
    So OK this is a question that for various personal reasons has been weighing on my mind recently. What in the view of other forum members here is the point of human suffering?

    I don't want any discussion about God, or religion, or anything like that - and I know that suffering isn't unique to humanity. But there is one aspect of human suffering that sets us apart from the animals - and that is our capacity to experience emotional suffering. (Again some might dispute this, but let's just assume for now that this is true too).

    So the question is, in the absence of any God (and let's just say for the sake of this discussion that this is simply a statement of fact - since this will help steer the topic) why do we suffer?

    Of course by suffer I mean when we loose someone through bereavement, or when a relationship ends, or when a friend betrays us, or when we hear of the suffering of others, or perhaps when we are very low or depressed (at which point) suffering can seem to become unbearable), or for any one of a million other reasons that we may suffer in this way.

    Some doctors and psychologists tend to treat suffering as a disorder - but I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean what would the world be like if there was no suffering in it? Would we be able to appreciate the suffering of others? Would we be able to experience joy? Would we still be able to feel compassion? Would love still have the same kind of meaning that it may have now?

    In short is a world without suffering a genuinely desirable thing for us to have?

    I just can't help feeling that our capacity to suffer is what makes us human - and that without this we would be no better off than many animals. Also this capacity to suffer in this way appears to have a deeper sense of meaning. It is to say the least 'inefficient' from an evolutionary perspective to suffer in this way - so why should this capacity even exist within us, if it isn't there 'for something.'

    Again, it seems that this argument might lend itself to a religious debate - but I do very much want to avoid this. There must be other reasons why people feel that suffering is relevant and/or important, both to us as a species and as individuals?

    If anyone has any specific literary or philosophical quotes on this topic, please feel free to share these too. (Indeed these would be very much appreciated).
    In fact suffering has been something that has been philosophized in many literary works and in religions too. In acality it has nothing to do with suffering.
    Many religions kind of believe that through sufferings or mortifications one gets purfied or it is a catharsis in point of fact.But truly it is not so at all.

    While suffering is very fundamental to life and we can not do away with and it is something integral to life, it is yet not something to philosophize or rationalize at all.

    Here we should not connect this issues to religiosity.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  6. #6
    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
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    It's partially evolutionary, depending on what kind of suffering we are talking about. It's biological instinct to react to certain stimuli with pain-if we step on a nail,our foot is made to suffer so we get off the nail to prevent further damage. In terms of mental and emotional suffering- perhaps the same evolutionary idea applies. Our bodies allow the feeling of suffering,be it emotional,physical or mental, as a message to us about how our body/mind is coping with certain stimuli.
    Of course, as humans we are all somewhat masochists and drama queens So perhaps we like to suffer a bit more than is neccesary...for the attention
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

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    Again I am not talking about physical pain. Also calling someone who has suffered from the loss of a loved one, or who suffers from a chronic form of depression a 'drama queen' is probably only the kind of statement that someone who has never encountered true extended suffering could make. Yet it remains possible at least that some good, or something meaningful can still emerge from this.

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    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Jebus, there was clearly no disrespect in that reply.

    But anyhow, to your question I recommend you read "Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas."

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    Personally I think that suffering is not only necessary, it's a beautiful part of life. Suffering, ecstasy and other extremes of emotion help us define what it is to be human and deal with emotion beyond our control. I for one would never want to live in a world that was emotionally flat enough to not involve suffering or sadness. On the subject of something meaningful emerging from suffering, I would argue that at least in this sense, whatever doesn't kill you actually does make you stronger. I guess the point I'm making here is that emotional maturity exists somewhat like weight training: the muscles only regrow stronger after they've gotten all torn up.

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    Dear Jebus,

    I do relate to that part about suffering because of the loss of a loved one and I am also thinking 'Why".Nicolai who posted said plaese read'Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas.Plaese let me know the author's name.I recommend Dr.Brian Weiss's book 'Many Lives,Many Masters'.I am also wanting to know the answer to Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by V.Jayalakshmi View Post
    ....Nicolai who posted said plaese read'Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas.Plaese let me know the author's name.
    Biography and etexts of Frederick Douglass
    http://www.online-literature.com/frederick_douglass/

    including "A Narrative on the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave"
    http://www.online-literature.com/fre...***_narrative/

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    Lovely Marauder Gadget Girl's Avatar
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    I think there is suffering because that is how we make life equal. You suffer, one day something good will happen to it, when you're happy, one moment you never know you are crying helplessly alone in a corner. What I mean is, you can't be happy if you don't suffer. Yeah, imagine if we don't feel sadness or frustration, we live our lives so perfect that you wanted nothing more, but there will be a time that you can't feel happiness because everyday of your life you're happy, you don't feel upset or wanted to punch the air because of your madness anymore.

    I guess that's what life is. Things don't come your way all the time.
    Click here to take the stupidity test.

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    now then ;)
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    To allow us to remember that there's always some poor sod worse off than we are, which in turn cheers us up and for a while forget about our own suffering for a while.
    There once was a scotsman named Drew
    Who put too much wine in his stew
    He felt a bit drunk
    And fell off his bunk
    And landed smack into his shoe
    ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King

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    The Word is Serendipitous Lote-Tree's Avatar
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    Point of suffering?

    perhaps None.

    Some people don't suffer at all.

    Others willingly.

    Others made to.

    Point of suffering?

    perhaps None.

    There is no need to suffer. There are other ways of learning which does not involve pain...
    I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
    Some letter of that After-life to spell:
    And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
    And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"


    Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales

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    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lote-Tree View Post
    There is no need to suffer. There are other ways of learning which does not involve pain...
    His Divine Grace A.C. Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada writes that if one lives a spiritual life then they get the merit of an austere life, even though they do not practice austerity.

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