Perhaps case study is the wrong choice of words. Test Subject I suppose is a better description. I got the feeling he was being manipulated subtly in part one. During the two minutes hate. The thought was solidified for me when O'Brien produced the photograph of the dissenters in NY during his reprogramming.Originally Posted by Gladys
Of course I am not sure if any of this is correct. It is just what I was feeling as I read it.
Gender Free...
In my opinion i feel as if Winston and Julia's relationship started out as a way to rebel.
As shown in the book Julia rebels in many small but significant ways. As said "Julia rebels from the waist down." Also Winston rebels in many ways as well. For instance writing in the Journal. I think that at the beginnig it started out that way but i think that over the time of their mettings they started having feelings for eachother. Although i feel as if Winston has more feeling for Julia then Julia has for Winston. For example when Winston had his nightmare that reminded him of when his mom and sister vannished she showed no interest and fell back asleep. But this is just my view on things.
Isn't manipulation of the Outer Party the prime purpose of the two minutes hate sessions?
Winston has more feeling than Julia because he is old enough to remember life before Oceania and its propaganda machine.
"Love does not alter the beloved, it alters itself"
I very much agree with this. Julia shows the effects of the emotional and social isolation the party is trying to inflict. She does have somewhat of an indifference or so it seems to Winston's turmoil. I believe that is very much part of having known only party doctrine for all of her life.
Gender Free...
(Not sure whether or not I should've made a new thread, so I'm replying to this one to be safe)
In regards to Julia, I never really saw her as someone who actually cared what Big Brother did. I always saw her as a quiet immature, stupid sex-addict (to put it bluntly) and the only reason she opposed Big Brother was because it took away the fun in life.
I thought this was highlighted when she falls asleep while Winston reads the book by E.Goldstein and also she never really seems to care when Winston talks about the Party (for example when he comments on the sudden change in hatred from Eurasia to Eastasia (or is it the other way round?))
Also I was never really convinced that she loved Winston, and can you even be certain that she did? A more wild theory to go along with that would be that she was one of the Thought Police all along, because as far as I can recall Winston never finds out what happens to her after he gets captured (do correct me if I'm wrong).
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Last edited by forchina; 03-11-2012 at 04:31 AM.
I just finished the book and my thoughts are that they waited seven years to arrest him because they had to wait for him to form an attachment they could force him to betray. Without Julia there would not have been another person for Winston to throw under the bus. I think this is backed up by the emaciated guy that begs not to be sent back to room 101. It sounds terrible to us that he was begging for them to take his wife and children instead, but in the 1984 society your wife and children are not the people you love.
Last edited by Hassohappa; 06-06-2012 at 06:05 PM.
Most insightful. I had overlooked the need for a Julia to break the resilient spirit of Winston. Seven years is worth the wait.
Seven years until Winston, mentally he was joining in with the cheering crowds, could offer an honest testimonial to the party as his eyes fill with tears of joy and reconciliation.
Savage!
"Love does not alter the beloved, it alters itself"
Okay, so towards the very end of the book, Winston tells us about how he goes to meet up with Julia after they have both been released from the torture of Big Brother. I understand that they both admit to betraying one another for their personal safety, and that they both agreed that there was no feeling of love or lust between them anymore. But if O'Brien went through all of this trouble to get Winston to betray Julia, why is he letting Winston go to see her? I thought that Winston would be under the surveillance of Big Brother until his death. So i guess my question is why did O'Brien let Winston get away with going to see Julia after all of the work to burn his fancy with her out of his mind?
Why? The meeting between Winston and Julia is overt testimony to the demoralization that O'Brien worked for so long. Their new-found indifference to each other broadcasts the victory of O'Brien and Big Brother for all to see.
"Love does not alter the beloved, it alters itself"
I agree with what Gladys said, that their meeting just proved that O'Brien had succeeded in separating Julia and Winston. They showed no emotion towards each other during their meeting so the party does not care to do anything about it. They are no longer worried about them being rebellious together since they have both been destroyed of emotion inside the ministry of love
In the beginning Julia followed Winston around like a puppy dog. However Winston was unsure of her intentions. He suspected her as being part of the thought police. I can't say that I would risk even talking to Julia in fear of her turning me in. Being in a relationship together was also somewhat foolish. Who knows who might have seen them together and reported them.
I don't think that Winston and Julia were foolish because they knew what they were getting themselves into. They knew from the very start because even Winston thought Julia was the thought police. they knew they had to sneak around and they knew It was a matter of time before they got caught. they were surprised at the end because I think they thought the room above the shop was a safe place.
Future relationships
In a way i wonder if their relationship will be much like future relationships were betraying eachother means nothing. I would imagine many peoplr already feel this way.
In my opinion, it was undoubtedly foolish of Winston and Julia to get involved with one another. With a government like theirs, where you're watched 24/7 and with so many secret Thought-Police, it was almost inevitable for them to get caught. Although, in the long run I believe it would have been worth it to have what they had. In a world where showing emotion and loving is prohibited, simply knowing that you once had the chance to care for and love someone, even for a short time, must be something to live for.
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