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Thread: a mystical experience of shared knowledge

  1. #1
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    a mystical experience of shared knowledge

    I recently posted this in a blog. I will try to rewrite it for here.

    I had a mystical experience which was, in my valuing, the highest attainment I've ever had. It was quite unusual, and it lasted for several hours. One thing I find is very important is knowing ourselves. And being at peace. It takes a lot, a lot of learning and some knowledge, to know oneself and be at peace.

    More than once in my spiritual and philosophical journey, I've had experiences of the breakdown of my former restrictions and constraints. This has been only in a good and spiritually refreshing way; this is not about my moral karma; it is good, but please leave this out of it.

    Blazeofglory had a thread that was posted on for a little while called division is illusion: I am you. I have always considered this to perhaps be abstractly or philosophically or metaphorically true, but of course not literally true. Now because of my experience, I am under the impression it is literally true. Phenomena and division are literally illusion.

    As I said, I wrote this in my blog, and it has already been criticized rather harshly. Something I'd like to share is that if we are alone, then it's only our own input that we have to integrate knowledge. Then we have to do it all ourselves. Since we have resources, books and books of information, we can learn from these. How well one integrates the knowledge they gain is a key factor. Many times I'll read something and understand it, and be joyful that I've understood a deep concept, and sometimes this has a profound effect on me. Of course, here I am now, and what do I know if any of it has affected me at all?

    Now as I'm rewriting this, I'm seeing that I'm not doing such a great job of it. The thing is there are several things if I didn't know, I wouldn't have had or understood this experience at all. One of them is an understanding of how I learn, and then an unadultered experience of the knowledge I've attained. Sometimes I think we don't know things so much as absolutes, but pin them down with spears of possibility. I don't know first principles, e.g., so much as I simply am guided along a continuum of a near infinite quantity of thoughts. As Zarathustra says, don't ask me the reasons for my opinions; I can barely remember my opinions, much less the why's of them. (Perhaps not an exact quote. Shoot me.)

    Another problem is that if you're alone, you have a great force to come up against. It's like how do you consider yourself beautiful if everyone hates you? I'm not saying everyone hates me. Nor am I saying...you hate me if you disagree with me. Nor am I saying...a near infinute quantity of other statements. Only what I said. It's just a part of the equation; and surely you understand?

    Some ideas are true (or not, perhaps none are). Hm, I can hardly remember where I was going with that, so on and so forth and I'll try to explain the experience...

    Like I said, it was experiencing division and phenomena as illusion. It was experiencing "everything," all at once, and wholly integrated. While this had to do with phenomena and the identity of people, also while I was in this state, I could see everything very clearly, I could see detail, I was taking in much more and I was not blocked by anything. That is, everything was coming in unfiltered. (And no, I was not on LSD when I had this experience. Sober as daylight.)

    So the highest point was that I had come to a knowledge. This knowledge was integrated into my consciousness, so that it wasn't only "known abstractly," but it was known as reality. This knowledge was partly that phenomena was illusion, but it was also partly full realization of the self. Knowledge of the self- of the true self- that primordial archetype which exists before our lives begin. This is what I was experiencing, and I know it was true, beyond all doubt. Now, as I began to experience this, everything faded away, all of my barriers to understanding, they all faded away.

    To explain this-- consider that we walk on the carpet. Walking on the carpet has meaning. This meaning has meaning; we have opened a limitless world of meaning now, and this limitless world has meaning, and it goes on forever. Imagine!

    We experience one thing as we always have; the sensation as we always have. But then that experience has meaning, and that meaning has meaning, and so on. This is the path to the experience I had-- and this was truly the most refreshing, truest, thing I've ever known.

    -Like I said, I was experiencing my true self, and this is a knowledge that is very, very deeply hidden- it exists before we were born. As I experienced this, I also took in all the other information and understood it, and my experience of the world shifted. Everything that was phenomena faded away- and time and division faded away as well.

    Now, the kicker. This was not a solo experience, it was a shared mystical experience. Because the truth is that I am you, and you are me. We are both part of the same world, and if we see things from every perspective, or as the ancient Buddhists say, to see in all ten directions at once, then we no longer perceive self and other.

    The shared experience: people were coming to my store window, customers, that is. I saw myself in them. I was experiencing and being myself, my true self. They were too. The whole world was falling away around me, and the division of myself fell away too. This only happened because we both shared the same knowledge-- that inexplicable total integration and understanding of "everything."

    I am positing that these people are self-realized. They know that we are in a dream. They have perceived through the dream. They are their true selves, their god forms. And in this, they can only whisper "no pain"... but I share this with them now. I am with them, for you see, there exists reality. What we experience is not reality, but only a dream, a shade pulled over our eyes. When we perceive it, it ceases to exist.

    Someone criticized me for being self-deluded, in thinking I was god, in all sorts of other things like this. (Not to mention condensenscion on their part as they said what I was saying was ignorant and self-deluded.) However, I know as fact, that attachment to the phenomena is the illusion, is the insanity. This is just one part of it-- and it's a part that's almost universally accepted in the religions; I believe it's in Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, all of them that I know. This is because it's the knowledge that the mystics always got, and it was universally true. "This life is illusion." Are the words that come out of it; and you may say I say these because they sound good, but if you think this, you are mistaken.

    So this mystical experience I had wasn't the ultimate reality. It was just one experience, one which I have not failed to replicate. Today I was out walking and I tested it out and I saw it was true still. I believe God is with me. This mysticism opens up a completely different world, a world of reality, a world of love, and peace. As I was walking, I again saw how people would become their perfect archetypes, and I also felt positive energy throughout my whole body, and I contemplated about how I do not really expend energy or get tired. The energy comes from elsewhere. From my mind, or my spirit, as well as the food I eat. I am only a vessel for God.

    There are many parts to this understanding. One is knowledge. One is openness. One is kindness. One is peace. One is love. One is sharing. One is understanding. One is intelligence. One is me. One is you. One is God.

    This is one more thing I wrote, in my blog entry, which you may visit if you like.

    One part to the experience is understanding what we know: it is not stagnant, but the opposite of this, it is virile reality of unlimited possibility. One part of it is experiencing this unlimited possibility. One part of it is experiencing peace, one part is experiencing good health, and love infused with spirit. We can only experience all these things if we accept love and knowledge, and love ourselves without doubt. One part is experiencing time and phenomena as illusion, when we achieve eternity, and when the world falls away; eternity, perhaps, only metaphorically, and phenomena, perhaps, only metaphorically transcended. The final part is when division is transcended, perhaps the most clinging devil of all, the greatest illusion. But if this veil is perceived as literally illusion, then all falls into place. This experience is shared by many people. Many people believe in this underlying reality, which exists beyond our senses, which are blinded by phenomena.

    "Everything we experience; impacts us through our senses; and everything that we sense is infused with meaning. Well, the meaning builds on itself. Is any of it real? We see things, and it appears to be entirely consistent; reality is always there, after we stop believing in it. But how do we know? Well this question gives rise to the interesting place we can go to, where reality is entirely different. When we experience everything like this, when we experience such a reality, the knowledge is immediately in our minds, and this is seen by others; either ignored by someone who doesn't know, or seen and recognized by someone who does. Such a shared mystical experience only requires both people to go to that place-- where the "everything" is realized, where knowledge is integrated, where, perhaps, the self is realized. What, truly, is the obstacle to this? I saw, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when the illusion is perceived to literally be illusion, the possibilities become endless. Then phenomena is illusion, and all of our false concepts fade away."

    Okay, that ends my post here. See you on the other side.
    Last edited by NikolaiI; 02-14-2008 at 11:24 PM.

  2. #2
    The Ghost of Laszlo Jamf islandclimber's Avatar
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    very good post.. I love it..

    so not to turn what you wrote into a footnote... but I see what you're saying as coming from a somewhat Buddhist type philosophy with ideas of Nirvana and Anatta...

    the only thing I ask is are you saying that each of us is creator of this world, and when we realize that all is a created illusion by the false temporal nature of our minds, we will cease to be finite and defined and become one, become infinite, timeless...

    I believe that yes the possibility is there, but it will take death (which is why I think death has its own beauty) to fully become our original essence or nature you could say, or non-essence, non-nature... for while in human form, even when you do slip into transcendence as much as possible (I've had a few similar experiences in meditation and at other times) you are always brought back into this temporary reality...

    that is why I believe everything and nothing are one and the same... for after death everything is nothing recognizable by human thought and definition, we can feel it maybe, glimpse it, but not define it or hold it... the idea of nothing is the closest we can come to the concept of timeless and infinite, for even those words define things which necessarily can have no definition... being outside of time, where all is now, and all is not now, how do we grasp that.. I don't believe we can.. just have faith, accept...

    so I believe all is one, and my faith says that one is love, most likely not in the form we have here, but still infinite love... and that is what siddhartha really taught and in my opinion what christ really taught before religion destroyed much of both...

    so, on that note, great post Nikolai... we should all have faith in infinite love, and in so doing enjoy life...

  3. #3
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    thx, island climber!!!!

    the things that truly shock me and surprise me are when i recognize a name or an avatar, or an experience of talking with someone for the first time, as being some kind of perfect manifestation of their form. or, when i recognize i name i'd not seen before, or an avatar.

    yes, that is surely true, that you're always brought back.

    the point in my experience which is most difficult to explain, about identity being illusion...yes you could be right about that...

    "the only thing I ask is are you saying that each of us is creator of this world, and when we realize that all is a created illusion by the false temporal nature of our minds, we will cease to be finite and defined and become one, become infinite, timeless..."

    i think that's half of it maybe. i mean, we are timeless in that our ideas are shared with others and live on, grow, develop, influence, and that our lives intermingle and become one.

    "each of us is creator of this world, and when we realize that all is a created illusion by the false temporal nature of our minds, we will cease to be finite and defined and become one, become infinite, timeless..."

    each of us is the creator, yes, and the way we become one is interesting. it's sort of the "how do i know you are not a figment of my imagination?" bit, and a sort of the idea that my perfect form is the same as everyone else's. i mean, time and division don't exist if others can see through our eyes, and we can see through theirs. then if i see someone of a different age, with all different qualities, different hair, colour of clothes, different face, it is still a manifestation of the same thing, just of life. if i'm at the place where i see everything, and they are too, then it becomes a shared experience where everything falls away.

    when this happens, walls are not the same as walls anymore, life is not the same as life. it's something new. life has meaning. that meaning has meaning. thus opens the door to the infinte love you speak of.

    i'll read your post a few more times. i think you're a great writer. some of the ideas i'm speaking of, come from a book called "The Joyous Cosmology" by Alan Watts. it's where i got the ideas about archetypes, although, i guess also, he got them from Jung. It's about, "the Chemistry of Consciousness," and I haven't actually read all of it. (Sadly; and now I feel like I have my foot in my mouth for talking aout it.)

    So, thank you very much, kind island climber, for your feedback and positive response. Yours insights are very exciting to learn of.
    Last edited by NikolaiI; 02-15-2008 at 04:32 PM.

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    The Ghost of Laszlo Jamf islandclimber's Avatar
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    I never noticed you had responded here... sorry about that... this post kind of died and I found it quite interesting, as I mentioned before... I remember you saying you were somewhat harshly criticized for this when you put it in your blog... I now know what you mean... it seems when you post anything slightly different, not traditional and orthodox, flying in the face of scientific and atheistic thinking, you get ripped apart for it... I'm finding that out in the religious thread on why god is so hard to believe in... it is quite interesting though how diehard some people are about how science is always correct... I almost believe philosophy and religion should be combined in these forums... as they sweep over each other in so many ways... but just in looking at what you've written here, and what I believe which is quite similar..

    for when you do break the bonds that hold us in this materialistic, egocentric, scientific illusion I do believe everything is nothing and nothing is everything.. it all has a meaning that was never truly there before: love...

    when I have more time I would be interested in getting this thread going again by discussing further your ideas.. if you're interested as well...

    cheers

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    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    yes, very much so, island climber..

    i've developed so much since this. i've had two more experiences that went much further...one was a revelation and a vision (the revelation lasting for several minutes, and being made up of many such revelations...in such a revelation the ego is left far behind, and is replaced with many revelations-- for lack of a better word, and i apologize for using it so much, but basically just a completely joyous instant, when everything was seen in a completely new, and more true light, or better understood, however you wish to explain it, all explained very simply... since then, my dreams have been so rich. i get up from sleep so lightly and so happy, because i know i've seen it all make sense. during this revelation i just wanted to share it with friends... self-realization is the process of life, and of course it is very different for all individuals, my revelation was mainly related to my own self-realization)--

    so that was the revelation, i will try to go more into it... at that time i had such a feeling of the source. i had such a clear knowledge of the source, as i kept calling it to me and it was like it was such an intimate part of me. my vision had several different parts-- and i've written this in a new blog, you cna check it out if you wish, it's my most recent blog entry, if you don't know how to check them, ask-- the first part was a very deep penetrating look into reality, the reality of myself, of my mind: i'd already seen what my mind was, and this was a further continuation of that. life and reality's possibilities stretch so far. the truth of reality is constantly withheld from us, because of our dualities. once these are transcended...i don't know how to explain, except by telling what i saw...it was like it was a matrix. of course the secret to unification, to peace, to love, is a very simple one, and it was pretty much the basis of what i saw... and of course god's secret is one so simple, all it takes is understanding it. god's rules are simple, love, be at peace, be judicial, be perfect. as we get closer to god, it gets easier and easier. the only way it could be difficult is if we spend very much time focusing on the negative. this is the big secret of it all. everything is important, it all has value. in fact we don't know our own worth. we don't love god as much as god loves us, and god loves us more than we can know. there is a good reason he does. we are made for there to be the possibility of receptance of his grace... and we can come to know this grace... and of course, as we do know, it is different for everyone.

    one of the most amazing things is that after i had this vision, when i began reading the book "teachings of the hindu mystics" edited by andrew harvey, I found all of these ideas written down in verse and in moral advice. i found such...such...true, beautiful things in this book... awe-inspiring... the faith and love and beauty... and all of my ideas were reflected... if we follow our heart, islandclimber... we will get to a very beautiful thing.

    my vision showed me infinite light. it showed me that my body-- the physical manifestation of it, in truth, was made up of infinite buddhas. the buddhas that make up our body-- it's hard to explain, but by following our natural light, we simply dispel karma at every turn. it was the realization that by a pure lifestyle, we simply become purified. later i realized the all-importance of god...i will get to that. my second experience i had, as i told you i had two, was going to temple last night for the first time. temple for me was the rupanuga vedic college. it was a spiritual place. i go to church, a presbyterian one, and i see god there, but not like this. but then, god is everywhere. back to my first vision; our bodies are made up of buddhas, of infinite light, which dispels karma and can become pure. our hands are the hands of buddhas, in fact we are loved so much and praised so much by buddhas, if only we knew, we would have no fear at any step. the second thing i saw was the folds of my blanket as a lotus flower. i can't explain why this was so beautiful, one must see it for themselves. it was simply the most beautiful thing i could imagine. the flower itself was made up of infinite worlds, it was made up of the light of buddhas... later i've read that everything is consciousness. you might be interested in the very short story i read called "The story of the rock," i'm sure it's available online.

    the third thing i saw was the form of krishna appear, by looking at his image on a page. it became real, illuminated off the page. i simply...cannot describe how beautiful this was.

    well...so that's what i have to say for now...like i said i went to temple last night and islandclimber, it changed my life so much... there are several things which were not new to me but perhaps were not so real to me. many different ideas and spiritual feelings i had been perhaps aware of, but had not seen them really. for instance, simply so many ideas that you can't put into words but which give hope, or which are based of love, and wisdom... oh, it was so beautiful.

    yes, god is real...and it is actually i believe a negative thing to say he isn't. for now i'm dropping out of discussion with atheists... the other thing besides love which i saw was... well, i forget... oh yes... you know how we always think, in our moments of rapture, moments of peace, that there is more? that there simply is more? i really saw this and i really...i can't describe...it was so beautiful.

    looking forward to your thoughts.
    cheers

    remember, we cannot be separated from the source!

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    wow- what a great thread! NikolaiI, your experiences and revelations sound incredible... ive had a few experiences of my own where ive felt a deep calm, and a deep peace, with other people, a feeling of love for other people, a feeling of seeing the purity and goodness in the random strangers that walk by... unfortunetly, it is always fleeting, and soon afterwards, i find myself wrapped up in my hectic little life, until i force myself to step back and reevaluate what and how i am thinking... anyway...im new to the boards, and am here, mainly to learn more and get some recommendations for reading philosophy... i guess part of me wants those moments to occur more often and not be so fleeting... mainly what i have read, and what has me interested in learning more, and sounds a lot like what you are discussing, are the thoughts and ideas of ken wilber... do you have any recommendations for further readings?
    i look forward to your responses!
    jessica

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    Devotion PierreGringoire's Avatar
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    What vegetables or uh...herbs do you reccommend? I'm only kidding. That sounds like a pretty cool state to be in. Does it go away or are you always able to tap into it?

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    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessicav516 View Post
    wow- what a great thread! NikolaiI, your experiences and revelations sound incredible... ive had a few experiences of my own where ive felt a deep calm, and a deep peace, with other people, a feeling of love for other people, a feeling of seeing the purity and goodness in the random strangers that walk by... unfortunetly, it is always fleeting, and soon afterwards, i find myself wrapped up in my hectic little life, until i force myself to step back and reevaluate what and how i am thinking... anyway...im new to the boards, and am here, mainly to learn more and get some recommendations for reading philosophy... i guess part of me wants those moments to occur more often and not be so fleeting... mainly what i have read, and what has me interested in learning more, and sounds a lot like what you are discussing, are the thoughts and ideas of ken wilber... do you have any recommendations for further readings?
    i look forward to your responses!
    jessica
    The first one that comes to mind is Emerson, have you read anything by him?

    Currently I'm wholly immersed and devoted to the Hindu teachings. Bhagavad-Gita, the Vedas, the Upanishads, as well as different teachings and songs by different saint-poets. The writer who gave me the most of what I'm getting now by these sources would be Emerson.

    Quote Originally Posted by PierreGringoire
    What vegetables or uh...herbs do you reccommend? I'm only kidding. That sounds like a pretty cool state to be in. Does it go away or are you always able to tap into it?
    It only goes away if I close my eyes. But seriously, there are 5-10 different meditation disciplines I practice, and perhaps I do it in a non-disciplined way, but that's alright. Sitting meditation, standing meditation, walking meditation, Tai Chi, Tai Chi breathing exercises, yoga breathing exercises, trance, transcendental meditation, transcendental consciousness, chanting the name of Hare Krishna, which leads to Krishna consciousness. There are perspectives that I can come back to, just by remembering; just as a certain song, smell, sight, anything, as you know, can trigger deep impressions of memory. Deep breathing is supposed to unearth and release stores of negativity so that we can experience smells and what not more deeply.

    When one says they have moments of peace, but they are fleeting, and the person would wish they lasted longer, the first thing I think of is an image of this person. What our eyes may be closed to is the wondrous nature of ourselves, that is; the energy that manifests itself in our, even if brief, higher states of consciousness. So we must never lose sight of this; even if we only look into it briefly, it is still a wondrous, most lovely, joyful energy that flashes into the void. I am reminded of the method many Buddhists write of: shining our own light to master the emptiness.

    You ask if it goes away, and the truth is that it does... but really it doesn't. I am not blissful all the time, but then, that isn't really the goal. There is no goal. However, I believe it's our more natural state to be in a constant state of growth, I think everything teaches us something and we only fail to learn if our senses are dulled or if we are only surviving. I'm not trying to reach God, but rather to act with the peace of someone who knows God.

    The state is merely one of awareness. It's an idea I've recently read and become aware of that we can be fulfilled deeper not by any sense gratification but by a removal of ego and then perfection in our lives. We can be fulfilled deepest by a simple life, and we can reach the highest consciousness in self-perfection, as you say, self-realization. As you say it's an individual thing; guidance in fact is an an individual thing. Simple enjoyment.

    The thing is, I strongly believe in God, as the source. I've been exploring this idea, and I've come to the conclusion that we are only separated from the source by our own misperceptions and misunderstanding. How can we be separated from the source? How can Man, seeking peace, love, and knowledge, be separated from God, who loves Man infinitely? God is close to us because of his power, not because we are able to fly up to him. And in service of God all of man's desires are fulfilled, in the highest degree, and in the most perfect, sacred way. Er, as I meant to say, there are certain ways I'm able to actively continue my growth towards this; and it is satisfying and fulfilling to be able to absorb this wisdom, it is so fulfilling that I do not want to do anything else, but practice these practices and try to remember what I was before I started thinking I was a man.

    I hope that was what you wanted, Pierre. And Jessica, some of that was in response to your post as well. Look forward to your replies!

    Peace,
    Alex

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    The Ghost of Laszlo Jamf islandclimber's Avatar
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    Again, great post, and quite interesting and fascinating...

    I have had several experiences like the ones you speak of, maybe not the exact same, but similar.. and actually the lotus flower you mentioned.. I was quite shocked, for when I was really reading alot of buddhist and hindu philosophy, and meditating on it, I saw Lotus flowers, If I can remember three times, and once was in the folds of a blanket (another was in an abstract painting, and the last was in the leaves of a tree, which was extraordinary)... and the flower was so beautiful, I agree, it kept showing more and more possibilities, until finally I began to realize that in each and every thing there are all possibilities, and all possibilities are actually one, it just takes realizing this, which comes from separating oneself from the ego, and the so selfish and egotistical way of thinking that only what oneself does has value or importance.... it is the collective whole, which is actually just one on some infinite level (or infinitesimal if you prefer)...

    but this is why I find your experiences so interesting, for I have similar ones myself, and I have realized much like you that god is real, though I am not sure if our ideas are the exact same here... for my idea of god, isn't really god at all, but at the same time it is god, it is everything wrapped in to one universal value, thing, definition, whatever you want to call it... it is the essence of being and non being, existence and non existence... it is love...
    but at the same time, not a human defined love, but a universally defined love that is the essence of everything and nothing... and this is why though I love what was originally taught by Christ and by Siddhartha, I have passed away from all religious teachings... even in the way I meditate now... I don't follow any method any longer.. I meditate in my own way, my own form, for as Siddhartha said, he was just a guide to point in the right direction, enlightenment was about self-experience, and finding your own path... and Christ did say the kingdom of god is within you.. for it really is, it is within everything... we are god, god is us, for love is all there is...

    I get told that science explains the universe, but it can't explain why it's here, how it began, that is an impossible notion to human definition and words.. timeless... just the idea of it destroys all human definitions and conceptions, for we are in time, which we created, and everything we create and define is within time, but we need to realize that time isn't real, all of existence is a single moment or non moment, one instant or non instant, where everything happens, everything is, all forms, all creations, united, and whole, infinite, boundless, outside time and space... just love...

    and that is how I realized that once this is realized life is to be enjoyed, not at the expense of others, but with others, through others, with oneself and through oneself, with everyone.. for as you say everything has value and importance... and that is why there is no reason to deny life, there is only reason to love it, to love death to... and just accept whatever state we are in at the time.. life is love, and love is life... and life and death are all the same...

    and this is why I have passed away from following hindu, buddhist, taoist, christian, etc, paths, and mediations and ideas... I find self experience and experiment if one is really open brings one to another place, not better, just different (but in reality the same)... I don't feel buddhas anymore, or Krishna, what I feel is everything, what I see is everything, what I touch, smell, hear, speak to.. is everything... and what I live is everything... we all live every life, we all live everything... it just takes realization again.. your revelations.. I think you used the correct word...

    with faith and love there are no rules, there are no definitions, no forms, nothing to observe, nothing to follow, not once you realize... until death we can't become this timeless and boundless everything and nothing, but we can glimpse it, we can feel it, we can have faith in it.. and that is where we know, that there are so many paths to it, so many ways, but on one level they are all the same... we are all one, we are love... and that is timeless, that is infinite... that is where everything is nothing, and nothing is everything, and being is non being... it is all faith and love... but without name, without definition..

    thank you again for sharing, I think what you are doing is wonderful.

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    island climber...
    absolutly beautiful, i could not have expressed what i feel in my heart and soul any more eloquently or perfectly... i'm not quite so good at ecpressing myself and views, but there is one passage that i love, from ken wilber's book "sex, ecology, and spirtuality", that ill share...
    "and i-i rise to taste the dawn, and find that love alone will shine today. and the shining says: to love it all, and love it madly, and always endlessly, and ever firecely, to love without choice and thus enter the all, to love it midlessly and thus be the all, embracing the only and radiant divine: now as emptiness, now as form, together and forever, the godless search undone, and love alone will shine today."
    thank you island climber and alex for sharing for experiences...i feel like this thread is helping me get back on track to the place where i want to be... :-)

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    The Ghost of Laszlo Jamf islandclimber's Avatar
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    thank you Jessica... that Ken Wilber quote is quite beautiful... I have never read anything by him, but he sounds interesting, form what you quoted...

    I used to read alot of the same stuff Alex mentioned above, and it is wonderful to read, and so full of beauty, passion, and different ways of progressing along the path to, nirvana or whatever you personally want to call it... just always make sure to realize you aren't meant to take every little thing from each book and follow it to a tee.. take what works for you and develop your own form of meditation, your own ideas on Nirvana.. they will still be the same as all, but you still must follow your own path to this realization... I take things from everything I read... whether it be Literature, Philosophy, Poetry, etc... everything I hear, I see, I feel, I find something new and beautiful in... and that is what the realizations posted above by Alex and myself allow us to do.... we can know that life is to be enjoyed, to be lived and loved, just as everything else... not to be rejected or clung too, but loved and lived... For though Nietszche had some problems, he did say some beautiful things, such as... "Amor Fati" --- Love your fate...

    and that is the key to the universe... and to all other love...

    cheers (and I'm glad this thread helped... Alex has quite the beautiful view on life )

  12. #12
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Jessica, I recommend a book called "Entering the Stream," it is on Buddhist philosophy and spirituality, and thinking of it now, I must say it set me off in the direction toward knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    I have had several experiences like the ones you speak of, maybe not the exact same, but similar.. and actually the lotus flower you mentioned.. I was quite shocked, for when I was really reading alot of buddhist and hindu philosophy, and meditating on it, I saw Lotus flowers, If I can remember three times, and once was in the folds of a blanket (another was in an abstract painting, and the last was in the leaves of a tree, which was extraordinary)... and the flower was so beautiful, I agree, it kept showing more and more possibilities, until finally I began to realize that in each and every thing there are all possibilities, and all possibilities are actually one, it just takes realizing this, which comes from separating oneself from the ego, and the so selfish and egotistical way of thinking that only what oneself does has value or importance.... it is the collective whole, which is actually just one on some infinite level (or infinitesimal if you prefer)...
    this so wonderful to read!!! truly that is basically exactly what I saw!!! how is this possible? I too saw the lotus flower in the folds of my blanket...ah, yes, it is exactly as you said!! I don't know what I can really add to this, nor could I express it better...I wonder what your vision of it in the leaf was like. One more thing is that it was sort of the most beautiful thing I could imagine at the time, and yet I knew it was true. My consciousness is finite and limited, I know this, and I have to take in one piece of information at at a time. Yet I was gifted with stability for spiritual progress, and a good mind to integrate knowledge and be able to be in peaceful consciousness. When I saw this, during this revelation time, I was also very aware of being able to control my consciousness, it's hard to say, but how else would we get to these higher levels?
    there are several ideas which shine true in my thinking. you say that everything is one possibility, I think I can subscribe to this. as you said before it's beyond our understanding, and we can only dip into it from time to time in our lives. so all is one possibility. it is beyond our understanding, really, as you say. related to this are the ideas that reality is non-dual (advaita vedanta) and the idea of god as source. i believe with all my heart that god exists; a long time ago i was convinced and understood how faith and reason are not in contrast with each other. i'm still exploring this, but now i'm more interested in the limits of spirituality.
    you say I have a beautiful view of life, island climber, i thank you...life is a beautiful gift. sometimes i see or realize that life and death are not separate. we're alive, but we're finite, and so this means we do not have eternal life. yet if we live spiritually then we attain eternal life. it seems like life is something which is either material or spiritual. if we live in materialism, then the end of the road is darkness, and we are bound for it for sure, yet if we spiritualize our lives and live transcendent of nature, then our future is very bright.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    but this is why I find your experiences so interesting, for I have similar ones myself, and I have realized much like you that god is real, though I am not sure if our ideas are the exact same here... for my idea of god, isn't really god at all, but at the same time it is god, it is everything wrapped in to one universal value, thing, definition, whatever you want to call it... it is the essence of being and non being, existence and non existence... it is love...
    ah...you do believe in god. i read your post but had forgotten and didn't know while posting the above. (infalliable human memory )
    my idea of god is both that of the source, and also a personal god krishna. yes, it is precisely love. it is the source of goodness and being, beyond duality, it is infinite, it is the source into which all is dissolved. it is love, as you say, and the universal value or spiritual law. the interesting thing i believe, is that we can't be separated from the source, no realistically or practically. "Wake up from the dream of separateness." All of this-- we're only separate from god because of our ignorance.
    island climber, what's really interesting to me are the limits, the possibilities...life with love and spirituality...there's so much that i find is so important to me but i can't even share in words. everything has value...i never felt these things before. like you say these realizations allow us to embrace and love life, to live spiritually, not attached in our material engagements, transcendental to them, and aware of our position as servitors of the whole...although in me, this doesn't manifest as a desire for new experience, in my personal life, currently, i explore these things in retreat...into my own peace and spiritual progress. peace and love are the most important things.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    but at the same time, not a human defined love, but a universally defined love that is the essence of everything and nothing... and this is why though I love what was originally taught by Christ and by Siddhartha, I have passed away from all religious teachings... even in the way I meditate now... I don't follow any method any longer.. I meditate in my own way, my own form, for as Siddhartha said, he was just a guide to point in the right direction, enlightenment was about self-experience, and finding your own path... and Christ did say the kingdom of god is within you.. for it really is, it is within everything... we are god, god is us, for love is all there is...
    definitely not. (it is not a human defined love.)
    it is good that you have come to this. i cannot express how much i think you are on the right path, nor how highly i think of your ideas...it says in the gita that yoga is the path to the supreme. yet yoga is breath, or in every breath there is prana, so with every breath we inhale some prana, whether we are aware of it or not. it also says in the gita that all paths lead to god.
    as i said i can't express how highly i think of your ideas. you are clearly very intelligent, and deeply spiritual, and i'm impressed with your attainment. i say this, not to flatter the ego, but for another reason... that is, that while this life can become a spiritual one, if we initiate and with close attention practice, and live according to...love, or spirituality; while this will allow us to see another world, and life will become beatific, society and the state of its individuals are not necessarily all doing well. i think ideas and words have power; both negative and positive ones. i think it is important to be careful, then, of what we say. gopi krishna said war was inevitable, but i would never say this, or even think it, because it seems to me completely baseless and in fact very negative. but there is the possibility of negativity, which would create more negativity....this is a danger... the danger of ignorance, misery, suffering... anyway for this reason i desire to propagate knowledge of spirituality, of god... or at least...well i dunno... i am interested in the spiritual world for the reason that love... i can't live without it...anyway, what am i trying to say. blazeofglory is a very spiritual person, whose ideas influenced me in a good way about god, the source, division, many ideas... one time i was thinking of god, and i was realizing that we can know what he wants, surrender to his will, or...for... the peace and love, disarming of arms... but what i'm trying to say is we can know his truth deeply, or we can reach higher states of consciousness, a state of which i was in when i saw this, and i saw what prophecy was, what mysticism was... the inexpressible love and revelation in god's light, the only thing is, how to make this glorious, yet somehow, somehow somehow hidden truth, available for all, for the peace and salvation of humanity? because in our mystic experience, we perceive the truth so deeply, yet we know that the source is with us at all times, that we cannot be divided from the source, and that god's law is ultimately very simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    I get told that science explains the universe, but it can't explain why it's here, how it began, that is an impossible notion to human definition and words.. timeless... just the idea of it destroys all human definitions and conceptions, for we are in time, which we created, and everything we create and define is within time, but we need to realize that time isn't real, all of existence is a single moment or non moment, one instant or non instant, where everything happens, everything is, all forms, all creations, united, and whole, infinite, boundless, outside time and space... just love...
    this is the third paragraph you've ended with "it is just love..."
    my last little paragraph...my post will end up a little unbalanced, i'm afraid...
    yes, i agree with all this. island climber, you truly understand this all very well. science as gopi krishna writes has almost got us in unbalance; the material side of things is taken to the extreme limits of knowledge while spirituality is discounted. the pendulum always swings. the science of god is pure and true, and gives boundless joy and love and knowledge. knowledge of material nature is always limited to material nature, knowledge of the soul leads to the science of god.
    time is an illusion too. this is as you say. all material phenomena is an illusion. buddha nature is the reality. krishna consciousness is the reality. the kingdom of god is the reality. all is consciousness. all of us have the self within us. reality is non-dual, and in spirituality exists everlasting life. who is more to be trusted, the scientist who eats animals or the mystic who weeps in ecstasy when god shows him his form?

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    and that is how I realized that once this is realized life is to be enjoyed, not at the expense of others, but with others, through others, with oneself and through oneself, with everyone.. for as you say everything has value and importance... and that is why there is no reason to deny life, there is only reason to love it, to love death to... and just accept whatever state we are in at the time.. life is love, and love is life... and life and death are all the same...
    yes...i am also truly amazed by your analytical process of this. you have come to the philosophical conclusion of your idea of how it is all one possibility, one instant, one reality, or one dream...i cannot put it in better words than you, and then you come to the logical conclusion of it; the inexpressible (yet that which finds expression in your words) joy and exaltation of it all; that mystical feeling which says life is love, love is life, and life and death are the same. for if life is love...then we are love. and if we are love, then we are peace as well. there's a poem i was reading, in the andrew harvey book, about how no one dies, and no one is degraded forever...actually wasn't a poem but a short piece of prose...anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    and this is why I have passed away from following hindu, buddhist, taoist, christian, etc, paths, and mediations and ideas... I find self experience and experiment if one is really open brings one to another place, not better, just different (but in reality the same)... I don't feel buddhas anymore, or Krishna, what I feel is everything, what I see is everything, what I touch, smell, hear, speak to.. is everything... and what I live is everything... we all live every life, we all live everything... it just takes realization again.. your revelations.. I think you used the correct word...
    yes, i have had genuine revelations. as for mystical experience, everything is part of everything. a dear friend of mine says that consciousness is the link; the proof that it is non-dual. we think we're separate, but the link is through our senses, and our consciousness. but who thinks we're separate anymore? heh. anyway you must have a very interesting life. i still haven't moved away from those religions, currently i'm immersed in the Krishna consciousness movement (not actually hinduism) and...looking forward to the future. life is love, as you say, we are love too. what is love but happiness? we are love, as you say, it is very beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber
    with faith and love there are no rules, there are no definitions, no forms, nothing to observe, nothing to follow, not once you realize... until death we can't become this timeless and boundless everything and nothing, but we can glimpse it, we can feel it, we can have faith in it.. and that is where we know, that there are so many paths to it, so many ways, but on one level they are all the same... we are all one, we are love... and that is timeless, that is infinite... that is where everything is nothing, and nothing is everything, and being is non being... it is all faith and love... but without name, without definition..
    anyone who reads your words will surely be enlightened. if we analyze, we will come to this conclusion, i believe; at least i have...and there are no limits. you said it wonderfully. one thing though, you say, until death we can't become, but you acknowledged before that life and death are the same. so logically we are this timeless infinite in all moments. i can't really add more to this, who knows what it all means? you've gotten to the height of what can be. yet there is no reason not to go further. there is no limit, as you say.

    anyway...hopefully some of this was readable...your post was really inspiring. i know it's all true. i do have the same god as you, even if i call him sri krishna instead of infinite love. i hope our discourse will inspire faith.

    take care.

  13. #13
    Devotion PierreGringoire's Avatar
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    "Everything is nothing and nothing is Everything"-- You do not claim to know what that means--do you? How can People use infinite as a means of enlightenment or understanding? Or if you trying to influence or inspire other people I believe you will loose 95% of them in the meaning of this. And the people that do claim to comprehend the meaning behind this will only be ignorantly sincere that they can grasp its meaning. I also think that people cannot understand "timeless"-- the concept I get from the implied message behind "Everything is Nothing and nothing is Everything." The notion of hoping for a "time" of limitless and timeless love is incomprehensible.
    What can one do to be the most better off in the here and now, I think is a bit more enticing and practical an endeavor to be trying to figure out. Socrates said that Justice (and "goodness") is good for the person in this lifetime. I think we are limited to that "target." --however shallow it may seem to optomists. Or am I wrong?

  14. #14
    Jai Keshava NikolaiI's Avatar
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    The reason island climber and I believe in the impossible, is because of the extraordinary experiences we have both had. I'll write more, explain more later. One of the main things involved here is transcendentalism, which is not useless, nor does it have any material qualities, not in its true form. That is, it is perfect. As I said, I'll explain more later.

  15. #15
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    A mystical experience. Indeed this is something we all can have only if we realize the truth of creation. The truth is that we are not different creations, but one integral whole. Just feel that everyone is linked by the common earth and we share the common air to breathe.

    All are so much tied up and connected.

    Distance, difference in terms of geography, culture, nationalism are superficial and at the center we are not these different fragments and figments.

    I often become very argumentative, skeptical and critical of everything, often get swayed by the idea of atheism.

    But I am not totally satisfied with the idea of a finite world, and materialism that claims that everything ends up at death.

    No I do not subscribe to the idea of materiality, and indeed the world is mysterious, and by this I do not mean that life does not end up here with death and death is simply a short respite and after that we will proceed.

    I say life is a mystery for I have yet to discover for myself the meaning of it.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

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