Does anyone else have a problem with this play?

[Dark Muse]

I went to see a Preformance of the Taming of the Shrew, knowing little of the details of what it was about, for I had not read this one yet, but I knew that my sister hates the play, though I did not know the full reason, so I went to see it, with the full intent of having an open mind about it, and in spite of my efforts not to think this way, I just hated it. I thought it was the most auful thing ever. And I honestly I really did try not to hate it, and to try and find some vaule in it, but it was just god awful to me. Watching that play made me angery at Shakespeare.

And I really am surprised by how many people acutally seem to like this play. It is a story about a man who decides to train his wife as if she were a dog, and tortures her, in order to physcialy and mentally break her down so that she will become an obedient slave to him.

Then at the end we are all suppose to apploud when Katherina gives her speach about how women are weak and should be subserviant to men.

[Jamesian]

Hello, Dark Muse.
Your objections are understandable, but - as always with the Bard - there are more things to consider. The play has been rather heavily discussed on this site (especially about a year ago, when I believe it was one of the Shakespeare Discussion Group works), and you might find why the play appeals to some people by looking at some of the threads in its subforum (http://www.online-literature.com/for...ay.php?f=1269).
Personally, I was just kind of unimpressed with it until I discovered Bloom's book (Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human), which was where I first encountered the idea that Kate's speech at the end is perhaps a little...I don't know, subversive, perhaps? Anyway, hope that helps.

[Dark Muse]

Well going into the play I really tried to keep that mind set, but well in this case I just could not, though it might help to acutally read the play, as I have only seen it preformed and in addition to not carring for the content of the play itself I was further distrubed by the reactions of the audience and thier seeming to applaud the idea of torture.

[Jamesian]

Ew, well, that does sound rather creepy on the part of the audience. I've actually never been able to look at the play the same way since Bloom's book, but I'll take a look at the introduction to the play in The Riverside Shakespeare - which I think usually includes some brief discussion of the sources Shakespeare drew from - and see what it makes of it.

[Shakespearelove]

When you saw the performance of The Taming of the Shrew, they probably didn't perform the Induction, in which Christopher Sly, a drunkard, is tricked into thinking that he is a wealthy nobleman. The problem with omitting the Induction is that doing so distorts the interpretation of the play, in that Sly is a parallel character to Petruchio, who believes himself to be the lord and master of Katherina, his wife. In the same way that Sly is living in a dream world, so is Petruchio and thus, by extension, all men who believe that women should be subservient to their husbands. If you examine the female characters in Shakespeare's plays, you will see that the women are every bit a smart as the men (and oftentimes even smarter), so to believe that Shakespeare was sending the message that women should submit to their husbands is to misinterpret his play.

[Tournesol]

In discussing Katerina's treatment by her husband, her speech at the end of the play etc, we cannot forget Bianca, her sister.

While Kat is 'tamed', we are amused by the fact that the 'timid' Bianca [as everyone in the play sees her to be] is actually not as nice as we think.

Dark Muse, I don't know how much of Bianca was included in the play you saw. But in Shakespeare's play, at the end, when Bianca's husband calls for her, she ignores him, and she goes about doing what she wants, unlike the shrew Katerina.

All in all, Pet.'s treatment of Kat is meant to be humourous, I guess the portrayal of it on stage made it seem more cruel that it was actually meant to be...
Another thing to think of is...if it were the other way around: the woman treating the man as such, would we as humans still be as sensitive about it?

[Dark Muse]

Well personaly I think I can say that if the roles were reversed my reaction would be the same, having just come from a discussion of a D.H. Lawrence story in which I came down very hard upon a woman character becasue I thought her treatment to her husband was cruel

[Tournesol]

I agree with you.

But I still encourage you to read the play. It's very enjoyable, funny, lots of sexual connotations.

The dramatic irony throughout the play is that, while everyone on stage sees Kat as being the one who needs taming, the audience knows that Bianca is the real Shrew.
I've never seen the play performed, but I have studied it while I was at university.
I hope you enjoy reading it, Dark Muse!

[Virgil]

It is sexist DM, but in a charming sort of way. We did have a discussion of this play once. If you do a search you might find an interesting discussion.

[Dark Muse]

It is hard to imagine it being charming, but one of these days I will read it for myself, perhpas such things just do not come acorss upon stage as well.

[Redzeppelin]

I would suggest that you read the play (if you've not aleady) so that your decisions are based more on Shakespeare's language rather than a director's interpretation of that language.

The use of the word "torture" is hyperbolic; just like the average sitcom that has characters crash cars and walk into the house with their hair smoking, I doubt that Kate's "starvation" and "sleep deprivation" are in any way meant to suggest that she is in any real suffering. If people critiqued cartoons and sit coms like they criticised this play, well they'd all be seen as horrific in terms of the violence they offer.

People tend to get agitated about Petruccio's "taming" of Kate without exploring in any meaningful way the reality that Kate's behavior is over-the-top, out-of-control and fully unacceptable. You cannot paint her as some sort of proto-feminist because she does not rebel for any clear cause per se (she does not act out in defense of her femininity and she does not focus her anger only on men), but she simply acts out to vent her rage. Many people (especially women) run to Kate's defense, but would you actually like to spend time with her as a friend as the play depicts her prior to her "surrender"? Doubtful.

What the unspoken issue really is, is that our "politically correct" culture shudders at the idea that a woman can be out of control and that a man might serve as the "tool" by which she learns a better way navigating life. We're quite happy to watch our comedies and sitcoms that portray men as bumbling "cavemen" in need of the "polish" a good woman provides, but turn the tables and look what we get?

I suggest that if the roles would have been reversed, few people would have any issue with the play - and any men that would protest would be quickly shouted down; after all, as the former "oppressors," we deserve whatever we get, right?

Perhaps you might consider seeing the play as I present it to my students: as a testimony of a man's love in his willingness to liberate a woman whom he sees as his equal from a temperament that - unaddressed - would leave her angry and alone for the rest of her life. In the Renaissance, that is a death sentence for a woman.

[kelby_lake]

It is hard to imagine it being charming, but one of these days I will read it for myself, perhpas such things just do not come acorss upon stage as well.

It depends how the director interprets it. If the director entirely agrees with Petruchio, the play can come across as promoting the humiliation of women who aren't subservient and as trivialising violence (it may just be slapping but there is a lot of beating in the play). I think Shakespeare should have developed the Induction more and weaved it throughout the play, thus making the audience more critical of what is happening on stage.

Katherina and Petruchio are both wrong; Petruchio is marrying Katherina primarily for money. He decides to marry her before he has even seen her. But I do think that Katherina is too cynical about men.

Petruchio does seem to begin to feel sorry for her.

I'm surprised that The Taming of The Shrew isn't classed as a problem play; although it might have been treated as pure farce back then, there's certainly now some questions about the cruelty. Although there is quite a lot of cruelty even in the comedies.

[Beewulf]

I'm surprised that The Taming of The Shrew isn't classed as a problem play; although it might have been treated as pure farce back then, there's certainly now some questions about the cruelty. Although there is quite a lot of cruelty even in the comedies.

To me the problem with Shrew is not the treatment of Kate (Redzeppelin persuasively explains in a previous post why Petruchio's treatment of Kate is justifiable) but why Shakespeare devotes an entire act to establishing the Christopher Sly plot line only to ignore Sly once the Petruchio/Kate story takes off. Since Shakespeare is noted for his ability to manage multiple plot lines, I've never understood why he leaves this one dangling.

Is this simply an example of a bad playwrighting or have I missed something?

Thanks for your help!

[kelby_lake]

To me the problem with Shrew is not the treatment of Kate (Redzeppelin persuasively explains in a previous post why Petruchio's treatment of Kate is justifiable) but why Shakespeare devotes an entire act to establishing the Christopher Sly plot line only to ignore Sly once the Petruchio/Kate story takes off. Since Shakespeare is noted for his ability to manage multiple plot lines, I've never understood why he leaves this one dangling.

Is this simply an example of a bad playwrighting or have I missed something?

Thanks for your help!

The Sly bit isn't actually an act; it's an induction, basically a framing device for the play. Because it's so long, as an audience you get attached to Sly or you are at least amused enough to want to see Sly's reaction; however as it is the induction, the characters all disappear.

Shrew's pretty early so it looks like Shakespeare was playing around with the idea of a play-within-a-play. He establishes it better in later plays.

There's a play called 'Top Girls' which starts with a scene of historical women chatting to each other in a restaurant. The actual story is about women in the 80's and the characters are multi-roled (so the historical women become their 80's counterpart). It's really the only way to pull off the Induction (Sly and Petruchio have been played by the same man).

[Dark Muse]

Seeing the renewed interest in this thread, and reading over the various different comments made by others I will, as soon as I have an opening in my reading actually read the play for myself and try to do so with an open mind to see if indeed in the reading of the play I can revaluate my opinion of it and get a different interpretation than was offered in the performance which I saw.