Thought Police

**The Atheist** · 12-02-2008, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Princess Belle

How long do you think the thought police have been tracking or following Winston? Was it seven years because he had the dream of O'Brian, hearing O'Brian telling him they would meet in the place of no darkness seven years ago? Or was it from the point when Winston bought the journal and pen at the antique shop? Just wondering...

We were discussing this the other day.

The first thing is that Outer Party members are watched all the time. On top of that, the Thought Police had clearly been interested in Winston for many years - quite how many we don't know, but at least the seven is my pick.

**lukgem** · 12-02-2008, 07:06 AM

Hey Bazarov,
you cannot use the modern usage of the word oligarch as the modern usage was not relevant when Orwell constructed goldstein's book. Could it be argued, F scott fitzgerald and the great gatsby, Within this book Gatsby has many gay times. I would argue he was not homosexual and this usage of the word was meant in the older meaning, abounding in social pleasures. It would be wrong for me to read and interpret this in the modern usage of the word according to the dictionary. therefore surely the same must apply to Goldsteins book and the word Oligarch?

**Enjoi.** · 12-04-2008, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

That's a modern usage. I don't even think such a use existed in 1948 and Orwell was using this one.

I agree with the definition provided by The Atheist. It fully supports how Orwell was writing at the time and what he was writing about. Big Brother (the Party) is ruled by an elite few. The Inner Party. Though you become that elite few through evaluation not inheritance. Nothing to do with wealth or social class. (well the Proles wouldn't be able to become Inner, but thats a given)

**bazarov** · 12-04-2008, 09:06 AM

I admitted already that my modern usage made fuzz here, I am sorry; again

Mea culpa.

**Enjoi.** · 12-04-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by bazarov

I admitted already that my modern usage made fuzz here, I am sorry; again

Mea culpa.

It was nothing against you bazarov, your opinion is viewed highly on here. No need to apologize.

**bazarov** · 12-05-2008, 04:04 AM

I know, but still...

**Gladys** · 05-20-2009, 01:33 AM

Seven years before Winston's arrest, O'Brien's Thought Police place Winston under surveillance. They know about the prostitute, and the 'thick, quarto-sized blank book with a red back and a marbled cover' bought from the empty 'junk-shop', run by their agent, Mr Charrington. A month or two later Winston rents the first-story room of the shop, and invites Julia to the room, where they interact in full view of the concealed telescreen.

They then continue to use the room until O'Brien finds the thing each fears the most, and gains their fervent trust.

Is this summary accurate?

**bazarov** · 06-21-2009, 04:11 AM

Yes, that's correct.

**Raisian** · 06-22-2009, 10:45 PM

I don't recall reading that there were any active chimneys coming out of the ministry building, so:

Did anyone else wonder if the papers dropped into memory holes (oh, the sweet irony

actually landed into the hands of thinkpol, rather than being incinerated? Perhaps the warm gusts of air were actually an elaborate facade?

**The Atheist** · 06-23-2009, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Raisian

I don't recall reading that there were any active chimneys coming out of the ministry building, so:

Did anyone else wonder if the papers dropped into memory holes (oh, the sweet irony

actually landed into the hands of thinkpol, rather than being incinerated? Perhaps the warm gusts of air were actually an elaborate facade?

Yes indeed; I can't imagine things being burnt without scrutiny.

**flannel** · 11-17-2009, 07:39 PM

I think that the thought police began watching him 7 years before 1984.I think that the journal just added to the knowledge that the thought police had about winston

**O'Brian** · 01-28-2010, 10:50 PM

I don't think the Thought Police were really "tracking" Winston. They don't need to... All thought crime is eventually caught. A major theme of the book is that there is no escape. Big Brother is Watching you and there is NO way to hide from him.

**kev67** · 09-12-2012, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Princess Belle

How long do you think the thought police have been tracking or following Winston? Was it seven years because he had the dream of O'Brian, hearing O'Brian telling him they would meet in the place of no darkness seven years ago? Or was it from the point when Winston bought the journal and pen at the antique shop? Just wondering...

It was probably when Winston started hiding from the telescreen in his flat.