Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 47

Thread: Thought Police

  1. #31
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    The George Orwell sub-forum
    Posts
    4,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Belle View Post
    How long do you think the thought police have been tracking or following Winston? Was it seven years because he had the dream of O'Brian, hearing O'Brian telling him they would meet in the place of no darkness seven years ago? Or was it from the point when Winston bought the journal and pen at the antique shop? Just wondering...
    We were discussing this the other day.

    The first thing is that Outer Party members are watched all the time. On top of that, the Thought Police had clearly been interested in Winston for many years - quite how many we don't know, but at least the seven is my pick.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  2. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    london
    Posts
    79
    Hey Bazarov,
    you cannot use the modern usage of the word oligarch as the modern usage was not relevant when Orwell constructed goldstein's book. Could it be argued, F scott fitzgerald and the great gatsby, Within this book Gatsby has many gay times. I would argue he was not homosexual and this usage of the word was meant in the older meaning, abounding in social pleasures. It would be wrong for me to read and interpret this in the modern usage of the word according to the dictionary. therefore surely the same must apply to Goldsteins book and the word Oligarch?

  3. #33
    Machiavellian. Enjoi.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    In the blind spots of your vision.
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
    That's a modern usage. I don't even think such a use existed in 1948 and Orwell was using this one.
    I agree with the definition provided by The Atheist. It fully supports how Orwell was writing at the time and what he was writing about. Big Brother (the Party) is ruled by an elite few. The Inner Party. Though you become that elite few through evaluation not inheritance. Nothing to do with wealth or social class. (well the Proles wouldn't be able to become Inner, but thats a given)
    The wish to acquire more is admittedly a very natural and common thing; and when men succeed in this they are always praised rather than condemned. But when they lack the ability to do so and yet want to acquire more at all costs, they deserve condemnation for their mistakes.

    -Machiavelli

  4. #34
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In spleen
    Posts
    2,219
    I admitted already that my modern usage made fuzz here, I am sorry; again Mea culpa.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  5. #35
    Machiavellian. Enjoi.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    In the blind spots of your vision.
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov View Post
    I admitted already that my modern usage made fuzz here, I am sorry; again Mea culpa.
    It was nothing against you bazarov, your opinion is viewed highly on here. No need to apologize.
    The wish to acquire more is admittedly a very natural and common thing; and when men succeed in this they are always praised rather than condemned. But when they lack the ability to do so and yet want to acquire more at all costs, they deserve condemnation for their mistakes.

    -Machiavelli

  6. #36
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In spleen
    Posts
    2,219
    I know, but still...
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  7. #37
    the beloved: Gladys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,603

    Patient Surveillance

    Seven years before Winston's arrest, O'Brien's Thought Police place Winston under surveillance. They know about the prostitute, and the 'thick, quarto-sized blank book with a red back and a marbled cover' bought from the empty 'junk-shop', run by their agent, Mr Charrington. A month or two later Winston rents the first-story room of the shop, and invites Julia to the room, where they interact in full view of the concealed telescreen.

    They then continue to use the room until O'Brien finds the thing each fears the most, and gains their fervent trust.

    Is this summary accurate?
    Last edited by Gladys; 05-28-2009 at 05:11 AM. Reason: Previous misunderstanding corrected

  8. #38
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In spleen
    Posts
    2,219
    Yes, that's correct.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  9. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1

    Memory holes?

    I don't recall reading that there were any active chimneys coming out of the ministry building, so:

    Did anyone else wonder if the papers dropped into memory holes (oh, the sweet irony actually landed into the hands of thinkpol, rather than being incinerated? Perhaps the warm gusts of air were actually an elaborate facade?

  10. #40
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    The George Orwell sub-forum
    Posts
    4,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisian View Post
    I don't recall reading that there were any active chimneys coming out of the ministry building, so:

    Did anyone else wonder if the papers dropped into memory holes (oh, the sweet irony actually landed into the hands of thinkpol, rather than being incinerated? Perhaps the warm gusts of air were actually an elaborate facade?
    Yes indeed; I can't imagine things being burnt without scrutiny.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  11. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4
    I think that the thought police began watching him 7 years before 1984.I think that the journal just added to the knowledge that the thought police had about winston

  12. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5
    I don't think the Thought Police were really "tracking" Winston. They don't need to... All thought crime is eventually caught. A major theme of the book is that there is no escape. Big Brother is Watching you and there is NO way to hide from him.

  13. #43
    Registered User kev67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Reading, England
    Posts
    2,178
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Belle View Post
    How long do you think the thought police have been tracking or following Winston? Was it seven years because he had the dream of O'Brian, hearing O'Brian telling him they would meet in the place of no darkness seven years ago? Or was it from the point when Winston bought the journal and pen at the antique shop? Just wondering...
    It was probably when Winston started hiding from the telescreen in his flat.
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

  14. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3
    It seems to me that the thought police merely observe everyones actions all the time for signs of potential rebellion. But, to aid them in their search, they have little traps like the antique shop running all the time to help catch anyone that they may have missed in observation.

  15. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf13 View Post
    It seems to me that the thought police merely observe everyones actions all the time for signs of potential rebellion. But, to aid them in their search, they have little traps like the antique shop running all the time to help catch anyone that they may have missed in observation.
    The thought police is all over the world, in any country, communist, tyrannical, etc. In USA it is to protect freedom of speech and democracy, which is precisely why there are some idiots preaching as much nonsense as they wish. And why would they care so much about their privacy of thought when they don't care at all in what they say over the internet? This is not going to change. It will become simply more openly exposed and justified as it should for the advantage of the moral man.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. An Instinct.
    By King of Frogs in forum Short Story Sharing
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-06-2007, 05:08 AM
  2. Thought I'll Give This Writing Stuff A Shot...
    By Neo_Sephiroth in forum General Writing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-30-2006, 03:38 PM
  3. i thought i was dead
    By spally in forum Personal Poetry
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-15-2006, 07:43 AM
  4. animal farm and what I thought about it
    By Unregistered in forum Animal Farm
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-24-2005, 06:07 PM
  5. help with english paper
    By sowle2themax in forum General Writing
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-26-2005, 07:55 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •