What is “Christianity?”

[ShoutGrace]

What is “Christianity?” How do you define Christianity? How do you think it would best be defined?

I think that this is rather complicated because the word “define” can be used different ways. Some might think of Christianity as an oppressive dogma, others might view it as “truth.” I think that these are more manifestations or interpretations of what I'm trying to get at. That kind of definition is fine, but moreover, I want to know what you think Christianity is, perhaps ideally, what makes one a ‘Christian,’ etc.

I bring this up because it is commonly cited that Hitler either A.) Was a Christian, or B.) “Believed in Christianity.” At the moment I will plainly say that I think these two statements contradict his actions, and the beliefs of the Nazi party as a whole. Robinhood3000 mentioned that the Christianity Hitler “believed in” wasn’t very “benevolent.” It is commonly believed that the Christian God is "omnibenevolent." Do you think that ‘Christianity’ (on paper) is necessarily benevolent?

Kind of convoluted, but I just woke up. Any thoughts?

[Shadowsarin]

Erm, I'm no expert on this by a long shot, but I guess Christianity is a religion that merges parts of Jewdaism(sp?) with the teachings of Jesus. That would be my definition, and it could easily be wrong.

As for Hitler, off the top of my head he was raised as a Roman Catholic but he rejected it for a Darwinist line of thought. I think in the end he believed in something of a mix between the two. Something about there being several races that were there to battle it out and the Aryan race being the race chosen by some kind of higher power to be the best. Thats off the top of my head though.

Hmm, Christianity on paper is very hard to analise because there are so many different schools of thought in it. I can't remember most of them and the ones I do know I don't know alltogether much about. I guess I disagree with Traditionalist Catholocism(sp?) on sexuality grounds and any other schools that are similer. Apart from that, I just don't know enough.

Hmm, I'm interested to see what some people will say here. Methinks I have a good chance to learn quite a bit from this threat.

[Whifflingpin]

"Kind of convoluted"

I'll unravel a bit and confuse a bit more. I expect I’ll upset a few, so if you are a Christian, a Jew, a Moslem, a scientist, a fascist or a democrat, I advise you not to read this post. Please note, however, that I am not implying approval or otherwise of those views or people I’m describing, nor am I intending to insult anyone. That’s far too pretentious a preamble – but I know what a touchy lot of readers there are out there.

*** *** ***

The teachings of Jesus are important to most Christians, but, to be a Christian, it is necessary to believe that Jesus is more than a teacher, and more even than a prophet. The defining element of Christianity is a belief in Jesus as the Christ - the reconciler of God to mankind - the redeemer of mankind.

It is probably not possible to be a good Christian without following the teachings of Jesus, but, by that token, there are so few good Christians that they do not figure much in most people's perception of Christianity. Jesus advised a quiet simplicity in worship, but the majority of Christians use elaborate ritual. Jesus advised against the amassing of wealth, but most Christians pursue such wealth as they can, and give away just such tokens as the Pharisees whom Jesus condemned. Jesus embraced martyrdom, but most Christians would return two blows for every one received. This is not to say that Christians are worse than non-Christians, only that they are, on the whole, very poor followers of Christ. If you want to be a good Christian then a) believe in Jesus as the saviour of mankind, b) follow his teaching, without making excuses.


*** *** *** *** ***

As to whether Hitler was a Christian - nominally he was. More to the point, his power base was Catholic Bavaria - his followers were very largely ordinary Christians. (So, of course, were many of his opponents, even within Germany.) His closest political allies were the leaders of Italy and Spain, both predominantly Roman Catholic countries.

Shoutgrace casually refers to "beliefs of the Nazi party as a whole." The beliefs of the National Socialist party were no less complicated than the beliefs of Christianity. There was a large socialist element in National Socialism - a belief that the state should be for the benefit of all classes of people, especially the less well off. Politically and economically, Germany had collapsed in the years following the Great War, and the National Socialist government restored the country to economic soundness and political stability.

Many political leaders, from earliest times up to and including the present, have united their people, and consolidated their own leadership, by finding a scapegoat, internally, or an enemy externally.
As a war leader, Hitler was merely following in the footsteps of Ramses, Alexander, Timur, Napoleon, Chaka etc. As a persecutor of political opponents, Hitler had many predecessors, and successors, no less oppressive.


Only as racists, perhaps, did the Nazis exceed other regimes of modern times. They combined the doctrine of racial purity, as found in Ezra, with a scientific doctrine of Darwin and the Catholic church's doctrine that the whole Jewish race was guilty of deicide. Nothing in that was unique to them, only the combination and the thoroughness with which they sought to implement their beliefs.

How Christian were they? Obviously, their doctrine owed nothing to the Christ of the Gospels, but equally obviously they were carrying out policies that Christians had followed for centuries. Jews had frequently been persecuted by Christians for as long as Christians had the power to do so. Ghettos, proscriptions, pogroms - all were intermittent features of Christian societies. Where active persecution was not present, there was often a tacit prejudice against Jews.

So, it could be argued that the Nazis were no different in belief from the majority of their Christian predecessors. The extremity of their behaviour, however, brought about a revulsion and a change, such that we now find it difficult to see or admit that they were only taking to a logical extreme the common attitudes of Christendom.


*** *** *** ***

Is Christianity necessarily benevolent? I suppose Jesus is, his followers not. I’ve argued in other threads recently that, within the Old Testament, there is a portrayal of God as a tribal war leader, not in the least benevolent. This portrait is easily seized on by members of those religions that have their basis in the Old Testament. Jihad, Crusade, Holy War are, historically, features of the behaviour of the followers of the God of Abraham, the Lord of Hosts. Conversion by the sword has been a normal practice of those religions.

It seems obvious from a reading of the Gospels that the teaching and example of Jesus is utterly opposed to oppression or violent political action. It is equally obvious from a reading of history that oppression and violent political action have been embraced by Jesus’ followers as readily as by any other section of humanity.


.

[Mseif]

you picked a large topic here and a very controversial one at that but I think I may have some to say.

First of all let's look at people. The fact that Jesus' teachings would be taken and used for worshipped exactly as it was taught would be a miracle in itself because of man's natural thought and urges and passions for various things such as greed or power and after they gain it to keep it. Like the Catholic inquisition it rooted out the church's enemies so that it can remain aloof. All this power mongering would initiate new rites that regular men would create to enhance their presence as men of God and that none should for fear of death, torture and excommunication. I beleive excommunication is a perfect example of past church corruptness, I mean to give man the power to deny another paradise is not something i see a true follower of christ would do.

Current Christianity was more created out of people who craved power than the actual teachings of Christ, but this doesnt mean the are totally out of whack. Some things they follow are good, yet others are just there for the benefit of the church.

OK i should stop here because i know i make hardly any sense as i am scattered in my mind (wee crazy if you ask me) so if you ask a specific questions on christianity i should be able to help you

[Pendragon]

Simple as I can with one verse: Philippians 1:27 "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mid striving together for the faith of the gospel." Live what you preach.

[Redzeppelin]

The teachings of Jesus are important to most Christians, but, to be a Christian, it is necessary to believe that Jesus is more than a teacher, and more even than a prophet. The defining element of Christianity is a belief in Jesus as the Christ - the reconciler of God to mankind - the redeemer of mankind.

Well said, my friend.

Is Christianity necessarily benevolent? I suppose Jesus is, his followers not. I’ve argued in other threads recently that, within the Old Testament, there is a portrayal of God as a tribal war leader, not in the least benevolent...It seems obvious from a reading of the Gospels that the teaching and example of Jesus is utterly opposed to oppression or violent political action. It is equally obvious from a reading of history that oppression and violent political action have been embraced by Jesus’ followers as readily as by any other section of humanity.

Also well said - but not as condemnatory as many who espouse such a view might be lead to believe. One error, I believe, is the idea that Christianity exists in a vacuume; it does not. Belief in God necessitates a belief in Satan - a being engaged in relentless attack on the creation of God as his way of "attacking" God (because direct assault - as portrayed in Paradise Lost - is not an option). That Christians are capable of perverting the message of the Gospels confirms the nature of this battle. I think one would be hard pressed to find any world-wide religious movement of consequence that does not have a percentage of believers who distort the original message.

As far as the Old Testament God - well, I think sometimes our difficulty with God is based on the idea that His dictionary is the same one we use (i.e. we define "bad" a certain way - but does He define it similarly?). I'm not sure His published dictionary would necessarily jive with ours.

[Orionsbelt]

The simple answer to this question seems to me to be that Christ is a metaphor for what you as an individual can become. A Christian would be one who adopts this metaphor as a life guide. Anything else seems to me to be an un-necessary complication.

[alhara]

correct me if i'm wrong but i think definitions should be simple. wouldn't christianity be a belif in the techings of christ. I would think this would have something to do with the bible. but so long as you think it was said by christ and you believe in it i would think at least that belif could be called a christain one

[Redzeppelin]

correct me if i'm wrong but i think definitions should be simple. wouldn't christianity be a belif in the techings of christ.

Technically, you're correct. But "belief" in something is different than living it. There are plenty of people out there who "believe" in Christ's teachings but don't follow them in their own lives at all - and that sort of incongruity would, in my opinion, invalidate the person as representing Christianity.

[Virgil]

Technically, you're correct. But "belief" in something is different than living it. There are plenty of people out there who "believe" in Christ's teachings but don't follow them in their own lives at all - and that sort of incongruity would, in my opinion, invalidate the person as representing Christianity.

Well, that seems a little strict. I don't believe any person can completely live as Christ dictates. I know I can't. I can't even come close. But I do consider myself a Christian.

[mtpspur]

I claim to be a Christian but I assure you my life often contradicts the 'perceptions' people have of what a Christian is. I admit to any that care (and there is really no reason why you should) that I am a GREAT sinner in the eyes of God (and to those that know certain secrets) and yet the Lord Christ (for reasons known only to Him) HAS pity on me and saved me IN my sins and has been spending roughly the past 30 years making me over to conform to His image. None of which is a credit to my accomplishiments but are by His grace. This to me is a simple picture of what Christianity is--a memorial of God's grace to UNDESERVING sinners.

[Redzeppelin]

Well, that seems a little strict. I don't believe any person can completely live as Christ dictates. I know I can't. I can't even come close. But I do consider myself a Christian.

Fair enough. I suppose I can redeem myself by pointing to the adverb phrase "at all" to modify my verb "follow." I meant to say that there is little at all in their lives that would suggest that they are Christians beyond their profession (usually verbal - which reminds me of St. Francis: "Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words") of that identity. If I took my definition as you have, then yep, I'm in bad, bad shape too. I was thinking of "Christianity" in the most Pharisaic sense.

[Pendragon]

Fair enough. I suppose I can redeem myself by pointing to the adverb phrase "at all" to modify my verb "follow." I meant to say that there is little at all in their lives that would suggest that they are Christians beyond their profession (usually verbal - which reminds me of St. Francis: "Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words") of that identity. If I took my definition as you have, then yep, I'm in bad, bad shape too. I was thinking of "Christianity" in the most Pharisaic sense.

And please remember the Pharisee and the Publican (Tax-collector) praying at the temple in Christ's parable. All the Publican would say was "God be merciful to me, a sinner." Yet Jesus said he went down to his house justified rather than the other who bragged about how good he was. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive them." Jude 1:24-25 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling and to present [you] faultless befor the pressence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Savior, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

Let Him do the work in us!

[Redzeppelin]

Let Him do the work in us!

Amen.

I suppose I should clarify that I'm a big fan of the book of James in the New Testament and that I think (to spout an oft pulpit-conveyed thought) that "Christian" should ve a verb, not an adjective. My focus on behavior is a direct criticism to people who claim the title "Christian" but do the opposite (sense the reference to the Pharisees, the religious "models" of Christ's day).

[Wintermute]

To me Christianity, like all other religions, is a human construct which is used to dampen our [natural] fear of death. However, being agnostic, I could be wrong.