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Thread: Mythology

  1. #1
    Right in the happy button IWilKikU's Avatar
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    Mythology

    Does anyone think it's odd that all of the followers of the great mythologies (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, ect...) gave up their beliefs in these stories that they've been raised to believe in, but we still cling so tightly to Hebrew Mythology? These stories that we have from the Bible, -The Flood, Creation, The Tower of Babel, The Gospel- they basically are all just mythological stories that we have no evidence for except for the Bible itself. If someone found some ancient texts telling the story of Zues, we wouldn't cannonize it and reistate the ancient Greek religions. Why then do we put so much stock in the Bible and its' stories?
    ...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.

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    Right in the happy button IWilKikU's Avatar
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    Oh, and just so no one gets all jumpy, I'm not trying to start a fight here. I believe in a good 90% of the Bible, I'm just trying to figure out why.
    ...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.

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    freaky geeky emily655321's Avatar
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    I've often wondered the same thing, Kik. I don't think I know enough about it, though, to offer an opinion of why this might be.
    If you had to live with this you'd rather lie than fall.
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    Hi—I’m new here, pleased to meet you guys. Interesting question. Perhaps one reason for the survival of Christianity is its “benevolent” god—he’s portrayed as a compassionate deity, guiding and watching over his followers. In contrast, the Greek gods were often indifferent or even meddlesome in the lives of humans. I suppose it’s simply more enticing to believe in a god whom we think will help us out.

    P.S. Does my text show up in color? If so, I’m sorry and I’ll try to fix it.

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    Right in the happy button IWilKikU's Avatar
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    Well the Hebrew mythological God wasn't actually all that benevolent. Through the NT we learn to see a more compassionate God, but old school God had the earth swallow people, had whole nations first born's die, made his "chosen people" wander in the wilderness for 40 years and all die out before any of the original wanderers made it to the "promised land". He also meddled quite a bit in the lives of humans I'd say: Destroying EVERYONE in a great flood, confusing everyone's langueges at Babel so they would spread out, raining fire on a city because they were perverted and immoral, having a guy swollowed by a great fish and spit out where he wanted him to work, impregnating a 14 year old girl with the savior of the human race, sounds a bit meddlesome to me.

    If you compare them, he really doesn't seem that different from any other mythological God.

    I hope that someone who is religious, and has more faith than me will answer this. I'm really not trying to pick a fight.
    ...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.

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    Right, but I think today the emphasis is Christianity is on Jesus—a loving, forgiving, self-sacrificing god.

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    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
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    Re: Mythology

    Originally posted by IWilKikU
    Does anyone think it's odd that all of the followers of the great mythologies (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, ect...) gave up their beliefs in these stories that they've been raised to believe in, but we still cling so tightly to Hebrew Mythology? These stories that we have from the Bible, -The Flood, Creation, The Tower of Babel, The Gospel- they basically are all just mythological stories that we have no evidence for except for the Bible itself. If someone found some ancient texts telling the story of Zues, we wouldn't cannonize it and reistate the ancient Greek religions. Why then do we put so much stock in the Bible and its' stories?
    It's a reasonable question, and Wilde has already made some good points. The greek gods were hardly gods at all, if by "gods" we understand superior beings in all manners. They had the same emotions and miseries of humans, they just happened to have powers, or more accurately, to be the expression of such powers, and that expression couldn't be made by anything else than a human portrait. Those kind of gods were needed at that moment in order to express what humanity felt like regarding existance. The ones who ceased to be needed disappeared.
    The god of the old testament bears some resemblance to them, but the one in the new testament clearly opposes this view of god. The conclusion you suggest is not entirely misplaced, although I don't think that this is the case. Most of the world doesn't worship the christian god, they worship somehing else or they don't worship anything at all. Thing is, America is the bastion of this belief, so that's why you might feel that there is much "stock" in the bible, but considering a global view, I don't think this is accurate.
    Ningún hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

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    Right in the happy button IWilKikU's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Wilde
    Right, but I think today the emphasis is Christianity is on Jesus—a loving, forgiving, self-sacrificing god.
    Yes, but I'm talking about the stories from the OT that have mythical proportions. I'm not talking about the emphasis of Christianity. Its just that these old Pentateuch stories sound like fairy tales to me. I'm trying to figure out what sets these stories apart from the likes of Jason and the Golden Fleace or Theseus and the Minotaur. They have the same elements of magic (although utilized by God rather than man), Gods, epic events... whats the difference and why hasn't society (ok, American society) as a whole rejected the OT on the same grounds that they've rejected Greek Mythology?

    Crisaor, rather than looking at this issue on a geographical societal view, what about in the Christian church? There arn't still temples to the ancient Greek gods, so why is there still a HUGE church that worships the biblical God? What sets the Mythology that he originated in (literarily, not necesarilly literally) apart from the Mythos that contains the ancient Greek gods? Why was this one able to survive?
    ...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.

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    freaky geeky emily655321's Avatar
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    I think Crisaor has a point in the significance of Christianity in the matter. In fact, I think that's just it: had the Old Testament not been adopted as part of the Christian tradition, many of the tales probably would now be an obscure footnote to the history of Judaism. But along with the teachings of Christ, Christians continue to believe the old stories, simply because they are also in the Bible. I don't think it has as much to do with them having particular validity to people, as much as the fact that they are included in the Bible and have therefore survived as part of Christian tradition. Many Christians, and really all fundamentalists, seem to believe that rejecting any words written in the Bible is blasphemy.
    If you had to live with this you'd rather lie than fall.
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    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by IWilKikU
    Crisaor, rather than looking at this issue on a geographical societal view, what about in the Christian church? There arn't still temples to the ancient Greek gods, so why is there still a HUGE church that worships the biblical God? What sets the Mythology that he originated in (literarily, not necesarilly literally) apart from the Mythos that contains the ancient Greek gods? Why was this one able to survive?
    First of all, though I believe that there aren't any temples dedicated to greek gods still around, some of them are still worshipped. You need only type their name on an engine search and you'll come across it. Now, regarding your question, I don't think I can provide you with a suitable answer in this few minutes I'm posting, nevertheless, I'll give it a shot.
    One possible answer could be that the biblical god originally presented itself (if such term can be used) as the exact opposite of the pagan, politheist gods. We're talking about the one and true god, the creator, the all-knowing, not some human invention. He wasn't created by the human mind, but the other way round. In this view, he's clearly different (and thus, superior), to the others.
    Another explanation could be that monetheism defines a single god as the source of all things, and this replaces some problematic issues related to a multi-god pantheon (since this kind of gods can only have a determinate portfolio, a limited area of influence, how can any of that beings be perceived as perfect?)
    Yet another explanation is the one that the biblical god survived because he was tied with the fate of israel people. He was their god, their only god, their creator, protector, and benefactor. Their entire history is based on the cooperation between them and their god. Their survival is the survival of their god. There is no separation.
    Last, but not least, it could simply be that this is THE God we're talking about. Maybe he really exists (and has all the attributes we associate to him), and that's why he's still around.
    Note that any of this explanations, flawed or not, could be applied to any of the monotheist gods (Yahve, Allah, or the christian God). In fact, it's not uncommon to refer to these gods as a different aspect of the same being, thus adding more credit to his existance.
    I hope that makes some sense.
    Originally posted by emily655321
    I think Crisaor has a point in the significance of Christianity in the matter. In fact, I think that's just it: had the Old Testament not been adopted as part of the Christian tradition, many of the tales probably would now be an obscure footnote to the history of Judaism.
    I'm not so sure of that, actually. Judaism is a pretty closed religion compared to the others. Their tradition is much stronger than that of christians or catholics. It's passed from father to son no matter what. It's a legacy. They consider it a part of their being, as opposed to the other groups, who just consider it a choice in life.
    Ningún hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

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    freaky geeky emily655321's Avatar
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    1) I agree, 2) however Yes, stories like the Exodus and the Covenant and others fundamental to the religion are passed down and studied by Rabbis and kids in school. But as far as stories like Noah, and Jonah, and even Adam and Eve to a lesser extent, not much attention is paid to them in Judaism. There are also books of the OT -- I forget which offhand -- which Jewish leaders decided to keep out of the Torah for the reason that they didn't believe they held relevence to the religion; Lilith, for example, is one that stayed out for good. But early Christians were just laymen who had enjoyed these stories passed down orally, and decided to include them in their own Bible. So many of the legends in the Bible either aren't considered very credible by Jewish scholars, or they were not originally included in holy texts at all.
    If you had to live with this you'd rather lie than fall.
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    ~The Dresden Dolls

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    I am still thinking about this question which I think is really interesting. I think that the point that Iwillkiku is making is being missed. Things like the flood and creation are included in other texts, but they have been disregarded while Christians continue to accept them in the bible. I have been reading some of the creation myths, mostly Eastern ones and they are too fantastical to be true. Their gods as Crisaor says are like super - men. The way that Creation is recorded in the bible is different. It describes creation and the way the heaven's and the earth are formed and doesnt refer to God himself as a personality, just as an entity that is doing the creating. He himself is not described - only his creation and the order in which he founded it.

    I think the stories apart from the bible that describe the flood and there are I understand, many that record the same kind of thing happening and there is actually evidence of a flood in that area of Mesopotamia, confirm that it really did happen and like many newspaper reports or even photographs can give a slightly different picture, that this is what is happening here. Everything then was passed down by word of mouth and it would be easy for parts of the story to be changed while still illustrating the basic truth that there was a flood.

    I think I would be described as Christian fundamentalist but my mind is not closed and I consider things in conjunction with the world as it is today, whilst still keeping faith in what I believe. Some Christians say that the world is only 3000 years old which I think is ridiculous because there is evidence to the contrary. A lot of christians also believe that the world was made in seven days. I believe that the world was made in seven days..but they were God's days and they could have been thousands of centuries long. I really enjoy questions like this posed here. I am thinking some more about this and don't have much time just now to write more

    Miranda

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    freaky geeky emily655321's Avatar
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    That's true about the flood, Miranda. I've listened to scientists on TV giving theories about where a great flood may have taken place. I was referring more to the "two of each creature"/ark/top of the mountain part of the story. (Although I've also heard a theory proposing that the ark was a merchant ship specially designed for transporting livestock, already in use before the flood occurred.)
    If you had to live with this you'd rather lie than fall.
    You think I can't fly? Well, you just watch me!

    ~The Dresden Dolls

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    L'artiste est morte crisaor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by emily655321
    1) I agree, 2) however as far as stories like Noah, and Jonah, and even Adam and Eve to a lesser extent, not much attention is paid to them in Judaism. There are also books of the OT which Jewish leaders decided to keep out of the Torah for the reason that they didn't believe they held relevence to the religion. But early Christians were just laymen who had enjoyed these stories passed down orally, and decided to include them in their own Bible. So many of the legends in the Bible either aren't considered very credible by Jewish scholars, or they were not originally included in holy texts at all.
    Agreed.
    Ningún hombre llega a ser lo que es por lo que escribe, sino por lo que lee.
    - Jorge Luis Borges

  15. #15
    Right in the happy button IWilKikU's Avatar
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    Emily is on the track closest to my train of thought. I'm talking more about these larger-than-life, fairytale sounding stories that the Bible has and that we worship. However all of you helped me figure out some sort of idea of an answer to my question. Thanks.
    ...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.

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