D.H.Lawrence ~ The Tortoise Poems

[Janine]

Then you will be better prepared when the discussion begins. I think since the poem is a long one, I will post segments of it like we do in the short stories, what do you think?

I think I have to unplug now - thunderstorms once again, darn it!

[Janine]

This is the first section to discuss the Tortoise poem:

LUI ET ELLE

by: D.H. Lawrence (1885-1930)

SHE is large and matronly
And rather dirty,
A little sardonic-looking, as if domesticity had driven her to it.

Though what she does, except lay four eggs at random in the garden once a year
And put up with her husband,
I don't know.

She likes to eat.
She hurries up, striding reared on long uncanny legs,
When food is going.
Oh yes, she can make haste when she likes.

She snaps the soft bread from my hand in great mouthfuls,
Opening her rather pretty wedge of an iron, pristine face
Into an enormously wide-beaked mouth
Like sudden curved scissors,
And gulping at more than she can swallow, and working her thick, soft tongue,
And having the bread hanging over her chin.

[Dark Muse]

Then you will be better prepared when the discussion begins. I think since the poem is a long one, I will post segments of it like we do in the short stories, what do you think?

I think I have to unplug now - thunderstorms once again, darn it!

I think that sounds like a good idea

[Dark Muse]

First of all, I have to say that over all I found the poem to be quite funny in a lot of ways.

SHE is large and matronly
And rather dirty,
A little sardonic-looking, as if domesticity had driven her to it.

Though what she does, except lay four eggs at random in the garden once a year
And put up with her husband,
I don't know.

These lines here make me think of like a middle-aged housewife who is just stuck in the routine, but isn't truly happy of content any longer.

She snaps the soft bread from my hand in great mouthfuls,
Opening her rather pretty wedge of an iron, pristine face
Into an enormously wide-beaked mouth
Like sudden curved scissors,
And gulping at more than she can swallow, and working her thick, soft tongue,
And having the bread hanging over her chin.

I thought these lines were just hystrical, and the discription is so vivid.

[Janine]

First of all, I have to say that over all I found the poem to be quite funny in a lot of ways.



These lines here make me think of like a middle-aged housewife who is just stuck in the routine, but isn't truly happy of content any longer.




I thought these lines were just hystrical, and the discription is so vivid.

Yes, DM, I totally agree with the humor in this poem. In fact, the entire time I was reading this I thought - this is describing Lawrence and his wife Frieda perfectly. At least, I have a feeling he was greatly influenced by their now many yr old marrage. I will have to check out the exact date he wrote this, and see if this is true and indeed, he had been married awhile. One can see that between this tortoise pair the 'marriage bliss' has long since departed.

[Virgil]

Wait, is it "HE is large and matronly" or "She is large and matronly"?

[Dark Muse]

It is suppose to be She. The S just got left off in Janine's repost, but the original poem says She

[Virgil]

It is suppose to be She. The S just got left off in Janine's repost, but the original poem says She

Thank God. All of a sdden there I thought Lawrence was into transexualism.

[Dark Muse]

Hahahahaha

[Janine]

Thank God. All of a sdden there I thought Lawrence was into transexualism.

Hahaha - I did indeed forget the 'S' and just edited and placed it there. Definitely it was "SHE is large and madronly"....hahaha, sounds like Frieda in her late photos, doesn't it? No, don't think L was a transexual although he did write so often of those bright colored stocking; I wonder if he liked them so much he actually did wear them himself when no one was looking?

[Janine]

SHE is large and matronly
And rather dirty,
A little sardonic-looking, as if domesticity had driven her to it.

Though what she does, except lay four eggs at random in the garden once a year
And put up with her husband,
I don't know.

This last line particularly made me laugh. He could easily be describing his wife, although she did not lay eggs in the garden, ...rather this part: "And put up with her husband, I don't know." This line is so much of 'Lawrence' laughing at himself. It is certain, from my biographical research and reading, that Freida, his wife, did indeed 'put up' with a lot while living with the restless and tempermental writer.

She snaps the soft bread from my hand in great mouthfuls,
Opening her rather pretty wedge of an iron, pristine face
Into an enormously wide-beaked mouth
Like sudden curved scissors,
And gulping at more than she can swallow, and working her thick, soft tongue,
And having the bread hanging over her chin.

This part is not too attractive a portrait of the female, but still it is amusing/funny. I like the way he refers again to her wide-beaked mouth. He used that in some of the other tortoise poems. He likes to refer to their mouths as 'beak-like", which is kind of strange but primitive as well, tying the bird kingdom into the reptile kingdom in some obscure but Lawrence way. I like the line
"pretty wedge of an iron, pristine face" because it is curious to me how he puts these odd words together and yet comes up with an image and we know exactly what he is getting at. I think he is looking at the female tortoise as a figure of strength in this part of the description in using the word iron; or am I reading this wrong? Is this more of an ironic statement?

The last line "having the bread hanging over her chin" really make me chuckle. It seems humorously playful and not at all judgemental.

[Dark Muse]

This part is not too attractive a portrait of the female, but still it is amusing/funny. I like the way he refers again to her wide-beaked mouth. He used that in some of the other tortoise poems. He likes to refer to their mouths as 'beak-like", which is kind of strange but primitive as well, tying the bird kingdom into the reptile kingdom in some obscure but Lawrence way.

The mouths of turtles are acutally called beaks as well.

"pretty wedge of an iron, pristine face" because it is curious to me how he puts these odd words together and yet comes up with an image and we know exactly what he is getting at. I think he is looking at the female tortoise as a figure of strength in this part of the description in using the word iron; or am I reading this wrong? Is this more of an ironic statement?

I would agree with the allusion to strength here. It made me think of a sort of "hard" woman. Someone with a stern or severe looking face. It made me think of a woman who might be considered more handsome than pretty.

The last line "having the bread hanging over her chin" really make me chuckle. It seems humorously playful and not at all judgemental.

Yes I liked that

Like sudden curved scissors

I also wondered. Were the words scissors here used intentionally becasue they are a domestic, house hold item of which a woman would be given to use?

[Janine]

The mouths of turtles are acutally called beaks as well.

Ahha...we had wondered about that in the other poems. Thanks for that tidbit of information. I live on a lake with turtles - you would think I would have known that.

DM, you sure are right there on the beam after I post. Glad you noticed and commented.

I would agree with the allusion to strength here. It made me think of a sort of "hard" woman. Someone with a stern or severe looking face. It made me think of a woman who might be considered more handsome than pretty.

Good. I was just getting an impression, so it was a 'guess', but I suppose I was not far off. Again that reminds me of Frieda. I am sure Lawrence was thinking of her and a couple, who had been married for a number of years, when he wrote this.

Yes I liked that

Good.

I also wondered. Were the words scissors here used intentionally becasue they are a domestic, house hold item of which a woman would be given to use?

Yes, that word was interesting, wasn't it? I think I agree with you on this one. Kind of scary - DM, we have been agreeing way too much lately.

[Dark Muse]

Hehe I know it does get frightening when that happens

[Janine]

Hehe I know it does get frightening when that happens

Yes, very frightening...hummm....but somehow nice, really...are the planets lined up in a strange configuration? I think yours are definitely 'favorable' right now - you seem to have gotten 'inspired' and your creativity is blossoming, DM! I like the new threads you have started lately and the PreRaphaelite discussion group. I must go soon and check the progress there.


Before we move on with the text I think this stanza is so funny - I will explain:

She likes to eat.
She hurries up, striding reared on long uncanny legs,
When food is going.
Oh yes, she can make haste when she likes.

In descriptions by Lawrence of his wife he often pointed out that lines just like this one "she likes to eat." I read the travel books and she he would always talk about her going past a market and wanting to stop to get some exotic food or bread. I had to laugh when I read this line. Lawrence saw his wife like a turtle or vis versa....how funny The last line is funny too because often his portrayals of Freida made her seem slow and lazy, but as the poem says "Oh yes, she can make haste when she likes." - I can just see Lawrence reading this to his wife and the two of them laughing away.

By the way, I like to eat, so I can relate.