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Thread: D.H.Lawrence ~ The Tortoise Poems

  1. #76
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Hi ktd, let me say firstly, I need a break, too...I am feeling quite exhausted, even bug-eyed by now with all this computer work/ other active threads. So let us go slowly, at a 'tortoise's pace', as I said before.
    We will consider this one a slow, mellow 'summer' discussion so pop in, when and IF you can. These poems are real mind benders, as all Lawrence's work is, so it gets quite exhausting. I have enjoyed all your insightful posts, so enjoy your break, you deserve it...you did a fine job!

    I will go slowly with this one and Virgil is on vacation, so let's just consider this our vacation, as well. I have not even read the poem yet. I merely posted it. If you miss this poem there are others but really we will do this one super slow so you might still be able to participate -- don't worry about it and have a nice, relaxing break!



    Quote Originally Posted by ktd222 View Post
    In this poem, yes, I’m favoring the role of a “planned” process over evolution. I think that the order we see developing in this poem has less to do evolution. The patterns that we do see in the poem arose from a preset equation set by The Lord. Seeing patterns is one thing, attributing it to the Lord rather than the affects of earthly situations is another.
    I don't know that much about evolution and in fact I would like to read Darwin's book and may someday in the near future. Therefore I agree with what you say here. I think that if we over analysis the poem it will loose it's charm and loveliness. I think Lawrence merely observed the patterns and thought on them, pondering the idea of patterning in the universe and how all creatures and the world/universe are connected in this way.


    I feel this is Lawrence’s belief, and therefore is his truth. I don’t think it really matters whether this is an original concept or not, that is the concept conveyed in this poem. I don’t think it is the universal truth, but I still like the idea.
    I feel this way, too; I do think it is a wonderful observation and an astounding idea!

    There are other meanings with reference to Lord and the Cross? A poem should almost wholly be self-explanatory without needing one to do research on parts of the poem. I feel like I recognized what Lawrence was trying to achieve in that poem, and I’m satisfied with what I saw.
    Perhaps so but with Lawrence, when one knows things about his other philosophies/ideas it is hard to disregard them entirely. I think it is fine to take the poem as it is and for each person to interpret it in their own mind and personally, as to what it means to them. You are right in that a poem should stand alone and be self-explanatory. I think this poem very well does that, don't you? It is just that you must excuse Virgil and I since we have some prior knowledge of Lawrence's use of crosses and what they personally meant to him. Also the knowledge is in our minds of just how Lawrence interpreted religion. This poem may be early when Lawrence still believed in one supreme God. I do not know but the poem does seem to indicate that and whatever one wants to believe is perfectly correct and acceptable. This poem is meaningful to each person in a different way.


    I think this goes for almost every poem written, whether the author is established or not.
    I agree.

    I’m going to take a break, Janine. Feel free to continue the discussion without me; don’t feel bad about do so. I’ll come back to the discussion soon…if you are still discussing them.
    Enjoy your break! ~ Janine
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #77
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    Thanks Janine. I can't imagine being part of so many discussions simultaneously. It has got to be difficult to keep up. I don't know how you do it. I really enjoyed your posts as well. It’s not too often I can get into a discussion about poetry and feel like others are putting in the same effort to analyze, and not just comment on the poem. I’ll still be around, but I’ll be trying to predict who’s next to post.

  3. #78
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Hahaha! guess you were right!

    Thanks, ktd, and it has been very difficult these past months! It is good to be appreciated and nice to have had a 'real' and lively discussion; not just a 'review' after someone reads the material, as to whether they 'like it' or 'dislike it'. Many times that seems to be the case. We are here to discuss and not to complain, don't you agree? One of my pet peeves, I am afraid. Anyway, enjoy the time off. Happy you suggested this thread; it is a good one. Since I had bought the book of "Collected Poems" it is a good start for me and I never considered his 'animal/reptile' poems so great and now I see so much more to them. Thanks for opening my eyes to them!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  4. #79

    Angry

    The discussion about the Tortoise poem is really wonderful! I'm hoping for more about D.H.Lawrence's animal poems. Thank you!
    Eileen

  5. #80
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen wu View Post
    The discussion about the Tortoise poem is really wonderful! I'm hoping for more about D.H.Lawrence's animal poems. Thank you!
    Eileen
    On behalf of everyone who participated in this discussion, thank you Eileen. I hope to resume and complete the discussion on Lawrence's Tortoise poems. Perhaps shortly. Hopefully you can join us too.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  6. #81
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen wu View Post
    The discussion about the Tortoise poem is really wonderful! I'm hoping for more about D.H.Lawrence's animal poems. Thank you!
    Eileen
    Hi Eileen, so glad to see a new face here. The T poem discussions were put 'on hold' since one person needed a break and then a break sounded good to the other participants at the time. I think we were still on the poem - TORTOISE FAMILY CONNECTIONS - when we abandoned it and we should continue with that I believe; what do you think, Virgil? It is a good poem. I think there are a few more Tortoise poems in the series and as you said other animal poems, these would be of great interest, as well. Thank you, for your compliments on our discussion. It was so much fun - these poems were more interesting than I first perceived them to be. I can't wait to discuss more of them.

    I hope that you stay around - there are other discussions on D.H. Lawrence presently going on - or will be soon - Lawrence Short Stories will start up again in October - again... everyone needed a short break. Several of us plan on reading "Sons and Lovers" and discussing it - possibly in October, also, or if not then, in Novemeber. I am a big enthusiast of Lawrence's - you could not tell, right? Virgil shares this mutual interest. We recently did read/discuss in depth Lawrence's fine novel "Women in Love". You might be interested in checking out that thread - it may be a few pages back since it is not active presently. It was a fine discussion.

    Bye the way - welcome to Literature Network Forums! You will love the place I am sure. Everyone is so nice here and friendly and helpful.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  7. #82
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    We will be discussing D.H.Lawrence's Tortoise poems. I have posted the first of several poems. Each is uniquely distinct in their themes, ideas, symbolism, etc. This first poem deals with the birth of a baby tortoise, now being quite alone, in it's first days of life, and it's remarkable struggle to survive on earth. Wonderful poem and wonderful imagery!

    This is really one of the poems I am really moved by, and unquestionably Lawrence is a poet of great quality. He is a man of the flesh and of the blood, and what I really appreciate of him is the way he can enter the very spirit of the thing he writes about.

    I really get swayed by his poems and in fact get lost in a world of him, and engrossingly indeed. I read yesterday his two poems Piano and the Baby Tortoise. About Piano I have already wrote about the comment of it.

    When I read this poem I felt the poet entered the tortoise or he got possessed of the tortoise.

    And reading your predilection for him really moved me.

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  8. #83
    Thank you for being so helpful in understanding the tortoise poems. Surely I'll
    stay around and hopefully I can join in your discussion sometime I have more questions than comments . You know I need do more reading about D. H. Lawrence,my favourite poet.
    Eileen

  9. #84
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
    This is really one of the poems I am really moved by, and unquestionably Lawrence is a poet of great quality. He is a man of the flesh and of the blood, and what I really appreciate of him is the way he can enter the very spirit of the thing he writes about.

    I really get swayed by his poems and in fact get lost in a world of him, and engrossingly indeed. I read yesterday his two poems Piano and the Baby Tortoise. About Piano I have already wrote about the comment of it.

    When I read this poem I felt the poet entered the tortoise or he got possessed of the tortoise.

    And reading your predilection for him really moved me.
    Hi blazeofglory, Yes, this is a truly great poem. When I first read it I did not know just how much so and now I love 'Baby Tortoise'; we had a good discussion on that poem. Then with the next poem, which points out the significance of the patterns on the turtle's shell, we were able to bring up a world of possibilities for discussion. 'Baby Tortoise' is very 'touching' and made me think of Lawrence's own life struggles...the idea of 'an against all odds survival'. I felt also that Lawrence got right into the shell and this little being (the newly hatched turtle) and absolutely shared his feelings while describing him and his struggle for life. This is what makes the poem so great - it is so personal to Lawrence.
    blaze, I did read your insightful comments on the Piano poem. I will post a comment myself there soon.

    Hello again Eileen, You are quite welcome for any help we have provided or insight. I love Lawrence and he is my favorite author or at least one of them. I have read nearly all he has written, but I need to read all of his poems. I love some of them very much so. I am glad you plan to stay around for more discussions and feel free always to ask questions. This is how we all learn, isn't it? It is good to have you aboard!
    Last edited by Janine; 09-23-2007 at 11:43 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  10. #85
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Posting in here now to assure this thread stays open. Lately I have been thinking about this thread and wanted to revive it. There are more of the Tortoise poems to discuss. Anytime is great with me. I will try posting the next one soon.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  11. #86
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    What ever happened to KTD? She was such a nice young lady. I noticed she hasn't been on since early March. I miss her.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  12. #87
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    This sounds like it could be interesting, I might have to peek around this thread

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  13. #88
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    DM, glad to see you here and taking an interest. These poems make for really interesting discussions; you should check back and read some. I think there are 8 in the set Lawrence wrote, but don't quote me on that. I know that each one represents a different period in life - such as infant, child, adolescent and so forth. I forget just how many we have discussed so far; I will have to check on that.

    Yes, Virgil, a long while back she just announced she was taking a break and she never returned. I guess she got bored discussing these poems but I found them fascinating. It was her idea to begin with, remember. I imagine that people do get busy with real life.
    Last edited by Janine; 08-23-2008 at 11:46 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  14. #89
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Hehe I am just glad you are not tired of seeing me around yet

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  15. #90
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    You kidding? I got used to you and your weird sense of humor, DM. Besides we made a good Lawrence follower out of you. Now I find your quirpy tastes amusing and we get along fine; maybe we even bonded after some strange occurances awhile back where others were chomping at the bit in another L thread; I am sure you get my drift At anyrate, I think these poems are worthy of our attention and reviving them. Give me a day or so to decide where we left off.
    Last edited by Janine; 08-14-2008 at 03:10 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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