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Thread: D.H.Lawrence ~ The Tortoise Poems

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    D.H.Lawrence ~ The Tortoise Poems

    We will be discussing D.H.Lawrence's Tortoise poems. I have posted the first of several poems. Each is uniquely distinct in their themes, ideas, symbolism, etc. This first poem deals with the birth of a baby tortoise, now being quite alone, in it's first days of life, and it's remarkable struggle to survive on earth. Wonderful poem and wonderful imagery!




    Baby Tortoise
    by D.H. Lawrence


    You know what it is to be born alone,
    Baby tortoise!

    The first day to heave your feet little by little from
    the shell,
    Not yet awake,
    And remain lapsed on earth,
    Not quite alive.

    A tiny, fragile, half-animate bean.

    To open your tiny beak-mouth, that looks as if it would
    never open
    Like some iron door;
    To lift the upper hawk-beak from the lower base
    And reach your skinny neck
    And take your first bite at some dim bit of herbage,
    Alone, small insect,
    Tiny bright-eye,
    Slow one.

    To take your first solitary bite
    And move on your slow, solitary hunt.
    Your bright, dark little eye,
    Your eye of a dark disturbed night,
    Under its slow lid, tiny baby tortoise,
    So indomitable.

    No one ever heard you complain.

    You draw your head forward, slowly, from your little
    wimple
    And set forward, slow-dragging, on your four-pinned toes,
    Rowing slowly forward.
    Wither away, small bird?
    Rather like a baby working its limbs,
    Except that you make slow, ageless progress
    And a baby makes none.

    The touch of sun excites you,
    And the long ages, and the lingering chill
    Make you pause to yawn,
    Opening your impervious mouth,
    Suddenly beak-shaped, and very wide, like some suddenly
    gaping pincers;
    Soft red tongue, and hard thin gums,
    Then close the wedge of your little mountain front,
    Your face, baby tortoise.

    Do you wonder at the world, as slowly you turn your head
    in its wimple
    And look with laconic, black eyes?
    Or is sleep coming over you again,
    The non-life?

    You are so hard to wake.

    Are you able to wonder?
    Or is it just your indomitable will and pride of the
    first life
    Looking round
    And slowly pitching itself against the inertia
    Which had seemed invincible?

    The vast inanimate,
    And the fine brilliance of your so tiny eye,
    Challenger.

    Nay, tiny shell-bird.
    What a huge vast inanimate it is, that you must row
    against,
    What an incalculable inertia.

    Challenger,
    Little Ulysses, fore-runner,
    No bigger than my thumb-nail,
    Buon viaggio.

    All animate creation on your shoulder,
    Set forth, little Titan, under your battle-shield.
    The ponderous, preponderate,
    Inanimate universe;
    And you are slowly moving, pioneer, you alone.

    How vivid your travelling seems now, in the troubled
    sunshine,
    Stoic, Ulyssean atom;
    Suddenly hasty, reckless, on high toes.

    Voiceless little bird,
    Resting your head half out of your wimple
    In the slow dignity of your eternal pause.
    Alone, with no sense of being alone,
    And hence six times more solitary;
    Fulfilled of the slow passion of pitching through
    immemorial ages
    Your little round house in the midst of chaos.

    Over the garden earth,
    Small bird,
    Over the edge of all things.

    Traveller,
    With your tail tucked a little on one side
    Like a gentleman in a long-skirted coat.

    All life carried on your shoulder,
    Invincible fore-runner
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    I think perception plays an important part in defining this poem. I notice the speaker observing this baby tortoise being born and recognizing the unimaginable weight that it carries. He defines this weight as “all animate creation.” So there is really no time to be wasted away on this baby tortoises part. He compares the baby tortoise to a human baby, “Rather like a baby working its limbs,” then differentiates the two by stating “except that you(baby tortoise) make slow, ageless progress/and a baby makes none” – right from the point of being born, the speaker exemplifies the baby tortoise’s role in this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktd222 View Post
    I think perception plays an important part in defining this poem. I notice the speaker observing this baby tortoise being born and recognizing the unimaginable weight that it carries. He defines this weight as “all animate creation.” So there is really no time to be wasted away on this baby tortoises part. He compares the baby tortoise to a human baby, “Rather like a baby working its limbs,” then differentiates the two by stating “except that you(baby tortoise) make slow, ageless progress/and a baby makes none” – right from the point of being born, the speaker exemplifies the baby tortoise’s role in this world.
    Hi Ktd222, great, I have been waiting for you to post something, but I have been so busy with the book of the month postings that your delay was fine. Actually, your timing is perfect since we are almost done reading the book, WIL.

    Yes, Lawrence was amazingly perceptive and especially when it came to nature and the world's natural order of being and survival. I too think this line “all animate creation.” to describe the tortoise's shell says much and is quite important. Also I think it has much deeper meanings. The shell is both a home/shelter and a burden for such a tiny creature. It may be true that there is 'no time to waste on the baby tortoise's part' but it seems to me that the baby tortoise must persist progressing slowly, but steadily with much fortitude, in order to challenge this emense unknown daunting world/universe, and to simply survive and live. You quoted “except that you(baby tortoise) make slow, ageless progress/and a baby makes none” , then you stated your observation that "right from the point of being born, the speaker exemplifies the baby tortoise’s role in this world." I would basically agree with that, but I am not entirely sure what Lawrence's means when he says "a baby makes none." Is he pointing out that a baby is quite helpless but a baby tortoise is self-sufficient? I would think this is the idea. A baby is dependent on it's parents, while the tortoise must survive alone. 'Alone' is a huge part of the poem and 'self-sufficency' and 'challenge' and 'survival'. Of course, I can also see other meanings to the poem that directly relate to Lawrence and his ways of thinking/ideas/observations. I will address these later on.

    Several things stand out to me in this poem right away. Key words can be easily spotted. First the word 'alone' is used quite often. Immediately after being hatched the turtle is totally independent and on it's own. That is the natural way of nature. I always thought how strange that poor baby turtles/ tortoises never know their parents and must struggle in the first few days to survive, totally on their own. Note these lines:

    The very first line:
    You know what it is to be born alone,
    Then later on the line:

    Alone, small insect,
    And I especially like these lines:

    Alone, with no sense of being alone,
    And hence six times more solitary;
    And you are slowly moving, pioneer, you alone.
    To take your first solitary bite
    And move on your slow, solitary hunt.
    Here the word 'alone' is mentioned 5 times and 'solitary' twice,; there may be more in the poem. This is common and characteristic of Lawrence's poetry and his prose to use repetition of key words to emphasis his idea and deeper meaning. By using these words he sets the mood of the poem from the very first line - alone, solitary and also keeps the idea in our minds throughout the poem.
    Other lines that seem to emphasis this state of aloneness and solitude are lines and key words that contrast the emensity of the world to the tiny size of this newborn creature, thus 'contrast' is also a huge element reminescent of Lawrence's work such as dark/light tiny/huge, etc. For instance:

    A tiny, fragile, half-animate bean.
    To open your tiny beak-mouth,
    Tiny bright-eye,
    And the fine brilliance of your so tiny eye,
    Nay, tiny shell-bird.
    I count 5 lines with 'tiny' and one also has the word 'small'. There might be more lines with 'tiny' in them.

    Also, the use of the key word 'small' throughout the poem is evident. Note, when you go back over the lines you can pick out many with the words 'small' in them. Here is just one:

    Wither away, small bird?
    Here Lawrence's contrasts of tiny and huge are evident:

    Nay, tiny shell-bird.
    What a huge vast inanimate it is, that you must row
    against,
    What an incalculable inertia.
    The vast inanimate,
    And the fine brilliance of your so tiny eye,
    Over the garden earth,
    Small bird,
    Over the edge of all things.
    All of these combinations contrast the small with the infinite/huge/emense world the baby tortoise must 'challenge' now to survive. The word 'challenge', or some form of the word, is also used often in the poem.

    Ktd222, hope this gives you some new ideas. You know - this is a truly wonderful poem. After reading it several times now I just love it. It says so much, don't you think?
    Last edited by Janine; 06-20-2007 at 06:19 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    I haven't joined this discussion yet. Bear with me, I will.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I haven't joined this discussion yet. Bear with me, I will.
    Virgil, have you noticed how I learned from you - key words and contrast?

    The discussion is only just getting started so come back soon. It should be a good one. I love the poem and the ones to come are great, also.

    Did you forget about the short story thread? I think you were right and it will have to be for next month. I don't have time until the WIL book is overwith and no one else ventured to post. It is a 'short' short story this time also - not so difficult.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Virgil, have you noticed how I learned from you - key words and contrast?

    The discussion is only just getting started so come back soon. It should be a good one. I love the poem and the ones to come are great, also.

    Did you forget about the short story thread? I think you were right and it will have to be for next month. I don't have time until the WIL book is overwith and no one else ventured to post. It is a 'short' short story this time also - not so difficult.
    I'm afraid I didn't even read the posts here yet. Sorry.

    Absolutely no time for the L short story thread.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I'm afraid I didn't even read the posts here yet. Sorry.

    Absolutely no time for the L short story thread.
    Virgil, When you get a chance, maybe you can read the posts and add something insightful to our discussion. Always good to have your take on the poem and any symbolism, etc.

    I know - no time till next month for the L short story. I don't have time either. Just did not want you to forget it existed.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    I agree that Janine makes a lot of sense with focusing on the words, "alone" and "tiny". It is struggling against an immnese universe. There is a definite perspective as KTD points out, but I'm not sure what to make of that yet. There are a lot of endearing terms in there, and almost a sense of love and compassion toward it. In fact Lawrence makes it more endaring than a baby. But I'm not sure what he's suggesting.

    Without getting into the ideas yet, the poetry is quite nice. It seems to me that Lawrence captures the essence of the baby tortoise. I think that was his first priority with his animal poems, and he had a lot of animal poems. Reminds me of Gudrun's sketches in Women In Love. I'm not sure how he does it poetically, but the lines just read slow and paced, like a baby tortoise making its slow struggle to the sea. He must do it with the vowels and the sentence and phrase lengths.

    Enough for now. I'm going to have let this sink in a little more.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Yes, Lawrence was amazingly perceptive and especially when it came to nature and the world's natural order of being and survival. I too think this line “all animate creation.” to describe the tortoise's shell says much and is quite important. Also I think it has much deeper meanings. The shell is both a home/shelter and a burden for such a tiny creature. It may be true that there is 'no time to waste on the baby tortoise's part' but it seems to me that the baby tortoise must persist progressing slowly, but steadily with much fortitude, in order to challenge this emense unknown daunting world/universe, and to simply survive and live.
    He does seem to set up the inanimate world as a challenge for the baby tortoise, doesn’t he? And he gives insightful reasons for why the baby tortoise is up to the challenge: because of it’s “indomitable will and pride…pitching itself against the inertia/which had seemed invincible.” So you’re right. Maybe it’s maintaining pride through the means of “persistence and fortitude” to overcome the inanimate world. I hate to use a cliché here…but as the saying goes, “where there’s a will there’s a way.”

    I read this poem from the POV of the observer; and what I was saying was that from the onset this baby tortoise seemed of one mind, focused on achieving the ultimate goal of instilling animate creation into an inanimate world. The breadth of this statement encompasses the baby tortoise’s will.

    Although the shell is stressed less in this poem, I think it adds to the vivid imagery of actual weight the baby tortoise must bear. I tend to think he was going more for the metaphor here, though.

    You quoted “except that you(baby tortoise) make slow, ageless progress/and a baby makes none” , then you stated your observation that "right from the point of being born, the speaker exemplifies the baby tortoise’s role in this world." I would basically agree with that, but I am not entirely sure what Lawrence's means when he says "a baby makes none." Is he pointing out that a baby is quite helpless but a baby tortoise is self-sufficient? I would think this is the idea. A baby is dependent on it's parents, while the tortoise must survive alone. 'Alone' is a huge part of the poem and 'self-sufficency' and 'challenge' and 'survival'. Of course, I can also see other meanings to the poem that directly relate to Lawrence and his ways of thinking/ideas/observations. I will address these later on.
    Yes. I think he was setting up a comparison we can relate with…specifically how helpless a baby is when flailing its legs, versus the same baby, albeit in the form of a tortoise, is actually moving in a direction when “working its limbs.”

    Several things stand out to me in this poem right away. Key words can be easily spotted. First the word 'alone' is used quite often. Immediately after being hatched the turtle is totally independent and on it's own. That is the natural way of nature. I always thought how strange that poor baby turtles/ tortoises never know their parents and must struggle in the first few days to survive, totally on their own.
    I do this in my poetry as well. But for me it’s usually because I lack a wide ranging vocabulary. I liked that you picked out the word “alone.” This word is important to the poem’s meaning. Not because of what we usually think when thinking about “alone”: that there is some knowledge “others” is being distanced from the I…because the baby totoise does not even notice it is alone. There’s a quote you mentioned earlier: “Alone, with no sense of being alone,/and hence six times more solitary.” This quote is so telling, especially when what follows is “fulfilled of the slow passion of pitching through im/memorable ages,” because what seems to replace “others,” the awareness of being alone, is this passion to pitch itself through…

    The baby tortoise seems to not be aware of its surroundings. To not be distracted by your surroundings must be a difficult thing do, but to be unaware of your surroundings seems almost impossible. I think this is what makes the tortoise’s passion recognizable to the speaker, and may be the connection the speaker sees in this baby tortoise and humans.

    Ktd222, hope this gives you some new ideas. You know - this is a truly wonderful poem. After reading it several times now I just love it. It says so much, don't you think?
    Too many ideas. The poem quite nice, though. I’ll let someone else have a say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I haven't joined this discussion yet. Bear with me, I will.
    Great!! I hope others join as well. It is still fairly early in the discussion

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    I agree, the more participants the better.

    Ktd222, I will be back soon to answer your post and add some comments of my own later.

    I agree that Janine makes a lot of sense with focusing on the words, "alone" and "tiny". It is struggling against an immnese universe. There is a definite perspective as KTD points out, but I'm not sure what to make of that yet. There are a lot of endearing terms in there, and almost a sense of love and compassion toward it. In fact Lawrence makes it more endaring than a baby. But I'm not sure what he's suggesting.
    Virgil, Thanks, I picked up these methods from you...key words and all. You are a good teacher and perceptive to pick out those key words. It makes sense now to look for them right away. In this poem, the use of repetition is so prominent. I think I know what the perspective is and closely relates personally to Lawrence's own struggles against the world. I think in viewing the positive attitude that the baby tortoise must assume to progress with his life (living) he must go up against the huge immense world/universe in order to survive. To dive in deeper, how like Lawrence himself, carrying his 'home' on his back, up against the odds and surviving. I can see how he would relate to the tenacious little creature and feel empathy for it's struggle against the emensity of the world.
    For ktd, Lawrence was a wanderer and really established no physical home, asside from a ranch his wife owned in New Mexico. Also, the burden of the shell could be related, I believe, to all the burdens Lawrence had to come up against: carrying his talent/genius and even fight against his illness with him where-ever he went. In this way I feel the poem has a great significance for Lawrence or at least he can relate to the struggle that the baby tortoise must encounter on it's slow and persistent journey of life. All Lawrence's burdens posed great challenges in his life, yet he never alowed himself to feel sorry for himself, he never let these things stop him. If you notice he uses the word 'challenge' quite often in the poem.

    Also, there are single lines that seem to stand out purposely from the main body of the poem. One that particularly strikes me is

    "No one ever heard you complain."

    Also the last two lines stand out magnificently

    "All life carried on your shoulder,
    Invincible fore-runner"

    These lines stand out to me, because Lawrence felt he was a 'fore-runner' himself in the new order of the world he envisioned. He was very much an idealist and wanted the old ways to fall behind and new ones to emerge. This also could signify the meaning of the shell upon the tortoise's back. I feel this poem is very personal to Lawrence and that is why the poem feels so definite in it's perception.

    Without getting into the ideas yet, the poetry is quite nice. It seems to me that Lawrence captures the essence of the baby tortoise. I think that was his first priority with his animal poems, and he had a lot of animal poems. Reminds me of Gudrun's sketches in Women In Love. I'm not sure how he does it poetically, but the lines just read slow and paced, like a baby tortoise making its slow struggle to the sea. He must do it with the vowels and the sentence and phrase lengths.
    Yes, this does very much recall me to those sketches. I think you are absolutely right - the poem is slow and paced - wonderful, is it not? I don't know poem structure as you do, but it seems as though 'the vowels and the sentence and phrase lengths' set up that pace, as you suggest. It is like pauses in the poem's body and paces the lines with the slow/steady moving of the tortoise. Brilliant.

    Enough for now. I'm going to have let this sink in a little more.
    It takes time to do that. I have read it now about 5 or so times at least. It gets better and more meaningful the more I read it. A very interesting poem; I had not realised just how much, till I started really 'seeing' it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ktd222 View Post
    He does seem to set up the inanimate world as a challenge for the baby tortoise, doesn’t he? And he gives insightful reasons for why the baby tortoise is up to the challenge: because of it’s “indomitable will and pride…pitching itself against the inertia/which had seemed invincible.” So you’re right. Maybe it’s maintaining pride through the means of “persistence and fortitude” to overcome the inanimate world. I hate to use a cliché here…but as the saying goes, “where there’s a will there’s a way.”
    Hi ktd, Yes, and as I said he uses that term often and also Greek Mythological references who also encountered great obstacles and challenges. Interesting, isn't it? I love that "indomitable will and pride" because I directly see that is how Lawrence lived his own life. I am sure he has great admiration for this creature and feels an affinity to it and it's place in the world as a 'challenger'. The cliche fits perfectly. Yes, where there is a will there's a way". It seems the will is the driving force here and the way is the only way to survive and truly live.

    I read this poem from the POV of the observer; and what I was saying was that from the onset this baby tortoise seemed of one mind, focused on achieving the ultimate goal of instilling animate creation into an inanimate world. The breadth of this statement encompasses the baby tortoise’s will.
    I also read this from the POV of the observer - Lawrence himself. I quite agree with the rest of your statement.

    Although the shell is stressed less in this poem, I think it adds to the vivid imagery of actual weight the baby tortoise must bear. I tend to think he was going more for the metaphor here, though.
    Definitely the metaphor. This ties in with the themes I earlier stated relating directly to Lawrence. The shell is represents many things, I believe - home, shelter, responsibility, etc.

    Yes. I think he was setting up a comparison we can relate with…specifically how helpless a baby is when flailing its legs, versus the same baby, albeit in the form of a tortoise, is actually moving in a direction when “working its limbs.”
    I understand this better now. Yes, the legs of the baby just flailing in air, as a contrast to the driving will of the little legs of the tortoise. Yes, interesting that you said "the same baby, albeit". Lawrence was very much against inertia of man and he moved forward himself always with a great indominable will. Interesting.

    I do this in my poetry as well. But for me it’s usually because I lack a wide ranging vocabulary. I liked that you picked out the word “alone.” This word is important to the poem’s meaning. Not because of what we usually think when thinking about “alone”: that there is some knowledge “others” is being distanced from the I…because the baby totoise does not even notice it is alone. There’s a quote you mentioned earlier: “Alone, with no sense of being alone,/and hence six times more solitary.” This quote is so telling, especially when what follows is “fulfilled of the slow passion of pitching through im/memorable ages,” because what seems to replace “others,” the awareness of being alone, is this passion to pitch itself through…
    At first reading of this part of your post, I did not fully understand, but now I do. That is good. Lawrence also was quite alone in that his ideas were not accepted at that time. His own life was an emense struggle of will and a challenge always.

    The baby tortoise seems to not be aware of its surroundings. To not be distracted by your surroundings must be a difficult thing do, but to be unaware of your surroundings seems almost impossible. I think this is what makes the tortoise’s passion recognizable to the speaker, and may be the connection the speaker sees in this baby tortoise and humans.
    Interesting, since I did not pick this up. I felt he had a vague idea of his surroundings but it is true that he is not distracted by them. He seems to have a pair of blinders on in order to fully concentrate on his goal of moving onward. Lawrence is definitely making the conncection to humans in this poem. The more I read it the more evident it becomes. That is why it is so easy to relate to the struggle and the poem. It is a fine example to humans - the testament of the tortoise's tenacity and fortitude.

    Too many ideas. The poem quite nice, though. I’ll let someone else have a say.
    [/Quote]
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Lawrence was a wanderer and really established no physical home, asside from a ranch his wife owned in New Mexico. Also, the burden of the shell could be related, I believe, to all the burdens Lawrence had to come up against: carrying his talent/genius and even fight against his illness with him where-ever he went. In this way I feel the poem has a great significance for Lawrence or at least he can relate to the struggle that the baby tortoise must encounter on it's slow and persistent journey of life. All Lawrence's burdens posed great challenges in his life, yet he never alowed himself to feel sorry for himself, he never let these things stop him. If you notice he uses the word 'challenge' quite often in the poem.
    I never knew Lawrence had so many obstacles in his life. It does correlate well with the idea moving through the tortoise poem. It’s always touching to glimpse into someone else’s life, and feel their emotions through their works.

    As for the word “challenger,” besides from the obvious, why do you suppose Lawrence connects tortoise, to challenger, to little Ulysses…? Is this possibly the first step in relating the tortoise to human beings? I’m not sure. I never really worked out this correlation.

    Also, there are single lines that seem to stand out purposely from the main body of the poem. One that particularly strikes me is

    "No one ever heard you complain."

    Also the last two lines stand out magnificently

    "All life carried on your shoulder,
    Invincible fore-runner"

    These lines stand out to me, because Lawrence felt he was a 'fore-runner' himself in the new order of the world he envisioned. He was very much an idealist and wanted the old ways to fall behind and new ones to emerge. This also could signify the meaning of the shell upon the tortoise's back. I feel this poem is very personal to Lawrence and that is why the poem feels so definite in it's perception.
    You know what’s also interesting about the last couple of lines…that the baby tortoise is now described as “invincible.” Remember that somewhere in the middle of the poem it was the world which seemed invincible? So by poem’s end I get a sense this baby tortoise, which started out its journey half-alive, fragile, almost incapable of movement, has come full circle to become incapable of being subdued itself. It is unconquerable.

    Definitely the metaphor. This ties in with the themes I earlier stated relating directly to Lawrence. The shell is represents many things, I believe - home, shelter, responsibility, etc.
    I wonder if the baby tortoise would look like a baby bird if it did not contain a shell?

    Interesting, since I did not pick this up. I felt he had a vague idea of his surroundings but it is true that he is not distracted by them. He seems to have a pair of blinders on in order to fully concentrate on his goal of moving onward. Lawrence is definitely making the conncection to humans in this poem. The more I read it the more evident it becomes. That is why it is so easy to relate to the struggle and the poem. It is a fine example to humans - the testament of the tortoise's tenacity and fortitude.
    Here’s another example, kind of a funny one at that, relating the tortoise’s focus:
    “Do you wonder at the world…?” – This question, suggested by the speaker, simply asked if the baby tortoise thought or was curious about the world.

    “Are you able to wonder?” – This second question turns on the first question and asks if the baby tortoise is able to wonder at all.

    There seems to be a natural tendency or assumption that living things have thoughts about their surroundings. But in this case, it seems the speaker is unable to recognize the look of wonder on this baby tortoise and therefore ask if it is able to wonder at all.

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    Ktd, I read your post - you bring up some very good points and some good questions as well. I will answer them tomorrow.
    Did you happen to see the add at the top of our page - it is for live tortoises. I really had to laugh. At first I could not believe my eyes. Funny, don't you think?
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  14. #14
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Ktd, I read your post - you bring up some very good points and some good questions as well. I will answer them tomorrow.
    Did you happen to see the add at the top of our page - it is for live tortoises. I really had to laugh. At first I could not believe my eyes. Funny, don't you think?
    I noticed that ad too.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    Books are embalmed minds.

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  15. #15
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I noticed that ad too.
    Virgil, Really funny, isn't it? Wonder if the mods did that on purpose?

    Can you check in and read the last couple posts on "Sons and Lovers" thread? There are a few questions I had a hard time answering for Pensive - mostly pertaining to Lawrence's religious beliefs. I think you can explain them better than I can.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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