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Thread: Islam

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    Registered User linz's Avatar
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    Islam

    I started studying Islam a while back, it has made me very please and interested in history and justice. In the initial stages of the Religion, Muhammad was concerned with the injustice to the poor and that the tribes of Arabia were drifting from their original righteous doctrines. Muhammad was concerned that the Christian and the Hebrews had received a true revelation of an Almighty Creator, where the Arabian Tribes had not yet received an ultimate revelation. Muhammad would go to a mountain to pray and fast, and it is here, through great pains that the words of the Islamic Revelation occurred from the angel Gabriel. It is important to emphasize that Muhammad believed Allah was to the Islamic Quran as Christ to Christianity in the New Testament and The Lord to the Hebrews in the Torah. He believe that they were all revelations to each peoples of proper Monotheism. The foundation of Islam by Muhammad is more concerned with the injustice of civilization, and how Allah intended man to respect and care for each person, even the most weak and vulnerable. This is the proper frame of Islam; How Allah intended us to treat each other, and is the foundation of Islams civilization.
    "Why describe the hole, I mean it is a hole; So why describe it?" - Anonymous

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    Moderator Logos's Avatar
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    Is there a question for discussion here I'm not seeing?
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    I think some people may take issue with your comparison of Allah to Christ. Allah is the equivalent to God not Jesus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilted exile View Post
    I think some people may take issue with your comparison of Allah to Christ. Allah is the equivalent to God not Jesus.
    Yes. As a Muslim i never understood Christ. I understand God, but can't understand "three is one, one is three".

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    Registered User linz's Avatar
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    Are there different ways which become the same way? Was both Christ and Muhammad correct, as well as the Buddha? Does the path lead to an ultimate unifying forced similarly as Jung and his collective-conscience says. That is the question, I suppose?
    "Why describe the hole, I mean it is a hole; So why describe it?" - Anonymous

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    Hz. Jesus, Hz. Muhammed, Hz. Moses, Hz. İbrahim are all same according to İslam. But not Christ, Jesus. As a man and a prophet of God.

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    Registered User linz's Avatar
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    Christ is himself admittedly an enigma. "I have much more to tell you, but you couldn't bare it now." "I have spoken to you figuratively, but one day I shall speak to you plainly about the father." "You shall no the truth and the truth shall set you free." All these quotes come from after the last supper in The Gospel of John.
    "Why describe the hole, I mean it is a hole; So why describe it?" - Anonymous

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    The Word is Serendipitous Lote-Tree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by linz View Post
    [SIZE="4"]Are there different ways which become the same way?
    I think your question is this: How many paths to God?

    Answer: As there are many stars in the Universe.

    Was both Christ and Muhammad correct, as well as the Buddha?
    Yes. Because God is a subjective Experience of the Individual.

    Does the path lead to an ultimate unifying forced similarly as Jung and his collective-conscience says.
    May be but you can't objectively verify a subjective experience.

    So you are left with Belief.
    I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
    Some letter of that After-life to spell:
    And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
    And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lote-Tree View Post
    Yes. Because God is a subjective Experience of the Individual.
    Wrong-- I have said this before and will say it again. God MUST HAVE some objective reality-- even if He is nonexistent. Someone must be at least a little bit closer to the truth. God must be real in some way-- just as I must be real in some way. Just as you must be real in some way. Just as EVERYTHING must have some fact about it-- including nonexistence.
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    Registered User linz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weepingforloman View Post
    Wrong-- I have said this before and will say it again. God MUST HAVE some objective reality-- even if He is nonexistent. Someone must be at least a little bit closer to the truth. God must be real in some way-- just as I must be real in some way. Just as you must be real in some way. Just as EVERYTHING must have some fact about it-- including nonexistence.

    I'm a little hesitant, but I agree with weepingforloman. After all, after Christ words to the seven churches, the imagery of The Almighty Lord and His Lamb, especially the imagery such as 'all nations and tongues', and 'washed their robes clean', are wholly universal in suggestion.
    "Why describe the hole, I mean it is a hole; So why describe it?" - Anonymous

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    The Word is Serendipitous Lote-Tree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weepingforloman View Post
    Wrong-- I have said this before and will say it again. God MUST HAVE some objective reality-- even if He is nonexistent. Someone must be at least a little bit closer to the truth. God must be real in some way-- just as I must be real in some way. Just as you must be real in some way. Just as EVERYTHING must have some fact about it-- including nonexistence.
    If you trace the history of the Idea of God you will find that "God" as reality has never been experienced as Objective Reality. They have always been subjective experiences of the individual.
    I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
    Some letter of that After-life to spell:
    And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
    And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"


    Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lote-Tree View Post
    If you trace the history of the Idea of God you will find that "God" as reality has never been experienced as Objective Reality. They have always been subjective experiences of the individual.
    You mean like God giving Moses the Ten Commandments???? That doesn't sound subjective. Quite tangible. Or the Apostles meeting the ressurected Christ? How is that subjective? It sounds like it's what you choose to consider subjective.
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    Registered User linz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    You mean like God giving Moses the Ten Commandments???? That doesn't sound subjective. Quite tangible. Or the Apostles meeting the ressurected Christ? How is that subjective? It sounds like it's what you choose to consider subjective.
    Very Good! I would never have thought of that.
    "Why describe the hole, I mean it is a hole; So why describe it?" - Anonymous

  14. #14
    Maybe we should define what kind of God we are talking about first.
    Sweet is the voice from far away
    That speaks sotto voce and
    Is lingering there in the golden air
    To quiet the day


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    Registered User Shield&Sword's Avatar
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    Mouhammed wasnt concerned why arabs didnt get massage, as Jews got one and christians one. If a person is Jews because they believe in Moses pbuh then muslims are jews, and if christians are christians because they follow Jesus pbuh then muslims are christians. islam is not religion for arabs its religion for all mankind thats why prophet Mouhammed pbuh sent massages to king of egypt who was christian and to Romans king and to persian king who was disbeliever, even at the begining of islam there were companions one was jews and one was christian and one was disbeliever.
    Islam claim to be the right judasim and came to correct the ideas about Moses, same thing about jesus and his mother and about all other prophets that other books claim that they were drunk or made incest or adultery peace be upon them all, thats why a muslim is not muslim if he doesnt believe in Jesus or Moses or Noah even if he believe in Mouhammed. And most important of islam is to give the right idea and belief about God, one almighty nothing like him, he got no wife no son no father no man form no incarnation no one equal to him no stones equal to him, he always was and will be and every thing is lower than him and every thing else was created by him. If you got any one that claim these things nowadays then he is muslim.
    Budha can be compared to pagans at time of Mouhammed pbub who believed in one God but they made stones and worshiped them to make them closer to God, i think same thing the far east countries believe, so no way to be compared with Mouhammed and jesus peace be upon them.
    God is not subjected to man experience as Lote intend, i think in part yes, meaning that knowing God come after we look around and come to result that all this came from stupid quincedence. The idea of God doesnt not change but the way in believing change, some add the stones some add the cows and so on, but the main idea cant be canceled, for me there is one way only right and to be known we most experience and think here the claim of Lote will be right.

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