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Thread: racism; why exactly is it there???

  1. #1
    that one dude ulvmane's Avatar
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    racism; why exactly is it there???

    I'm not trying to cause an argument so please don't all me racist. The thought has always just been in my head of "what caused racism?" and I figured that the large majority of this site is intellectual (I finally feel at home ) so i was hopeing to achieve 2 things.
    1. a good convorsation
    2. hopefully an answer or two
    so if anyone can help answer "how did racism/segregation of minority groups start" please please PLEASE give a response

    DANKE!

  2. #2
    Mal de Mer Man BibliophileTRJ's Avatar
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    WOW! That's a loaded question.

    I think that the (VERY) simple answer is that it's human nature to distrust/dislike anything and anyone that is different from oneself.

    I think that celebrating and learning from diversity is a relatively new concept.

  3. #3
    that one dude ulvmane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BibliophileTRJ View Post

    I think that the (VERY) simple answer is that it's human nature to distrust/dislike anything and anyone that is different from oneself.
    that was what i was thinking at first but it just starts makeing less sense when you see small children of any race not careing about gender, race, or sexual orientation. It makes me wonder if we would be better if children ran the world.

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    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    racism

    To ulvmane: Getting a strong feeling, members and guests alike will avoid this issue like the plague. Personally, I'm not intimidated by it. First let me say I will no longer apologize for my ancestors and their real or learned racism. I always felt a vague sense of guilt and unease when any untoward remarks were made at the family home, especially if around the dinner table. The "N" word was used and it bothered me and at the same time, I felt there was some sort of subconscious conditioning going on and this was one learned behavior I wanted no part of. My father was the last in this line of Lithuanians who "felt" obliged to speak this way and try to convince us children that to do so was the way of the world. Somewhere, somehow, we knew it was not. One particular inconsistancy occured when my father had to address or deal with black customers. He treated them better than white customers; whether this was a result of his mercenary sense or just his true self, I can only guess. Nevertheless, I never heard a harsh word from him directed at black people or other minorities, at least in the business world, ever. At home, a different story. My reaction to all this is that learned behavior can be destructive and extemely mean spirited; this doesn't mean you have to feel responsible for it, unless you go along. Now I hear of what some call institutionalized anti-racism where blacks or other minorities take advantage of this negative history for the purpose of playing off white guilt; where the whites may be responsible by reason of acquiecance or not. In these scenarios, the people who are the sons, grand-daughters, uncles or true victims of racist events or attacks, treat all non-minorities like they are necessarily part of the problem. This just replaces one vice with another. We may stand on our ancestor's shoulders but maybe we didn't take part in the negative feelings or actions. I'd be willing to run this one past M.L.King for his opinion and I think he would judge you perhaps, as part of the problem, neutral (if that is possible) or part of the solution. quasimodo1

  5. #5
    laudator temporis acti andave_ya's Avatar
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    People like to be domineering. If someone feels he is above a person and leaves that feeling to grow will lead to racism.
    "The time has come," the Walrus said,
    "To talk of many things:
    Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
    Of cabbages--and kings--
    And why the sea is boiling hot--
    And whether pigs have wings."

  6. #6
    Banned Turk's Avatar
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    Arrogance. Hate. Feeling unsafe and unsure of oneself. Being unable to criticize oneself.

  7. #7
    Suzerain of Cost&Caution SleepyWitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    Feeling unsafe and unsure of oneself.
    that's a very good answer, Turk
    i think there's a lot of truth in this, because people who feel unsure of themselves need someone they can look down on so they can feel "higher up"/ superior themselves.
    as long as only one race is involved those who are lower down on the social ladder are left out of the game. they will be the ones their powerful and rich countrymen or people of the same "race" look down on. so this "race" is divided withing it itself and they'd go at each others throat sooner or later if it wasn't for a common enemy whom they can all look down on.
    even the poorest, most stupid, "trailer-camp white trash" person can feel superior to members of other "races" because this kind of hierarchy is not based on riches or achievement but solely on what colour your skin is.

    ...I don't know about children, but maybe one of the reasons they are not racist is that very young children don't have all the identity issues adolescents and grown-ups have... i mean they are hardly aware of the differences between themselves and the outside world and don't really develop an I until the age of 3...
    so they don't really have what we would call an identity and thus there's no need for them to keep redefining, defending and comparing their identy...

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    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    I hate to bust anyone's illusions about the lack of prejudices and racism among children but such simply has no basis in reality. I teach art to children from Kindergarten through 8th grade and I am regularly forced to deal with racial slurs... in spite of the fact that almost all of the children are black. The darker-skinned children call those with lighter skin "white" (and it is most certainly taken as an insult) while the lighter skinned kids will refer to the darker skinned kids as "black", "African", "Nigerian", "coal", etc...
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
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    Banned Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    I hate to bust anyone's illusions about the lack of prejudices and racism among children but such simply has no basis in reality. I teach art to children from Kindergarten through 8th grade and I am regularly forced to deal with racial slurs... in spite of the fact that almost all of the children are black. The darker-skinned children call those with lighter skin "white" (and it is most certainly taken as an insult) while the lighter skinned kids will refer to the darker skinned kids as "black", "African", "Nigerian", "coal", etc...
    Yeah, that's possible. Since racism is an ill, and children can get that ill from their parents.

    I would also like to say Darwinism and Materialism are two of most important sources of modern racism.

  10. #10
    deus ex machina Shalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    Yeah, that's possible. Since racism is an ill, and children can get that ill from their parents.

    I would also like to say Darwinism and Materialism are two of most important sources of modern racism.
    I took a class about racism and we started out with a definition of capitalism -- does capitalism = materialism?

    Does capitalism promote competition and therefore result in better goods and services for all of humankind (or at least for those that can pay for the goods and services -- the rest of us can read/hear about the new technologies etc)
    "...if you weren't smart enough to get a pedophile in a dress to put a small amount of water on the child’s forehead, then what the eff did you think was going to happen?

  11. #11
    Suzerain of Cost&Caution SleepyWitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    I hate to bust anyone's illusions about the lack of prejudices and racism among children but such simply has no basis in reality. I teach art to children from Kindergarten through 8th grade and I am regularly forced to deal with racial slurs... in spite of the fact that almost all of the children are black. The darker-skinned children call those with lighter skin "white" (and it is most certainly taken as an insult) while the lighter skinned kids will refer to the darker skinned kids as "black", "African", "Nigerian", "coal", etc...
    yeah, I agree with you StLuke... from a certain age on even children can be racist. but I think they pick it up either from their parents or from other kids who've picked it up from their parents
    Last edited by SleepyWitch; 06-07-2007 at 07:48 AM.

  12. #12
    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
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    I agree that this is a very loaded question, but if i had to ultra-condense my answers-
    Fear and ignorance.
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

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    Banned Turk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dramasnot6 View Post
    I agree that this is a very loaded question, but if i had to ultra-condense my answers-
    Fear and ignorance.
    I am not so sure about the ignorance part. Germans was the one of the most educated and well cultured nations of Europe when before Hitler and at the time of Hitler.

  14. #14
    In a rainbow. Mortis Anarchy's Avatar
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    I never really experienced racism until probably the immigration 'problem' in the united states abrupted. I'm of Mexican origin...and proud of it!...so I got a lot of slurs and very cruel things to me said. Even by some of my teachers, they said that they were just joking, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    I am not so sure about the ignorance part. Germans was the one of the most educated and well cultured nations of Europe when before Hitler and at the time of Hitler.

    Well, okay...I'm not in total disagreement with you, but you have to look at the time period for response to it as well. There are some parts of it that totally make me gag because of the lack of concern or thought but other parts are different. I have no response really to pre-Hitler but I have to say that Germany was really, really in the gutter at the time. Hitler took the opportunity and just brainwashed everyones mind. Again, there are somethings that are absurd, but I don't think we can lay it all on Germany. I think racism is a mixture or hate, ignorance, arrogance and fear...mixed in with the time periods as well. Again, I'm not justifying anyones actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    Yeah, that's possible. Since racism is an ill, and children can get that ill from their parents.

    I would also like to say Darwinism and Materialism are two of most important sources of modern racism.
    I'm not sure what you mean by Darwinism and Materialism being a source of racism?

  15. #15
    solid motherhubbard's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I have given this thought since I was a little girl. I’m white, but I was in the minority until I was eight and we moved. Now I live in the home town of racism. I can tell you that there is no way to even talk about another possibility to those who are blinded by ignorance and hatred. I had all of this other very interesting stuff typed, but I‘m afraid it‘s not general enough to be postable. I used to work with a boy who is now a leader in the KKK. I have many questions that can’t be answered.

    1. How can you be a Christian and hate Jews when Jesus was a Jew- he looked like a Jew, worshiped like a Jew, and ate like a Jew? For that matter how can you be a Christian and hate anyone?

    2. If there were only two black people (as black as people come) and they had to populate the whole earth, how long would it take before you had some white people? Pale skin and blue eyes are triple recessive traits. Triple recessive traits are caused by inbreeding. If there were only two white people to populate the earth there would never be any black people. Inbreeding does not cause darkness.

    3. What makes people who think they are so much better, so much better? I want someone to name for me the thing about their “kind” that is actually superior.

    Really I think that this is a problem that is much greater than race. There are all kinds of discriminations. Some men think they are better than women, some Chinese think they are better than Vietnamese, some rich better than poor, educated better than uneducated, one religion better than all the others…

    I’ll never understand.

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