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Thread: Hello

  1. #1
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Hello

    If anybody wants to discuss about anything in this great novel; I am very interested.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
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  2. #2
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werther View Post
    Bazarov, I don't mean to go on about this but why do you dispute that Bazarov is a nihilist? He is by his own admission a nihilist; he proclaims himself a nihilist several times throughout the story. And does this mean that you approve of the character Bazarov? Please answer in full to all of these questions. I am really, really curious. Also, it's great to have discovered somebody who has read Fathers And Sons.
    My opinion, after reading and many rereading of this novel; is that Bazarov isn't a nihilist.
    I know he proclaimed himself as a nihilist for several times, but didn't Arkady do the same? And I am sure you don't think that Arkady is a nihilist. The difference is; Arkady realized that his nihilism leads nowhere; how hard is to deny family, love, God etc. Bazarov realized it also, but maybe too late, or he just didn't have enough strength to accept it. His sudden love with Odincova, love for his parents and realization that his actually nobody special are things that made my opinion about this. I find him rather as a cynic, not as a nihilist.
    What do you think?
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  3. #3
    The Word is Serendipitous Lote-Tree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov View Post
    Gather your roses while you may, for time is still flying. But know the roses that bloom today, tomorrow may be dying.
    Look to the blowing Rose about us-"Lo
    Laughing" she says," into the world I blow,
    at once the silken tassel fo my Purse
    Tear and its Treasure on the Garden throw."
    I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
    Some letter of that After-life to spell:
    And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
    And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"


    Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales

  4. #4
    Two Gun Kid Idril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov View Post
    My opinion, after reading and many rereading of this novel; is that Bazarov isn't a nihilist.
    I know he proclaimed himself as a nihilist for several times, but didn't Arkady do the same? And I am sure you don't think that Arkady is a nihilist. The difference is; Arkady realized that his nihilism leads nowhere; how hard is to deny family, love, God etc. Bazarov realized it also, but maybe too late, or he just didn't have enough strength to accept it. His sudden love with Odincova, love for his parents and realization that his actually nobody special are things that made my opinion about this. I find him rather as a cynic, not as a nihilist.
    What do you think?
    I agree with you there. I think he loved the idea of being a nihilist, in some ways it freed him from many responsibilities and obligations but it also isolated him and left him a very lonely man in the end. As Arkady moved away from that philosophy, I think Bazarov was at first disappointed and disgusted a wee bit but as he saw the things Arkady gained from moving in a different direction and as you said, his love of Odintsova, I think he began to see how desolate his life had really become in some ways.
    the luminous grass of the prairie hides
    feet lovely and still as sleeping doves,
    porcelain bones strong enough to carry a life,
    but weighty and unmovable
    As black Dakota hills.
    ~ Riesa

  5. #5
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lote-Tree View Post
    Look to the blowing Rose about us-"Lo
    Laughing" she says," into the world I blow,
    at once the silken tassel fo my Purse
    Tear and its Treasure on the Garden throw."
    I am afraid I don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idril View Post
    I agree with you there. I think he loved the idea of being a nihilist, in some ways it freed him from many responsibilities and obligations but it also isolated him and left him a very lonely man in the end. As Arkady moved away from that philosophy, I think Bazarov was at first disappointed and disgusted a wee bit but as he saw the things Arkady gained from moving in a different direction and as you said, his love of Odintsova, I think he began to see how desolate his life had really become in some ways.
    Idril agrees with me I don't believe it!

    I don't think that Bazarov was disappointed in Arkady; I think he was aware of his strong influence on Arkady, and he was pretty sure what will happen in situation when his nihilism would have to be shown. Bazarov's only problem was problem of every man; when you fall in love, all your statements are almost ruined...
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  6. #6
    Two Gun Kid Idril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov View Post
    Idril agrees with me I don't believe it!
    It happens occasionally.

    Maybe disappointed is a bit strong, I don't know what word would be better, sad maybe, regretful at losing his comrade in thought? Maybe like you said he knew it was inevitable, that Arkady's nihilism didn't have very strong roots but that doesn't mean he didn't feel a sort of loss, again, not a great word but the best one that comes to mind at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov
    Bazarov's only problem was problem of every man; when you fall in love, all your statements are almost ruined...
    Love stinks! It compromises everything, turns you into something unrecognizable...how's that for bitter?
    the luminous grass of the prairie hides
    feet lovely and still as sleeping doves,
    porcelain bones strong enough to carry a life,
    but weighty and unmovable
    As black Dakota hills.
    ~ Riesa

  7. #7
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idril View Post
    Maybe disappointed is a bit strong, I don't know what word would be better, sad maybe, regretful at losing his comrade in thought? Maybe like you said he knew it was inevitable, that Arkady's nihilism didn't have very strong roots but that doesn't mean he didn't feel a sort of loss, again, not a great word but the best one that comes to mind at the moment.
    Well, teacher lost his student, surely he was sad; but he knew it will happen so he was, let's say; prepared for it.



    Love stinks!
    I didn't say that!

    It compromises everything, turns you into something unrecognizable...how's that for bitter?
    Well,something like that...
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  8. #8
    Being new here, I'm not sure how active this thread is, and I admit to not reading *most* of it.

    However, I am studying the novel at present -- which involves reading and/ or listening to it several times a week ... and I found this a very interesting observation...

    Quote Originally Posted by bazarov View Post
    My opinion, after reading and many rereading of this novel; is that Bazarov isn't a nihilist.
    And with this in mind, it is the greatest irony that he succumbed to the greatest authority we know -- that of death.

    Thank you for that thought.

  9. #9
    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Welcome on forum!
    I don't understand.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

  10. #10
    LOL.

    The author of the book takes great pains to tell us -- often through Bazarov's own protestations that he is a nihilist, and that he rejects all authority.

    When this book was written, it's probable to say that most people would have believed in God as being an authority figure. Hence, the irony that in the end, Bazarov succumbed to death, and God would have been seen as responsible for that.

    It was just a thought... not sure if I've explained it properly, and I could be completely wrong
    "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."

    David Henry Thoreau

  11. #11
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    Well when Turgenev was writing Fathers and Sons the definition of a 'nihilist' was still a little obscure, he himself coined the word nihilist in 'Fathers and Sons'.

    So that could be a reason why maybe Bazarov only thought he was a nihilist.

  12. #12
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    Does Bazarov transcend himself?

    We usually are what we think we are. However, as time passes we may, if we're lucky, actually transcend what we have been perhaps for many years. Could this be what happens to Bazarov? We all need to go beyond what we are, to become something more than just an object of our own opinion. I would call this "magnanimity", which is simply greatness of soul. And it goes well with humility, ironically enough.

  13. #13
    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Their nihilism was a bit different to what I understood by the term, but maybe I did not understand the term properly. I thought nihilism meant you cared about nothing, and that you were amoral. That you believed there was no difference between good and bad, or that sort of thing. Their definition of nihilism was just a rejection of authority in matters of belief. That's just scientific scepticism. I thought they were being a little young and silly.
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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