Orwell or Marx?

[bazarov]

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
We all know that famous quote from Orwell's animal farm, but I was really surprised when one of my friends quoted it He also said that is Marx's quote which would go All humans are equal, but some humans are more equal than others. He also said that Salinger changed humans to animals
Although I was sure it's Orwell's original, maybe it could be Marx, it would have sense. I've tried to google it or to look in Communist Manifesto, but I didn't find anything.
Orwell or Marx, the question is now???

I started this thread in who said that?, but there were no answers...

[mousemouse]

I don't believe that it could have been Marx even though I'm pretty sure he thought it. I've never heard that Salinger should be involved in any of this before, but ofcourse that doesn't mean that it is not true.

[bazarov]

I don't believe that it could have been Marx even though I'm pretty sure he thought it. I've never heard that Salinger should be involved in any of this before, but ofcourse that doesn't mean that it is not true.

No Salinger, I'm sure,

[The Atheist]

I'm with mouse^2 on this.

I know of no evidence that Marx ever said that, but I'm sure he realised it was a logical extension of "all humans are equal" as a basic tenet.

I'm also sure that, while not above borrowing ideas, Orwell was such a singular talent that he wouldn't have left himself open to using an exact phrase where he could be shown to have used Marx directly. You're talking about two of the most famous and distinguished authors in history. If Marx had uttered that phrase and Orwell merely copied it, it would have been general knowledge for many years.

I've heard this and other attempts to discredit Orwell before. Giants always have trouble with fleas.

Orwellian all the way. (see my sig)

[ennison]

That's Orwell making fun of Leninist/Stalinist Marxism. Marx had nothing to do with that quote but he might as well have had with his notion that the proletariat had to be led by an elite. Salinger? Your friend's been on the hooch pal!

[Adudaewen]

I'll have to agree, I cannot imagine Orwell willfully and so obviously plagerizing Marx. He's much to clever for that. Although I'm pretty sure that Marx would have agreed with the statment.

[bazarov]

OK, I was just checking...Sorry

[The Atheist]

No need to apologise - I applaud your coming and checking.

Lots of people take silly assertions at face value. That's how rumours spread.

Cheers.

[King of Frogs]

Marx writing something that succsinct (sorry about spelling)? I find that hard to believe - it sounds like pure Orwell to me. If only he could have written a version of Capital so the rest of us could understand what the hell Marx was trying to say.

Karl Marx - great thinker, incomprehensable writer.

[FrozenDuchess]

It hardly matters who said it, what matters is that it is true. Orwell demonstrates that Marxism leads to mediocrity...and that quote is one of his ways proving it... I suppose...

[Mrs. Dalloway]

No, Marx didn't say it. Marx said that "all men are equal" and Lenin also thought it when he started the revolution. Communism and Socialism is based in these words and it was what Lenin wanted to do with his revolution. These words are the "theory" of Communism. But Stalin changed to "all men are equal but others are more equal" because he changed the bases of Communism or Socialism... At least, it also can be aplied to Capitalism where of course "some people are more equal than other people". In that way, the CCCP of Stalin was really similar to Capitalism because all people aren't equal at all.