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Thread: Do Not Swear

  1. #31
    in a blue moon amuse's Avatar
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    prof, admin is under pressure from no one but himself to disallow swearing. and though it may be in context, he prefers that it not appear here; we respect that, because this is, after all, a Wonderful site.
    shh!!!
    the air and water have been here a long time, and they are telling stories.

  2. #32
    No ambition Prof's Avatar
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    2004.09.28 17:30(gmt+2)

    My dear Logos and Amuse,

    Of course I abide wholeheartedly by your writs; even more decidedly so by the ever necessary rules, and specifically the intent of the Administrator. The latter being the most pertinent.

    My "attitude" thus established, I, not for a moment, perceive that with the filtering of possible uncouth language do the Aministrator( whatever is his/ her name?) intent to stifle possible creativenes. Perusing said Administrator, and moderator's writs here, I am impressed with the helpful and friendly manner of such.

    Which allows me to once more, in good faith, present an instance where the word filters might possibly be somewhat too effective. It, of course pertains to the male member of the fowl species (the opposite of a hen). The **** crows us awake, can indicate a self-assured person(****y), pertains to readying a revolver(****), can be a manner of addressing someone ( "And why so glum this morning, old ****?"), be the name of an establishment ( The "**** and bull" pub), or be slang for a specific action ( He ****ed me a beamer).

    Of course the word can equally be utilised to express a vulgarity.

    The conundrum now being that an instance may arise where the use of the c-word (either as part off, or on its own) is an integral part of a writ. However, the flow and intent of a paragraph may well be nullified by not allowing such.

    Surely one would never, per example, have refused, say...Joseph Wambaugh, should he have wished to announce his novel "Black Marble" here? In it he introduces one to a cop whom would shame a pig! What a likeable character! Said cop is so disgusting that one can not wait for him to shock you once more. But estremely humane he is too.

    The question thus being: Is there not even a remote possibility to accomodate members whose intent is above board? For instance, can the poster not submit his/her writ in advance to a moderator? It need not be the complete writ, only the paragraph or two which is contentious.

    My experience is that sooner than later the authorities know eactly whom to accord pro forma permission. Please be assured that my intent is not to repeatedly flog a dead horse, and I shall willingly abide by whatever is decided.

    Lastly, I must esxpress my sincerest appreciation for the privilege of being allowed to utilise such a meaningful site.

    Prof.

  3. #33
    in a blue moon amuse's Avatar
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    it is probably my fault that the male rooster/overly egotistical person isn't allowed to be expressed as a four letter word. mea culpa...i seem to say this every month i think. i was vulgar at one point; vane had been misspelled as vein - (my mind went to weather vanes, otherwise known as, well) and i wrote the said word in a rather cheeky reply. and from the next day on, it was banned.

    oof...and poof.
    again, my apologies.
    shh!!!
    the air and water have been here a long time, and they are telling stories.

  4. #34
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Prudish...no. Considerate, yes.

    Hmmm.....me thinks that Joseph Wampaugh surely can and may express himself with as many vulgarities as he pleases. After all, he is not exactly churning out quality literature, but escape fiction. But this website strives for a little more quality, a little more verve than Joey aims for. Many users of this site are, or are being, well educated (not to mention fairly young) and need little use for substitutions where a more literate form of a word or expression may be used. Besides, anyone can utter curses, but it takes effort and ability to clearly communicate with the written word. Foul language only displays an inability to use a dictionary. I say save it for the street where it is more appreciated. And, yes, there is a time and place in literature where truth of reality may call for the use of colourful language. There is also a time and place for 'same' on the internet. This site is not one of them.
    Last edited by baddad; 09-29-2004 at 01:21 AM. Reason: punctuation

  5. #35
    in a blue moon amuse's Avatar
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    i can actually use a dictionary , and it was actually funny to reference "vein" (which was supposed to be "vane") in the manner i did. but that's old news.
    shh!!!
    the air and water have been here a long time, and they are telling stories.

  6. #36
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof
    The conundrum now being that an instance may arise where the use of the c-word (either as part off, or on its own) is an integral part of a writ. However, the flow and intent of a paragraph may well be nullified by not allowing such.

    Prof.
    Oh yah baby, the 'C' word!!! Covetous cornucopia! Copulate!Courtesan!Court! Curry, Cusp and cushy!! Curious cutless culling cursed customs. Customary cuttlefish's cute cutaneous cyst!! Cordially corny correspondence. Counter-revolution. Cow, crap, courage and convictions. And one of my particular favorites, contumacious!! Convinced??

  7. #37
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    *bows to baddad

    Thank you! I love your post!

  8. #38
    No ambition Prof's Avatar
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    2004.09.29 16:00(gmt+2)

    My dear Baddad,
    I most certainly appreciate, and equally laud your very considerate, thoroughly contemplated answer. However, it is preferable (and here I point the first finger at myself) that the utmost caution must be excercised not to let one's personal preferences interfere with one's sound judgement.

    A tad of sarcasm often is not amiss either, but usually only serves to inflame an otherwise amicable "disagreement." Of course I can attempt to disprove your statement that "Foul language only displays an inability to use a dictionary," and substitute Wambaugh for Mailer, but such deviations will only serve to inflame an otherwise friendly discourse.

    I have quite clearly, and repeatedly declared my unqualified support for the Administrator and moderators regarding the issue of uncouth language. However, I am sure that it is not deemed untoward to approach them regarding possible repercussions which might manifestate itself at a later stage. Surely we can accept that they welcome any approach regarding the site, provided such is performed in good faith, which is how I beg you to perceive my contribution.

    Of course those of an impressible nature (children) must always be considered, but the "educated" visitors will appreciate that a character always acts or speaks within his or milieu. Besides, when telling fairy stories to the young ones, it is debateble whether or not it is to the child's advantage to end the story with "Then the prince married the princess, and they lived happily ever after." What about the reality of setbacks?

    Equally so, is it kosher to present every character as a soft-speaking well behaved gentleman/lady?

    Please do not conclude that I am an advocate of debauching literature, far from it. I only proposed that it might be possible for someone of noble intent to be penalised for the greater good, and whether it be possible for such to be circumvented by means of pre-emptive submission of contentious writs to a moderator?

    Of course I respect your obvious determination in this regard, and should my enquiry be the cause of friction here, I would rather leave it be. Kindly accept that I am actually Afrikaans speaking, and might not always be able to express myself in such a manner as to compete with the very eloquent members here (like you!), which of course is no excuse.

    Sincerely your's,
    Prof.

  9. #39
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Being speaker of 3 languages myself, I tend to think that languages - especially English language - are rich enough in their vocabularies to enable us to carry on valuable and colourful discourses without resorting to offensive and less favourable/desirable/crude selections available.

    However, this merely being my own humble opinion on the issue, I hereby apologise to those who disagree or are offended by my statement.

    Yours Faithfully,

    Scheherazade
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  10. #40
    Moderator Logos's Avatar
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    Ok, well, Prof, you have some interesting ideas, especially regarding the possibility to submit potential posts to a moderator like me, or to Admin

    I don't know if he has time to deal with this, but I would be willing to discuss the idea with him if he thinks it's something he would like to see on his site.

    You have to understand though, this issue of `censorship' or `dictatorship' as some have come to call it has come up many many times before on this forum. People have had entire posts and topics locked censored or deleted. Most of the members who have been here for a few months have seen some sort of debate/discussion go on about it.

    There are still rules to adhere to, to maintain the integrity and `vision' of this site; that being online literature texts accessible to anyone, any age, any language or background. The forums here are a bonus, a place for discussion of said literature.

    Mods and Admin do not always see each and every post made here, some things go under our moderation radar, which is a good reason why such selective `bleeping out' of words is done automatically.

    The fact is, some words are not allowed here. That is a fact. However it does bring up this most subjective discussion and debate at times, sarcastic or not, where there are no definitive answers, everyone has an opinion about it, and while I'm happy to see discussion about it, and appreciate your input, it still may not change the facts.

    There are also many free online blog hosting websites where you can post your unvarnished writing, maybe this is something for you to consider too? Then you could post about it and invite your own form of discussion there?
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  11. #41
    No ambition Prof's Avatar
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    2004.09.29 21:00(gmt+2)

    My dear Scheherazade,
    Divulging English to be my second language was solely intended to explain possible misconceptions which might have arised by my rather inadequate presentation of exceptions to a rule which we all are in agreement upon.

    Of course the English language, consisting of approximately 280 000, compared to my Afrikaans' 90 000 words lends itself to discourses without the aid of undesirable words. That is a given, but unfortunately irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

    The crux being that an "undesirable" character will express him/herself in a manner most probably unacceptable to you. However, that does not indicate that such a character does not exist. Now, if such a character is central to a tale, must we deny
    the reality of such?

    Which bring us to the relate by Logos: I wholeheartedly support him in everything he strive to maintain, and is ever so thankful that he do listen, appreciate, and undertake to get clarity on the matter. Such indeed are those in a position of authority, whom exercise their discretion with compassion.

    I have stated my case, and willingly trust Logos to exercise his discretion in a fair manner. Whatever such decision might be, I shall support, even if such might not be quite what I have hoped for.

    Thus I thank you all for suffering me in a manner most becoming.

    Sincerely your's,
    Prof.

  12. #42
    in a blue moon amuse's Avatar
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    i think swearing can be effective as Prof says, when it is in character. or when used for effect/emphasis, rather like an actor on stage turning his back on the audience, which is almost never done.

    yes we can all say whatever needs to be said without swearing, and some of us can do a mighty fine job of using other words/phrases to greater effect. but in writing, it has its place. which is not to say i advocate it in real life.
    shh!!!
    the air and water have been here a long time, and they are telling stories.

  13. #43
    No ambition Prof's Avatar
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    2004.09.30 05:45 (gmt+2)

    My dear Amuse,
    What, have you now become a member of the literary Light Brigade? Only joking of course!

    In passing one might mention that some years ago, at one of our more renowned universities (Universiteit van die Oranje Vrystaat) a lady researcher undertook dedicated research about swearing! At the time I did read it, and revealing it most certainly was, in as much I understood it to indicate that perceptions future very pertinently.

    My pleasant visit to this thread served to underscore such, and I want to assure everyone who "took me to task!" that I am only the piano player, whom will happily play a tune everyone is comfortable with.

    Of course I do not concur 100% with my "detractors!" But, after all is said and done, they definitely are more equal than I am!

    Appreciatively your's,
    Prof.

  14. #44
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Hmmmm....... Didn't the Light Brigade (all 600 of them) get slaughtered in a canyon?

  15. #45
    in a blue moon amuse's Avatar
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    And what a GLORIOUS ****ing way to die.

    well, maybe i'll decline that subtitle, aye?

    btw, a long overdue "Welcome to the forum, Prof."
    shh!!!
    the air and water have been here a long time, and they are telling stories.

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