Our notions about Estella...

[shrek]

Here's the queston:
Explain why and where your feelings towards Estella vary considerably during the course of the novel...

What do you think?? Is there a considerable change in your feelings. I myself haven't read the complete novel but I think till where I've read, its not the whole incident but the small happenings in between conversations that provide hints about how Estella's been victimized and about the deep-set sensitivities in her nature as opposed to her apparent arrogant attitude.

[kev67]

Estella seems to change quite a bit between when she's a girl and when reappears as a young woman. As a girl, she seems very cruel, but as a young woman she does occasionally give enigmatic hints about how harsh her childhood had been. Possibly her cruelty to Pip is a result of this. She has lived in an unnatural home and was prepared for a horrible task. She's had to harden her heart. I expect if we could read her story, it would be a lot darker than even Pip's. I think Pip is sometimes a little harder on her than she deserves. Because of their bad start, he always thinks she is being mean to him, even on times when she's not. For example, on the two occasions she lets him kiss her cheek, he thinks she is still being cold to him. When she first uses his name instead of "boy", he thinks she does so manipulatively knowing he would treasure it. She never really leads Pip on. I think she thinks all her victims will soon get over her, because she seems to think Pip will get over her quite quickly when she refuses him. I think she's hard, haughty and capricious to the last degree, as Herbert Pocket says. She's also snobbish and superior. However, I think that sometimes she is being cruel to be kind, especially to Pip.

[kev67]

Early in the book, we know Estella is adopted but is being brought up as upper, or at least upper-middle class. I don't think she is quite upper class because she is not related to aristocracy. She and Miss Havisham are more like gentry, but very rich. Later we find out she's the illegimate daughter of a convict and murderess. You could not get much lower in social status than that. Her father is Magwitch, who turns out not to be too bad in the end, but her mother killed another woman out of jealousy. Jaggers saved her from the gallows and keeps her as his housekeeper. iirc this woman had threatened to kill Estella as a child because Magwitch was so fond of her. So there is a suggestion that part of Estella's behaviour is down to 'bad blood'.

[kev67]

It's odd about Estella that you would think, after the first few chapters in which she is so cruel to Pip, that you would hate her. But instead of thinking, "For God's sake Pip, stop wasting your time on her," you still hope Pip succeeds in landing her and warming her up a bit (well at least I did). She is still somehow a sympathetic character, not like Pip's sister who you don't really care about at all. I suppose you have more sympathy for her because you meet her as a child, and because you know she is being brought up in an unnatural and unhealthy household. It probably does not hurt that she is beautiful and classy, unlike Pip's sister who is just a horrible fishwife.

I read recently that Estella is considered one of Dickens' few convincing female characters. I have only read GE, but Dickens is reputed to be great at children but weak at women. That is odd because she is also often described as enigmatic. How she be convincing and also enigmatic?

[kev67]

A disturbing aspect about Estella, is not only is she cruel, she's so shallow. The second time Pip and Estella meet as children, Estella turns around to him and asks him if he thinks's she's insulting. When he replies that she's not so much so as she was, she hits him. The fact that she had been trying to be insulting, and that she could stop being insulting just by not being insulting hadn't seemed to have occurred to her. Years later when they meet as young adults, Pip is upset that Estella does not remember mistreating him, and does not even care that she does not remember. But she remembers the fight alright. Later when Pip is imploring her not to favour Bentley Drummle, her eyes widen as Pip warns her about Bentley's boorishness and how he has nothing to recommend him but money and aristocratic connections. Even in the Picadilly Street ending she seems a bit quick to make assumptions and not keen to spend much time catching up, although Pip had given up on her there. The only time she shows any great introspection is in the chapter where she falls out with Miss Havisham and explains how Miss Havisham has destroyed any human warmth in her. Generally speaking, Estella lacks empathy and imagination.

[mvrmoorthy]

It's odd about Estella that you would think, after the first few chapters in which she is so cruel to Pip, that you would hate her. But instead of thinking, "For God's sake Pip, stop wasting your time on her," you still hope Pip succeeds in landing her and warming her up a bit (well at least I did). She is still somehow a sympathetic character, not like Pip's sister who you don't really care about at all. I suppose you have more sympathy for her because you meet her as a child, and because you know she is being brought up in an unnatural and unhealthy household. It probably does not hurt that she is beautiful and classy, unlike Pip's sister who is just a horrible fishwife.

I read recently that Estella is considered one of Dickens' few convincing female characters. I have only read GE, but Dickens is reputed to be great at children but weak at women. That is odd because she is also often described as enigmatic. How she be convincing and also enigmatic?

Enigmatic refers to the nature of the character while convincing refers to the manner in which Dickens has presented the character. The first one is thematic and the second one is technical.