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Thread: The Taming of the Shrew: Induction I and II

  1. #31
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Janine,

    I think you are right that this kind of device was not used in any other Shakespeare play (if anyone can think of one, please let us know! ). Even though initially it seems puzzling and somewhat out of place, I enjoy reading the Inductions. They are rather funny and, in my opinion, goes well with some of play's themes (I will not go into this as I don't want to spoil it for those who have not read the play).

    The change in Sly's attitude and his willingness to go along with the 'deception' is very interesting and can be true for all of us under different circumstances, can it not?
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  2. #32
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
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    Yes - and the key word you used was "choice" - Sly chose to believe he was who he was told he was. This is an important idea in terms of what will happen later in the play.
    "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

  3. #33
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    well in the first place his speech is rough , i dont know the rythem changes I think somthing but if you say it ut loud in the beging his speech is harsher and sort of bitty ut towards the end it suddenly more flowwy

    if you get my meaning
    Yes, I agree with you. I see it too. I take it that in part I, he is completely drunk, and in part II, he has sobered up.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

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  4. #34
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post
    Janine,

    I think you are right that this kind of device was not used in any other Shakespeare play (if anyone can think of one, please let us know! ). Even though initially it seems puzzling and somewhat out of place, I enjoy reading the Inductions. They are rather funny and, in my opinion, goes well with some of play's themes (I will not go into this as I don't want to spoil it for those who have not read the play).

    The change in Sly's attitude and his willingness to go along with the 'deception' is very interesting and can be true for all of us under different circumstances, can it not?
    I don't think there is any other Shakespeare play with this frame. I remember reading that Shakespeare inhereted the story this way. I'll try to research it. I wish Petrarch was in this conversation.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  5. #35
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post
    The change in Sly's attitude and his willingness to go along with the 'deception' is very interesting and can be true for all of us under different circumstances, can it not?
    I thought he really believed it. Are you saying he's just going along?
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  6. #36
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Yes, I thought he believed it, also. I am in agreement with Virgil about that. I just think maybe one believes subconsciously, if it is a better scenerio. As he pointed out, when waking, maybe the past was his dream and this is reality; he seems to have reversed it to his advantage. His deception reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes". The Emperor wanted to believe he was wearing fine garments, so he believed it. His imagination took over, in a sense.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  7. #37
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    Christopher Sly is quite drunk as the induction begins. When he wakes is he still drunk? Is it the next day and he suffering a hangover? This seems an important detail to me. If he is still drunk, then the joke the hunters are playing on him might later just be a blurry memory, even a black out. The play will complete, the poor man will fall asleep and wake the next day totally dazed and wondering, "what the hey"!?
    If more time has elapsed and he is suffering a hangover, wakes, furry mouthed, in the strange new reality of being a wealthy lord with his un-named wife, well, he would certainly play along with the gag to see where it goes. Comfort for one suffering a hangover? Few would look that gift horse in the mouth. Especially if they will offer him a little hair of the dog, a cute little page wife, and a comical play.
    I don't get the sense of any cruelty in the ruse, just folks having fun.
    I looked in Wikepedia and they said inductions were also in Hamlet and Midsummer's Night Dream. I looked, but could not find them in the same format (at the very beginning) as Shrew.
    Enjoying everyone's comments immensely.

  8. #38
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    I just got a hold of the BBC dramatization of the The Shrew and they cut out the Inductions all together.

    Vesta Luna (cool name, BTW ), I would think he might be somewhat sober but disoriented when he wakes up. He certainly in the mood to be frisky with who he thinks is his wife.

    Welcome to lit net Vesta and please continue to join our conversation. I'm ready to go onto Act I. But I'll give my comments on that tomorrow.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  9. #39
    Lady of Smilies Nightshade's Avatar
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    Now that would be telling it, wouldnt it?
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    Which one Virg? The new modernised one what wasthe series called oh yes Shakespear re-told with shirley Henderson and rufus sewell??
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  10. #40
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    Which one Virg? The new modernised one what wasthe series called oh yes Shakespear re-told with shirley Henderson and rufus sewell??
    No. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980s the BBC put together dramatizations of all the Shakespeare plays. The Taming of the Shrew has a production date of 1980 and stars John Cleese as Petruchio. He's the only name i recognize but I'm not good with knowing actors.

    Here are a couple of web sites.
    http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/527447/index.html

    http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/fi...e_Shrew_(BBC)/

    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  11. #41
    Lady of Smilies Nightshade's Avatar
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    Cleese? oh that might be goood
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  12. #42
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    2 threads on Taming (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    Cleese? oh that might be goood
    Wow, I did not know there was a John Cleese version or a version with Rufus Sewell (who I have seen in many adaptations, especially Hardy and Elliot novels). I went to my local library and checked out the only version they have of the play - the one with Burton/Taylor, but it is far from my favorite film. I just thought it might refresh my memory on the plot and characters, since I read the play last year, or it may have been the year before. I will try to find time to re-read it as we go along.

    Question: why are there two separate threads on "Taming of the Shrew" ? This might confuse people.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  13. #43
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    I am on to Scene 1 & 2, but still very curious about this induction. It seems very dismissive on the BBC film maker's part to delete it. I can visualize all kinds of interesting and imaginative techniques. One would be the whole film made through the eyes of Chris, as the play truly is. It would begin with him narrating and setting up the scenario. They might add his commentaries through the play. At the end he might be Shakespeare himself, a grandchild of Katarina telling the tale, or oh heck, you get the picture. Can't you hear him, slurring his words, sounding a little or a lot foolish?
    I will have to find the Liz and Richard version. What a duo!
    Oh, yes, Virgil... I think your assumption about Chris's state of intoxication is correct. I really am beginning to like him as a vehicle into the play. Made no sense at first, but that is what digging into is all about.

  14. #44
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redzeppelin View Post
    Yes - and the key word you used was "choice" - Sly chose to believe he was who he was told he was. This is an important idea in terms of what will happen later in the play.
    You know, Red, I didn't catch on to what you meant when I first read this. Now I see.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  15. #45
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Question: why are there two separate threads on "Taming of the Shrew" ? This might confuse people.
    There is a different thread dedicated to the discussion of each act to make the discussion more concentrated. They are all clearly labeled so, hopefully, there won't be any confusion.

    There is also a general thread for more general aspects and questions.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


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