Shop Talk, My Short Story

[Virgil]

Hey I submitted a short story in the October elimination. I did not get great reviews based on the number of votes. [Thanks Jean-Babtiste for your vote; the other was my own.] But I would like to get feedback. Please feel free to be critical. I really would like to get your thoughts.

Here's the story again:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...2&d=1159702272

[Vada Dagon]

Hey Virgil,

This could be a very good story you are just not capturing the reader in your story. It is good to use imagery in your story but you should consider reading it and seeing if you enjoy it.

The problem with your imagery is that is too chopped and you tend to get tired of reading.

This is the beginning of your story
"They walk into the shop. Reno carries a notebook, Moss carries a metal part. They step around a puddle, each circles around the opposite side, and Reno opens the inner door of the anteroom. Moss walks in ahead, goes in three quick steps, suddenly stops and waits for Reno. When Reno catches up, Moss sticks out the metal part. “Hold this a second.” Reno slides the notebook under his upper arm and takes the part, hefty in his hand. Moss straightens his tie. The tie is colorful, stripes in the form of serpents, alternating colors of green, red, and yellow on a purple background. Reno hands the part back to Moss and makes a face at the garish tie. Moss acknowledges the look with a return look of lifting eyebrows."

How about this (although mine is not perfect either)

They ackwardly negotiate a puddle on their way into the shop. A machine shop that is. Moss almost drops his notebook when Reno shoves him a metal object to adjust his brightly colored tie.

Keep working on your story. There is a story there but you have to make it interesting to want to read. Read some books that you enjoy reading and see how they write and you'll get an idea of what you want to do.

[Virgil]

Hey Virgil,

This could be a very good story you are just not capturing the reader in your story. It is good to use imagery in your story but you should consider reading it and seeing if you enjoy it.

The problem with your imagery is that is too chopped and you tend to get tired of reading.

This is the beginning of your story
"They walk into the shop. Reno carries a notebook, Moss carries a metal part. They step around a puddle, each circles around the opposite side, and Reno opens the inner door of the anteroom. Moss walks in ahead, goes in three quick steps, suddenly stops and waits for Reno. When Reno catches up, Moss sticks out the metal part. “Hold this a second.” Reno slides the notebook under his upper arm and takes the part, hefty in his hand. Moss straightens his tie. The tie is colorful, stripes in the form of serpents, alternating colors of green, red, and yellow on a purple background. Reno hands the part back to Moss and makes a face at the garish tie. Moss acknowledges the look with a return look of lifting eyebrows."

How about this (although mine is not perfect either)

They ackwardly negotiate a puddle on their way into the shop. A machine shop that is. Moss almost drops his notebook when Reno shoves him a metal object to adjust his brightly colored tie.

Keep working on your story. There is a story there but you have to make it interesting to want to read. Read some books that you enjoy reading and see how they write and you'll get an idea of what you want to do.

Thank you for your comments and the time it took to read the story. I appreciate it. I think the problem some may have is the shift in point of view mid way, from the two guys walking in to Baldini. Did you have a problem with that, or was it smooth enough to feel natural?

I notice you're in Iraq. Keep safe, and let me tell you I am so proud of the work you guys are doing and of your courage.

[Vada Dagon]

Hey Virgil,

The problem with the story is not the story itself but that it doesn't transition from one point to another. Rather it transitions in a manner that is not very enjoyable to read.
Short sentences are good, in fact many things are good. Jumping thought, mid-sentence transitions are good but they have to be done in a certain way.
For example
Moss and Reno nervous enter the shop. Puddle, rain, jump. No one around. Damn! Empty shop. A call made which echo answered. A whirring sound from above; is that a man?

These are short sentences which are interrelated but they flow in a manner that seem to flow and yet still give you the sense that there is something jittery or choppy.

[Virgil]

Hey Virgil,

The problem with the story is not the story itself but that it doesn't transition from one point to another. Rather it transitions in a manner that is not very enjoyable to read.
Short sentences are good, in fact many things are good. Jumping thought, mid-sentence transitions are good but they have to be done in a certain way.
For example
Moss and Reno nervous enter the shop. Puddle, rain, jump. No one around. Damn! Empty shop. A call made which echo answered. A whirring sound from above; is that a man?

These are short sentences which are interrelated but they flow in a manner that seem to flow and yet still give you the sense that there is something jittery or choppy.

OK, thanks.

[cuppajoe_9]

It's a good plot, but I agree that the choppy sentences are distracting, particularly in the begining (and are rather surprising, actually, coming from a Faulkner-over-Hemingway kind of a guy). They work best when there are some longer, more elegant sentences floating around for contrast, particularly in the semi-stream-of-consciousness passages where Baldini is conversing with his father in his head.
I think, if possible, you should make the scene with the shears a bit more of a big deal.
On the whole, however, I like the plot, I like Baldini, a like the neurosis and I like the setting. I just think the prose could be a bit neater.

[Virgil]

It's a good plot, but I agree that the choppy sentences are distracting, particularly in the begining (and are rather surprising, actually, coming from a Faulkner-over-Hemingway kind of a guy). They work best when there are some longer, more elegant sentences floating around for contrast, particularly in the semi-stream-of-consciousness passages where Baldini is conversing with his father in his head.
I think, if possible, you should make the scene with the shears a bit more of a big deal.
On the whole, however, I like the plot, I like Baldini, a like the neurosis and I like the setting. I just think the prose could be a bit neater.

Thank you Joe. I do want good critical comments.

[Petrarch's Love]

First, there was a lot about this story I really liked. I thought the dialogue sounded really natural and I thought having his father's voice in his head was well integrated into the story and felt emotionally real (which is a good thing, and not always easy to pull off).

I agree with what others have said about some of the sentences seeming too clipped. I also think the transitions could flow a little better. One way to improve this is to concentrate on establishing a particular and memorable image or phrase toward the end of one segment and then re-introducing that same image or word choice, but in a new context in the following segment. You see this in movies all the time. The director does a close-up on a certain object (an old baseball in a case) and then cuts to the same object in either the past or future (the same baseball in a pitcher's hand as he's about to throw it to Joe DiMaggio) as a way of transitioning from one point of view (present day DiMaggio fan) to another (guy in '41 trying to strike out DiMaggio). For example, in your biggest shift from the point of view of Moss and Reno to that of Baldini, you focus toward the end of the Moss and Reno sectioin on a description of Baldini's ponytail. If you started the next paragraph with Baldini catching a glimpse of himself and his ponytail in the bathroom mirror before he turns to use the urinal, I think it might make it a smoother transition. The reader would have an image to latch on to that's already been introduced to them, so there wouldn't be the chance of an akward break in continuity, and it would cue the reader that there's a shift going on from how others are seeing Baldini to how he sees himself. Just a suggestion, of course. As I say, overall I thought it was pretty well done.

[Virgil]

Thank you Petrarch. I wish I had gotten more than one vote.

[ShoutGrace]

Alright Virgil, I reluctantly consent to enter in my comments (as I doubt they will help you, seeing as how I am woefully underqualified as far as criticism and recommendation are concerned).


The kinds of things that I most noticed during my first reading were topical, having to do with tenses, sentence structure, etc. So I’ll post a few of those and hopefully you can tell me if I’m reading them incorrectly or not.

The step past the anteroom door leads into the open area of the machine shop. Almost the size of half a football field. Ceiling up about three stories.

For these last two sentences, it feels as if something is missing . . . they are cut, and lack some modifiers somewhere, i.e. “It ‘was’ (is) almost the size of half a football field. The ceiling ‘stretched’ (stretches) up about three stories.”

The very next sentence, your tense is very much in the present:

The volume of the space alters the sound of the footsteps, gives it a slight echo.

The footsteps are not “giving” an echo, there isn't any “gave,” they “give” an echo here. There were a couple of times in the story when the tense wasn’t maintained, but I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not.

BTW, should the above sentence have a “them” in place of your “it?” There are multiple footsteps, not just one.

As for tenses, here:

As they approached it, they hear voices of workmen chattering and laughing.

Seems like it should be “approach.” Am I wrong?

And again here:

He washed his hands vigorously trying to take the machine grease off the tops of his fingers. Then he slaps the hand dryer and shakes his hands underneath it.

The tenses are varying, though I can’t be sure if this is purposeful or not.

I agree with cuppajoe_9 here:

I think, if possible, you should make the scene with the shears a bit more of a big deal.

That section was just bumpy and anticlimactic – perhaps it had to do with the tense you'd set for yourself? I'm not even sure if it was the “climax” - help!

With a swift motion Baldini thrusts the shears and snips the tie at the base of the knot. O’Brien and Reno pull back Moss, who is cussing wildly. Baldini is left with the tie strips dangling in one hand, the shears in the other, and his pony tail bouncing with every jerk of his laughing head.

Then the cut to Baldini’s apartment. I said to myself, “What? Ok then . . .”

[Virgil]

Alright Virgil, I reluctantly consent to enter in my comments (as I doubt they will help you, seeing as how I am woefully underqualified as far as criticism and recommendation are concerned).

Hahaha. I welcome all comments, no matter what their qualification.

For these last two sentences, it feels as if something is missing . . . they are cut, and lack some modifiers somewhere, i.e. “It ‘was’ (is) almost the size of half a football field. The ceiling ‘stretched’ (stretches) up about three stories.”

They lack verbs and here it was done intentionally. I don't find it problematic. It was the style I was after.

The footsteps are not “giving” an echo, there isn't any “gave,” they “give” an echo here. There were a couple of times in the story when the tense wasn’t maintained, but I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not.

You think that's a dangling modifier? I feels like "gives" refers to to footsteps and "it" refers to space. We probably need an expert here to resolve this. I'll ask Petrarch.

BTW, should the above sentence have a “them” in place of your “it?” There are multiple footsteps, not just one.

Yes, I think you're right here.


As for tenses, here:

Seems like it should be “approach.” Am I wrong?

And again here:

The tenses are varying, though I can’t be sure if this is purposeful or not.

I agree with cuppajoe_9 here:

You are definitely correct here. All tenses should have been in present. It's easy to slip up. I'm not good at editing. Actually I asked two others to look over the grammar and they both missed those.

That section was just bumpy and anticlimactic – perhaps it had to do with the tense you'd set for yourself? I'm not even sure if it was the “climax” - help!

Then the cut to Baldini’s apartment. I said to myself, “What? Ok then . . .

That was not the climax of the entire story, just the initial conflict. The climax, if i got it correctly done, was feeling of the loss of his mother at the end.

[miss tenderness]

I agree with the points others stated above. What really caught my attention is Virg's high ability of setting the scenes and giving visual description of the characters, esp. Baldini, all through my reading of the story there was a certain image of Baldini in my mind based on the description Virg gave, his body, his ponytail, his face and his temper, I can see him talking …fighting in a moving picture. The imagination is effectively worked out. I like how you employed the flashbacks to serve the plot of the story. They make the story more interesting and thought provoking.

Had good time reading it, looking forward to other coming stories.

[TEND]

Is there going to be a revised version? I have not read your story yet Virg, but I wish too and I will read the one here unless you're planning to show us an updated version. Or are you looking for criticism more to be aware when writing your next piece?

[Virgil]

Is there going to be a revised version? I have not read your story yet Virg, but I wish too and I will read the one here unless you're planning to show us an updated version. Or are you looking for criticism more to be aware when writing your next piece?

Not planning yet Tend. I wanted to give about six months or so to let me kind of forget about it for now and then go back to it. I would be more objective then.

Thanks Miss T.

[Jean-Baptiste]

You're welcome for the vote, Virgil. I did that because I was incredibly impressed with the story. I thought that it was a brilliant portrayal of one of the myriad variations of human emotion.

I liked the opening scene very much. I appreciated the stilted nature of the description.

The transition into the second half of the story was very well executed. There is such a realistic change of mood, not only for the early characters, but a palpable one for the characters in the breakroom as well. The scene represented for me an ultimate clashing of two very distinct sets of emotion.

The motivations of this character, Baldini, are very well developed, although this development comes to fruition only at the end of the story. This, however, does not lend itself to any sort of detriment.

Listen, Virgil, I'll end there because this is running the risk of turning into a tirade of picking out every bit of this story and affirming my appreciation for it. I know that it's not very helpful to say that I simply liked it--all of it--but I can't find anything that I would suggest changing.

In any case, thanks for sharing your story with us. Again, I was very impressed.