Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 62

Thread: Fairytales vs. reality..which would you choose?!

  1. #1
    dum spiro, spero Nossa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Egypt
    Posts
    1,168
    Blog Entries
    50

    Fairytales vs. reality..which would you choose?!

    Okay..
    I'm studying Plato's The Republic...in my Literary Criticism course this term..
    And some parts in it got me wondering about certain things..
    Like what Plato said about Fables..and Fairytales..and them being bad influence on the new generations...yes he meant the poets' stories about Gods and Goddesses fighting and all...and yes he refused the stories about heros and idols and picturing them in a negative way...
    But coming to think about it...
    I think that this can apply to nowadays...from anther prospective though...that is,
    should we tell our kids, nowadays, fairytales which end with happy endings and all...or should we shock them with a reality, they'll know sooner or later?!
    Don't you think that making our little new generations ready for what's coming ahead, and making them familiar with what's happening in the world is better for them, than telling them stories, which , once they grow up, they'll know it's a mere lie,if I might say, and it was pointless?
    Do you consider not allowing kids to see news, or not allowing them to watch certain things on tv, do you consider this a protective precaution?!
    And what exactly is it protecting them from?!
    is it protecting them from things...that they'll sure face someday?!
    I know that Plato didn't mean any of this in his dialogues..
    But this was just a question that popped to my head..
    I'm the patron saint of the denial,
    With an angel face and a taste for suicidal.

  2. #2
    ღ Déjà vu ღ miss tenderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    where angels happily tread
    Posts
    2,659
    Nossa, when we were kids we enjoyed these fairytales, however, it did not have a negative effect on us now as a grown up. I'm afraid that the coming generation is going to witness a real disastrous life more that ours. So, they have the right to live the innocence and the dreams of their age. Let these lil poor kids enjoy their childhood as much as possible and forget all this theories! Imagination is a large part of childhood, isn't it? So why preventing them from one specialty of their age.

  3. #3
    dum spiro, spero Nossa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Egypt
    Posts
    1,168
    Blog Entries
    50
    I know what you say..and totally understand it..
    It's just that living in this world, requires a certain level of awareness...which even kids have, like it or not...or that's at least what I see now..
    So yes, kids should have thier innocence..but now and in this world..they don't exaclty completely have it...meaning that, they know when they're 6 what I knew when I was 15 or so...they understand more things about the world..
    It's to me the same as telling a grown up a fairytale...he's not gonna find it interesting..same as kids now..
    Am I making sense here? lol
    I'm the patron saint of the denial,
    With an angel face and a taste for suicidal.

  4. #4
    ღ Déjà vu ღ miss tenderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    where angels happily tread
    Posts
    2,659
    I know what u are saying,Nossa, it's so real.

    I mean my little sister knows a graet deal about everything, but thankfully,she still enjoys the cartoons and fairytale story. Though I found her once reading The Da Vinci Code!so u're right.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,099

    fairy tales are horror stories

    Witch in woods tries to cook lost children. Children roast old witch instead.

    Girl in red cloak disembowels wolf to free granny.

    Soft-hearted maid is kept as indentured 'slave' by warty-nosed step-sisters.

    Woodsman is instructed by beautiful evil dominatrix to chop up sweet-natured competitor and make it look like accident.

    Freedom-loving little pigs are victimised by slobbering wild dog. They boil him.


    Gentle tales. I think not. Stephen King eat yer heart out.

  6. #6
    ღ Déjà vu ღ miss tenderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    where angels happily tread
    Posts
    2,659
    very frightenning,Enn.
    Your post (above) speaks the crazy stuff that are represented for our poor kids, horror horror!!

  7. #7
    dreamer genoveva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    592
    I'm not familiar with Plato's reference to fables. Maybe you could post a quote. But I have been studying fairytales lately and can share that originally they were not meant for children! They were stories for adults. As the ages went by and we became more conservative (i.e. the Victorian Age) it went out of fashion for adults to take pleasure in these tales. Instead, they became toned down for children. Now we find fairytales (mostly the Grimm Brothers versions) being enjoyed by children; and at the same time, find your more "politically correct" parents not wanting their children to read/hear them. One view (probably inspired by Bruno Betelheim) is that these tales act in a homeopathic nature. For example, children can experience fear by listening to these fairytales, but they can experience it in a safe way. The story (usually) turns out okay, and well, it's just a story anyway; it's not reality. Interesting stuff...
    "I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    indonesia
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by Nossa View Post
    should we tell our kids, nowadays, fairytales which end with happy endings and all...or should we shock them with a reality, they'll know sooner or later?!
    Don't you think that making our little new generations ready for what's coming ahead, and making them familiar with what's happening in the world is better for them, than telling them stories, which , once they grow up, they'll know it's a mere lie,if I might say, and it was pointless?
    Do you consider not allowing kids to see news, or not allowing them to watch certain things on tv, do you consider this a protective precaution?!
    And what exactly is it protecting them from?!
    is it protecting them from things...that they'll sure face someday?!
    BUt, isn't fairy tales symbolizing reality? There are the good guys, the bad guys, the consequences of bad or good deeds, the sufferings/adventures one must go through before achieving happiness, etc. Why symbolizing? Why not directly tell the real thing? Well, that's art.

  9. #9
    ANGRY, YOUNG, POOR Eagleheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    150
    To invent fables about a world "other" than this one has no meaning at all, unless an instinct of slander, detraction and suspicion against life has gained the upper hand in us: in that case, we avenge ourselves against life with a phantasmagoria of "another", a "better" life...

    Don't be mad at me...Nietzsche has said that.../if he could I am sure he would be gloating/
    Se puede matar el hombre
    Pero no mataran la forma
    En que se alegraba su alma
    Cuando souaba ser libre
    ......
    They can kill a man/but they cannot kill the way /his soul rejoices/when it dreams/that it is free
    ....
    A folklore song from Venecuela

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,099

    'Fairy' Tales

    Ah yes I miss tenderness. Seriously the fairy tales are not originally gentle stories for children to fall asleep to (unless you wanted them to have nightmares) but like the Scots ballads they are visceral stories of the most basic human fears, wishes and hatreds.

  11. #11
    Cur etiam hic es? Redzeppelin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Infinity and Beyond
    Posts
    2,043

    The Mythic Imagination

    Plato's distrust of poets in The Republic is up for debate in terms of whether or not Socrates (Plato's mouthpiece) was speaking ironically or not. Plato's dialogues involve Socrates' examination of various arguments and positions by other speakers, and Socrates is famous for his use of irony in speaking (we call any use of feigned ignorance "Socratic Irony" because Socrates use of this technique in order to allow his opponent to explain/define his position). As such, it is not necessarily definite that Plato disliked poets (the makers of "fables and fairytales"). As well, Plato's restriction of "fables" and such was in reference to the training of the "guardians" (a sort of military force for the perfect republic) - not necessarily the general public.

    Mythic writing (fairy tales, legends, folktales and such) points readers to a larger frame of reference, and - ultimately - to a clearer picture of reality because they tell stories about human nature and human psychology. The fact that they are read less and less by children these days (in favor of vacuous, politically correct stories that have an ideological agenda) shows up in the "smaller" stories people live, instead of the "larger" narratives our lives are meant to be. Kids are missing something by losing these stories because they connect us to a deeper past, a more "real" reality that exists beyond socially constructed stories whose aim is more to indoctrinate than to induct the child into a bigger realization of the world.

  12. #12
    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a perpetually transitional state.
    Posts
    7,102
    We must remember that, although kids are getting more and more knowledgable, there is still an extent to which you can expose them. I will agree those fairytales can send some pretty horrific messages. But for most 4 or 5 year olds black and white scenarios of complete bad vs complete good is essentially their range of understanding. I do think plots could be altered slightly to send fewer subliminal messages lined with sexism and political bias, perhaps Franny Feminist meets Misogynist Maxwell? We have to be wary that Jung and Plato might be a bit much before adolescence. I have seen the rare childrens book that promotes a deeper, more analytical view of the world. Best example i can think of now would be Lemony Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. But even those are for kids more towards the ages 11-13. I think the best way to read fairytales is to talk them over with little children. When i babysat a year ago I used to read to 4-6 year olds then ask them questions like "What do you think about this character? If you were Hansel and Gretel would you do the same thing?" And they actually responded and enjoyed simply talking about it. Same thing applies in the adult world of reading. Sure, we all have our times of reading junk, but what matters is that we can identify it as junk.
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

  13. #13
    The Black Rabbit of Inle alhara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    home
    Posts
    204
    "or should we shock them with a reality, they'll know sooner or later?!"


    thats not exactely true. i teach art class to children and when i got started i though the same thing but it just doesn´t work that way with kids. there is a reason you learn the colors in pre-k and freud in high school. one these things have to build upon each other and two there is a wall there. children are despite all ther imagination and creativity literal beings. if you show them how to do something they will, to the best of there ablity, do exactley that, no expansion. I stoped bringing examples to my art class because the kids just copied it. You have to sit with them and FORCE them to think for them selves, their brains and not fully wired yet, they are sad sometimes happy sometime and they get some concept of morality but for the most part its "I did it cause mommy told me to" end of explanation. Fairtales are safe because they don´t exist other wise all your friendly neigborhood wolves Would be broild or disimbowled, thats why though fairtaes are geting softer you keep the wolf the dragon or the knight they are safe in the realm of unreality from the danger of little children.

    maybe they do know what you know at 15 but they don´t understand it in the same way. facts are fine ideas are dangerously misunderstood by kids in my experiance.
    Last edited by alhara; 12-04-2006 at 05:23 AM.
    deus ex machina

  14. #14
    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a perpetually transitional state.
    Posts
    7,102
    completely agree with you there alhara..its kinda what i was trying to get at with my last post, but you put it in a much better way. Thanks!
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

  15. #15
    The Black Rabbit of Inle alhara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    home
    Posts
    204
    thanks for the compliment drama your post put it well but froma diffrnet point of view babysitter vs. teacher. It´s nice to know people read what you write
    deus ex machina

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Appearance vs. Reality
    By mitch in forum The Hunchback of Notre Dame
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-17-2007, 08:07 PM
  2. distinction between ideal and reality
    By apple jiang in forum Philosophical Literature
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-16-2007, 01:22 PM
  3. Reality Is Overrated
    By starrwriter in forum General Writing
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-22-2005, 10:26 AM
  4. I need Help Again
    By Maljackson in forum General Writing
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-21-2005, 02:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •