Summer Reading: 'East of Eden' by Steinbeck

[Scheherazade]

I have finally got some time to go back and read the comments from the beginning. I am sorry if I end up repeating some of the things which are said in later posts.

Was anybody else thrilled that Cathy finally got beat up?

I cannot say I was happy when Cathy got beaten up because (well, I didn't expect her to die) I thought she would come back with a vengeance and harm more people (in both her father's case and Mr Edward's). It only helped firing her up, I think.

Cathy is horrid. Steinbeck calls her a 'monster' but also tries to lessen her own liability, I think:

"Monsters are variations from the accepted normal to a greater or less degree. You must not forget that a monster is only a variation, and that to a monster the norm is monstrous. It is my belief that Cathy Ames was born with the tendencies, or lack of them, which drove and forced her all her life."

I am not sure if Steinbeck is trying to lessen her liability but, I felt, he is offering another angle for us to look at her.

I think that this is bourne out explicitly in the narrator's discourse in chapter 34 (a heavy, quick chapter - I liked how Steinbeck interspersed these little homilies in between the actual plot developments; I have also concluded that they contain a large portion of the meaning and authorial intent to be found in the book)

Chapter 34 is one of the best ones in the book I think and Steinbeck often uses this method in his book; he takes a little breaks from the story line and discusses different aspects with his readers. Sometimes they seem off-topic but they always fit in nicely at the end.

"timshel" didn't have much effect on us. It seemed a bit like breaking through an open door to us

I think 'timshel' concept is interesting in the sense that people do have choice; they can determine their actions (as opposed to 'fate'). However, how does this fit in with the notion Steinbeck introduces at the very beginning of the book that some people are born lacking something? Does that mean that they don't have choice? Or even they have a choice?

By putting the reader in the position of monster, Steinbeck not only discusses the role of perception, but also lays a foundation for the reader: we can dislike Cathy, but we cannot condemn her for not possessing what we have: a conscience. She acts according to her nature, which is different from us and monstrous to us, but we the reader would be the same to her.

I agree with this; I believe Steinbeck does want us to look at 'good and evil' from a different perspective; rather than passing on judgement quickly, we need to take a moment and try to understand why that person is behaving in a certain way.

At this point, I would like to bring up something. Thinking about the story of Adam and Eve and how they were expelled from Heaven, is it possible to find a connection here? Eve, owing to her rebellious and curious nature, caused them lose their place in Heaven and is considered as the 'bad' one but, following Steinbeck's comments on 'monsters', is it possible to absolve her of her mistake/sin?

And bringing in the 'timshel' again here, should we say 'hey, she had the choice' or should we say 'some people do not have the choice because of the way they are created?' (since it is God himself who gives us our qualities...)

[papayahed]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book. I find myself not wanting to read any further, not that the books stinks but I know trouble is coming for the characters...

[Hyacinth Girl]

dum de, dum de, dum de dum de dum de duuuuum! Gotta love Steinbeck.

In answer to Scher's question of timshel in light of Cathy's total lack of conscience, I think there are two ways to look at it:
1) Kathy is the "Satan" figure, a flat character, and thus had no choice, because the devil is the devil. Of course, you can play devil's advocate (he he he, aren't I clever) and say that even Lucifer had a choice whether or not to challenge God prior to his being cast out of heaven.
2) Kathy has the power to choose, and does so. Throughout the novel, she gets inklings that something is wrong with her, but she makes the choice to shrug them off and instead posits everyone else as messed up - that is a core difference between her and her son. He fights against it, she ignores it.

[Jay]

@ Papaya: I wouldn'tbe able not knowing how it ended.

[Scheherazade]

In answer to Scher's question of timshel in light of Cathy's total lack of conscience, I think there are two ways to look at it:

Hello HG,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that we could look at it from those angles (that is what I was trying to say in my previous post when I said 'should we say 'hey, she had the choice' or should we say 'some people do not have the choice because of the way they are created?' (since it is God himself who gives us our qualities...)'); however, I am wondering what your personal opinions on this are...

Papaya> Even if you don't have the time now, please do finish this book sometime...

[Pensive]

Wow, ten people liked it very much, and would strongly recommend it.

[papayahed]

@ Papaya: I wouldn'tbe able not knowing how it ended.

Oh, I read the last page, I know how it ends. I just don't want to see it happen.

[Jay]

Read with your eyes closed then?

I know, not funny, bite me

Still, even knowing the immediate ending... I'd like to know what exactly happened. I'm nosy like that

[Hyacinth Girl]

Scher - I think that Cathy had a choice. She had the impression that she was lacking in something several times, but at every turn, she did not explore that avenue, but twisted the question around and chose to believe the rest of the world lacked something instead. The emphasis on her lack that was created by Steinbeck is, I believe, a rhetorical device. Without his protests that Cathy was not a monster, I'm sure everyone would throw the book down in disgust or despair.

[papayahed]

I'm sure everyone would throw the book down in disgust or despair.

hmmmm... I think I did that.

[papayahed]

Ok, see!!! I started reading again and what happens???? Both Tom and Dessie????

[Jay]

It's ok, Papaya, it's not your fault

[papayahed]

It's ok, Papaya, it's not your fault

If I would have stopped reading it never would have happened!!!!


I finished the book. How do the Hamiltons fit into the whole Cane and Abel scenario?

[papayahed]

And does anybody else think that while Cathy seemed to be missing something, Cal seemed to be a regular human with certain flaws? (not exactly how I wanted to word it but it will have to do for now)

[Scheherazade]

And does anybody else think that while Cathy seemed to be missing something, Cal seemed to be a regular human with certain flaws? (not exactly how I wanted to word it but it will have to do for now)

I agree with you, Papaya, which is why I find the ending a little harsh. I really wish the Father could forgive him.