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Thread: Questions about Islam

  1. #1
    What once was lost... rufioag's Avatar
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    Questions about Islam

    Please, if anyone could answer my question that was posted in the other thread please do so here since the other one was closed. I find it hard to believe that this forum constantly wants people to stay on topic but when you say lets get back on topic, then they say you cant handle a debate.

    This is the storyline from the other post I had, Please If you have any understanding of Islam I ask you to clarify. If you have no understanding of Islam and just want to banter go ahead even if its off topic becuase that is allowed but I will defend my position to attempt to keep this thread on topic.

    Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
    In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah.
    This Hubal was a moon god.
    One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world: About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
    The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as "al-ilah".
    "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
    There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah".
    When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah".
    Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.

    I attempt with all sincerity not to disrespect anyones beliefs as is suppose to be done this forum. If a question is disrespectful, then I accept that and will attempt to refute what has been asked. But if a question is an attempt to understand, that is another story and should be looked in upon. Unless it is the attempt of this forum that we should all come in with concieved notions and not be allowed to state them or have them altered if they are untrue.
    Last edited by rufioag; 05-05-2006 at 02:38 PM.
    No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.

  2. #2
    Registered User paledancer's Avatar
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    I don't know what did you ask, I'didn't catch that but I am ıslam and I can give you an answer as well as I can

  3. #3
    What once was lost... rufioag's Avatar
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    ty, my question is in refrence to that long paragraph. Is it true? I found it on a website and am wondering if the origins of the name Allah are associated to the Moon God that was worshipped before Muhammed. And if so, does this affect the message that Muhammed reported?
    No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.

  4. #4
    Registered User paledancer's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but I've never heard something about this. all I've learnt until today is Koran was told by the Archangel Gabriel day by day to Muhammed to publish the religion (sorry if I've made grammar mistakes)

  5. #5
    What once was lost... rufioag's Avatar
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    No no apologies, I have also never heard of it until today and just thought Id ask, But i did not know that about Islam either, Thank you for the responce on the Issue.
    No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.

  6. #6
    Registered User paledancer's Avatar
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    I really wish I could give you a clear answer, can you tell me the website, I'm wondering too

  7. #7
    What once was lost... rufioag's Avatar
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    That is where I got the story line from.
    http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

    This is another site that claims the same thing.
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

    Now Im not saying that I believe this or not, But these are the sources of the discussion. I am wondering the answer. Maybe the views are slanted becuase both come from sites that are obviously Christian biased which may draw quick conclusions.
    No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.

  8. #8
    Registered User paledancer's Avatar
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    I understand, it's normal that people wonders about religion, I think a lot about it, if there's any questions about islam I can answer, it's better that people asks someone thank you for the adresses

  9. #9
    Registered User Shield&Sword's Avatar
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    I saw ur thread about Islam and about the moon thing. I am sorry it was closed.
    I just want to say that u must take from authentic resources, and to know religioun, u must read thier books.
    We believe that Ismael pbuh son of Abraham pbuh they both built Kaba in mecca, and there was the worship of one God ALLAH, God of Adam Moses Jesus and Muhammed.
    Amr Bin Luhay the chief of tribe Khaza'a is the first one who made enter stones to the arabic island, Amr Bin Luhay was an important person, he was rich and helped the poor and was religious, people respected him alot listen to what he say. Once when he was in Sham area (Jordan palastine syria and this area) he saw a nation called in arabic Amaleeq (i dont know in english) praying to stones, he asked them and they said these are our gods, he liked the idea and thoughts its good, coz Sham is the source of prophets and took with him Hubal ( statue) to the Mecca and people accepted what he askedthem and then all Hijaz (arabic island followed Mecca (it was the center of worship).
    Hubal was made from red A'qeq ( i think jewels in english) on form of human with a broken hand, so arabs made a golden hand for him, and was the greatest for them, also they took statue called Menah and was for Hatheel and Khuza'a tribes, and Allat in Taef city and was for Thaqeef tribe and Uzzah was for Quraish and Bani kenanah tribes.
    And also Amr knew the location of the Noah tribe statues and took thm out and gave them to different tribes:
    Statue Wad as for Kalb(tribe near Iraq), Suaa' was for hatheel, Iaghooth was for Bani Ghutaif, Iao'oq was for Hamadan (tribe in Yemen), Khiwan was for Hemiar.And alot of other stones arabs took because of Amr, so the source of Hubal was Sham not arabic Island. The names of statues were names of good persons lived long time ago and people made statues for them and then people after them became to worship them, Wad and Soa' and others perhaps was names of person, Allatt is from the arabic verb Ialott, its an action made (i think mooving the bread in circle form, dont remember well) when some one make the bread, and as i remember they made a statue named such thing from a place where a man ialott the bread. And so on with names.
    They began to worship stones to be more close to Allah- Surah 39 verse 3 "Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors others than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful."
    Allah always existed as name for God, and 2000 b.c people worshipped Allah (the only one God, God of Abraham pbuh) this worship remained untle Amr came and made his black act.
    Arabs who worshipped stones were called Moshrek, its an arabic word that mean made a partner, because they believed in Allah but they made partners for him, see the verse above.
    "If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to His Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah." How are they then deluded away (from the truth)?" Surah 29 verse 61, they admit Allah created things but they made partners for him.
    Muhammed when he entered Meccah after his religioun was spread, he went to Kaba and found alot of statues inside Kaba, and there was a statue on form of Abraham and was Iastaqsem Bilazlam (a type of lottery), and prophet pbuh said words which mean Abraham wasnt making such thing and destroyed all statues. As u see arabs knew Abraham and Ismael, but they lost the path so Allah sent his last massenger pbuh to complete the whole massege.
    About worshiping moon u will find these things only in sites even i see they are christian sites no wonder what they wrote, my advice is to read Holy Quran and Books of Sunnah (sayings of Prophet pbuh), the authenticated sayings.
    Reading Muhammed pbuh teaching and the Holy Quran u will find the pure monothism, no pagan no statues, u read and judge.
    About the name Allah get in this site (christian site) and u will find the different words in aramic (language of Jesus pbuh) and listen to how they pronounce the name Allah which mean GOD even in aramic it existed, and will hear the name of Jesus in arabic in islam which is Esah and close to Esho, while arabic christians say his name is Iasoo' (they put the first letter in the last).
    http://www.learnassyrian.com/aramaic/church/church.html

  10. #10
    Originally I posted something that was exactly like what Xamonas said in the previous thread, which would be the objective hoistorical/anthropological answer. Since it doesn't seem that that approach worked in the last thread to avoid any conflict I am deleting my post.
    Last edited by SheykAbdullah; 05-05-2006 at 05:18 PM.
    In these days, old man, no one thinks in terms of human beings. Governments don't, so why should we? They talk of the people, the proletariat, and I talk of the mugs. It's the same thing. They have their five year plan and I have mine.-Harry Lime, The Third Man novella by Graham Greene

  11. #11
    Moderator Logos's Avatar
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    My closure of your other topic had nothing to do with "staying on topic", I thought you wanted it closed because you wrote "how about we just close this thread" but I see that what you wrote is not what you meant at all.

    Carry on.
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  12. #12
    ღ Déjà vu ღ miss tenderness's Avatar
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    thanks logos for the hard work u do

    rufio it is good that u ask rather than just adopting the idea and the websites that u stated are not even close to Truth.

    sheild an sword 's answer is quite the truth and if u have anyother wonders we r waiting

  13. #13
    I still maintain that this thread (and its predecessor) is nothing more than an effort to antagonise those of a different faith and belittle their beliefs by means of a spurious argument. I feel the same about the many threads posted by muslims that aim to 'prove' that Jesus is merely a prophet and not an aspect of God (it should come as no surprise to learn that I subscribe to neither of the above ).

    By all means discuss the religious literature - as that is the stated purpose of this forum - but please, please, please keep your evangelism, prosyletising, crusades and holy wars to yourselves.

    And that goes to Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and Ba'hais too! Just in case you were thinking of joining the melée!

  14. #14
    Putting into this thread nothing more than a simple literary approach, might we not see how the names of different gods compare, and compare different etymologies? Some see "`Allah" as parallel to "`Al-Illah". But is this accurate? An Arabic expert might want to show the proof of this assertion that "`Allah" is from "`Al-Illah", and, therefore, a form of "`Eloah". Without perfect evidence, one has a right to wonder if an alternative might not be the only true explanation. Seeing as there was the term "Ra" used by some in Egypt as denoting whom they thought to be the supreme Deity, and since it is not certain in some cases whether a hieroglyph transliterated [R] shouldn't rather be transliterated [L], can you see my point? Is "`Allah" a specific sort of name? Is "Ra" a general word applied in a special manner? On the other hand, there is a Dravidian phonetic I have heard which sounde to me like something between a [Y] and an [R]. Since some make a comparison of the "Aton" of ancient Egypt to Hebrew "ADONAY", a Divine Title in Scripture, could "Ra" once have been pronounced "YAH"? We have all probably read of "Aten-Ra" from Egyptological articles. In like word order, there is named in Hebrew Scripture "ADONAY YHWH". See how many different ways one can make things to show superficial connection? "YAH" has no lexical relation to "`ELOAH", though both can be applied to YHWH `ELOHIM. What do you think?
    Last edited by Mililalil XXIV; 05-05-2006 at 10:08 PM.

  15. #15
    What once was lost... rufioag's Avatar
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    How do Muslims get to wherever they go afterdeath? Sorry I do not know the name.
    No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.

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