Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[sushil_yadav]

Sounds like a tad of eco-terrorism. But a lot of them just recently got arrested out in Oregon or Washington and will spend some time in the slammer. Definitely avoid that eventuality.

Can't really agree with categorizing that writers, artists and poets automatically have more feelings or emotions than, say a mathematician or businessperson. That would be a tough axiom to prove.

There's a ton of eco-literature that you will really enjoy if you haven't yet encountered it. Edward Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" for starters. That's a wild ride. Also, "A River Runs Through It."

byquist,

Thanks for reading the article and for giving information about Environmental Literature. You have mentioned EcoTerrorism. I want to say something in this context.

Governments and Law Enforcement Agencies have labelled a few Environmentalists as EcoTerrorists.

What are the charges against Environmental Activists? - Destruction of property? - endangering human life?

The Military Industrial Complex is doing much more damage to property - it is going around carpet bombing entire countries - flattening entire countries. The Military Industrial Complex is endangering much more human life - it is actually killing - killing millions in War/ Violence - directly or indirectly.

Who is the real Terrorist? - Environmentalists or Industrial Society?

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land in Industrial Society is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

Before Industrialization humans killed Environment primarily for Food. After industrialization humans are killing environment for Food and [unnecessary]Consumer Goods.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in War/ Violence. It has decimated all plant and animal species. It has destroyed all ecosystems. It has polluted and poisioned the Sky, Land and Oceans. It has raped and plundered "Mother Earth" in the name of Progress and Development.

The crimes of "Military Industrial Complex"are millions of times greater than the crimes of Environmentalists.

Comparing the crimes of Environmentalists with the crimes of "Military Industrial Complex" is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.

The entire Industrial Society is a Terrorist.
Science and Technology is the Terrorist.
Military Industrial Complex is the Terrorist.
Culture of Consumerism - culture of making, buying and selling is the Terrorist.

sushil_yadav

[Turk]

Who is the real Terrorist? - Environmentalists or Industrial Society?

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land in Industrial Society is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

I will tell my thoughts on subject later, but here i would like to point that you exaggerating and mixing things.

1. Industrializtion or science are not the reasons of dectructionf of nature, in fact technology and science are in our hands, if we'd use them for good, then it wouldn't be necessary to destory environment.
2. I am not a serial killer, just a humble and modest Turk, who eats a little, who consumes a little and who doesn't corrupt nature. So not "every" man, but some man. I don't like this generaliztion.
3. True problem is perverted capitalist ideology, not industrial society, if we use industry for goodness of our world and for goodness of mankind, then it's not problem. But perverted capitalist mind is only concentrated on making more profit. That's the problem.

[Midas]

I hear so often today the many variations on this theme. So much negativity is spewed forth from that ubiquitous, around the clock, screen that annually grows in size as it narrows in depth, which is no doubt responsible for much of the preoccupation, and slant, of the mind on this area.

If anyone cares to study social history through the ages upon which we have record, it doesn't take any deliberating to conclude that for all its perceived faults, taking everything into consideration, we live far better today than in any previous era.

However, we must take into consideration, that in all other periods, to the people at that time where they were not privileged to see forward (neither are we today) but to only see backward (like we are) they would have probably felt they lived better than their ancestors.

No doubt, this will continue, and the people of our future will feel life is better for them, than for us today.

Ask yourself one question: Is there any period of history in which YOU would have preferred to live your life than the present? (I don't mean just drop in for a visit).

For those who worry about the weather, and conservation, let me remind you that once the whole of the UK was covered in ice and joined to the rest of Europe.

Later, when vegetation arrived most of the land was covered by huge forests. Today, it is warmer. Most of the forests have disappeared. Much of the timber went to build the ships of the British navy that ruled the waves (now even most of that navy has gone.) And 'foggy London is only to be seen on old black and white movies.

But life goes on, and Britain survives without its vast forests.

Life is about adapting, and survival. It has been doing it ever since life began. It will continue well into a future that is way beyond our conception (though we like to feel we can foresee it.)

It was John Lennon who said that 'life is what happens while we are busy making plans' . I could add 'and while worrying about tomorrow' which I guess is what he meant'.

[sushil_yadav]

I hear so often today the many variations on this theme. So much negativity is spewed forth from that ubiquitous, around the clock, screen that annually grows in size as it narrows in depth, which is no doubt responsible for much of the preoccupation, and slant, of the mind on this area.

If anyone cares to study social history through the ages upon which we have record, it doesn't take any deliberating to conclude that for all its perceived faults, taking everything into consideration, we live far better today than in any previous era.

However, we must take into consideration, that in all other periods, to the people at that time where they were not privileged to see forward (neither are we today) but to only see backward (like we are) they would have probably felt they lived better than their ancestors.

No doubt, this will continue, and the people of our future will feel life is better for them, than for us today.

Ask yourself one question: Is there any period of history in which YOU would have preferred to live your life than the present? (I don't mean just drop in for a visit).

For those who worry about the weather, and conservation, let me remind you that once the whole of the UK was covered in ice and joined to the rest of Europe.

Later, when vegetation arrived most of the land was covered by huge forests. Today, it is warmer. Most of the forests have disappeared. Much of the timber went to build the ships of the British navy that ruled the waves (now even most of that navy has gone.) And 'foggy London is only to be seen on old black and white movies.

But life goes on, and Britain survives without its vast forests.

Life is about adapting, and survival. It has been doing it ever since life began. It will continue well into a future that is way beyond our conception (though we like to feel we can foresee it.)

It was John Lennon who said that 'life is what happens while we are busy making plans' . I could add 'and while worrying about tomorrow' which I guess is what he meant'.

Midas,

Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.

Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods]. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.

sushil_yadav

[earthboar]

While that was a huge cut & paste, and most of us would have appreciated the article cited rather than posted, some of it I would have to agree with. We have a lot of Tibetan refugees in my area, for instance, and one shop owner told me that the Tibetans were simple people, not by nature clever. The Chinese are more sophisticated and clever, and this very generalized distinction gave them the advantage when it came to dominating Tibet. In the very first part of the very first post (I didn't read the entire tome), I think we can see the effects of cultures that reinforce quick intellectual decision on those that take more time to assimilate change. What the Chinese did to the Tibetan world is no different from what the European expansionists did to the Native Americans, no different, whatsoever. Free Tibet? Why not Free North America? Same thing.

This closing gaps in thinking is quite interesting, but is also an artificial contrivance. Not all westerners allow themselves to be continually bombarded with a perpetual stream of marketing and media. Some do, but not all. As a whole, we are asked to process more and more information every year. Tax forms are too big for any one person to understand, and there are far more laws on the books than any one person can or should be expected to comprehend. I'm probably breaking some laws just by sitting here and typing on this computer.

An interesting, related book might be Antonio DaMasio's Descarte's Error. DaMasio proposed that western culture took it for granted that, "I think, therefore I am" constitutes truth, and in taking that path we forgot that "I feel, therefore I am" is an equally valid proposition.

[Virgil]

I didn't read much of this, but I did catch a few lines that are incredible if you ask me:

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.

Life expectancy in this modern industrial world has reached around 80 years. Primitive man was lucky if he lived to 25.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

What did people do before industrialization? Work 14 hours a day on a farm and pray the crops grew or they starved to death. Ever work on a farm my friend? I bet after a year you would beg to work 8 hours a day in a factory in a nice city.

[Logos]

While that was a huge cut & paste, and most of us would have appreciated the article cited rather than posted....

sushil_yadav has been very busy. 27,100 google hits for "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"

[NikolaiI]

I didn't read much of this, but I did catch a few lines that are incredible if you ask me:



Life expectancy in this modern industrial world has reached around 80 years. Primitive man was lucky if he lived to 25.



What did people do before industrialization? Work 14 hours a day on a farm and pray the crops grew or they starved to death. Ever work on a farm my friend? I bet after a year you would beg to work 8 hours a day in a factory in a nice city.

But the problem is what we do to the environment. What if a glacier shelf slides off antarctica into the ocean, raises the water level 60 feet, and kills 95% of the population?

[sushil_yadav]

sushil_yadav has been very busy. 27,100 google hits for "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"

Yes, I have posted in many Forums and Blogs. What is wrong with it?

It has taken me 20 years to write the article and I am trying to spread the message. I have not gone around posting at random. I have always posted in Forums that are relevant to the article/ related to keywords in the article.

sushil_yadav

[sushil_yadav]

I didn't read much of this, but I did catch a few lines that are incredible if you ask me:

Life expectancy in this modern industrial world has reached around 80 years. Primitive man was lucky if he lived to 25.

What did people do before industrialization? Work 14 hours a day on a farm and pray the crops grew or they starved to death. Ever work on a farm my friend? I bet after a year you would beg to work 8 hours a day in a factory in a nice city.

Life expectancy of 80 at what cost - at the cost of destruction of all ecosystems?

Life expectancy of 80 for how long?
Life expectancy is going to become zero very soon - human life will cease to exist - humans will be lucky to survive a few more decades.

Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Man has lived most of its existence on earth in non-industrial society.

sushil_yadav

[Lote-Tree]

Life expectancy is going to become zero very soon - human life will cease to exist - humans will be lucky to survive a few more decades.

sushil_yadav

We have heard this before. But human beings have this uncanny knack for survial!

I think your assesment is too gloomy. Sure there are challenges for humanity. But we have the power to solve it. All it needs will power!

[Logos]

Yes, I have posted in many Forums and Blogs. What is wrong with it?

It has taken me 20 years to write the article and I am trying to spread the message. I have not gone around posting at random. I have always posted in Forums that are relevant to the article/ related to keywords in the article.

sushil_yadav

You seem a little defensive--I didn't say there was something 'wrong' with it. Just pointing out a fact. But I always wonder why people (like this guy too) have to resort to posting their life's work in public discussion forums instead of having it published in a more scholarly/traditional manner.

[Virgil]

Life expectancy of 80 at what cost - at the cost of destruction of all ecosystems?

Life expectancy of 80 for how long?
Life expectancy is going to become zero very soon - human life will cease to exist - humans will be lucky to survive a few more decades.

Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Man has lived most of its existence on earth in non-industrial society.

sushil_yadav

Well, Sushil, if you don't want to enjoy the benefits of the modern world, you don't have to. Good luck. I for one thank God I live in the modern world. I enjoy the modern world with all of its comforts and reasonable work days, and if people were presented with the options of pre-industrial with industrial, then I am certain almost everyone would choose the modern world. Even you I doubt lives in a pre-industrial manner. Do you live in a hut? Do you have plumbing? Do you have electricity? Come on, let's get real.

[NikolaiI]

Social change is something that requires networking, and it takes a long time and it is gradual. Unorganized protests are doomed to fail, futile as flipping off a motor-cyclist. Social change will be more successful as a movement (you can't arrest a movement) rather than when they take up a savior for the cause. And Virgil, no one is calling sushil a savior, so let's look at his ideas and discuss them, rather than worrying about what kind of life he leads.

We are killing the environment. Somewhat recently the first species of animal went extinct thanks specifically to global warming, a snail.

About labor; it wasn't until we industrialized that it became so bad for us, when factory workers became cogs in a machine, working themselves to death. I don't totally agree with sushil's equations, but thank you for bringing them up...

[Virgil]

Social change is something that requires networking, and it takes a long time and it is gradual. Unorganized protests are doomed to fail, futile as flipping off a motor-cyclist. Social change will be more successful as a movement (you can't arrest a movement) rather than when they take up a savior for the cause. And Virgil, no one is calling sushil a savior, so let's look at his ideas and discuss them, rather than worrying about what kind of life he leads.

We are killing the environment. Somewhat recently the first species of animal went extinct thanks specifically to global warming, a snail.

About labor; it wasn't until we industrialized that it became so bad for us, when factory workers became cogs in a machine, working themselves to death. I don't totally agree with sushil's equations, but thank you for bringing them up...

Let me ask you nick, how you would want us to lead life? Without modern medicine? That requires factories and factory workers ("cogs" as you call them) to make medicine and equipment. Do you want us to live with cars? Do you us want to live without electricity? How many people are you going to put out of work? Do you us want to live without plumbing? Or airconditioning? Or dishwashers? Or without sheetrock for your walls? Or concrete for you your home foundation or wood (trees cut down, the horror!) for your home? Or are you going to plant all your food? what are you going to use for toilet paper nick, when you find out that there is a factory of cogs that make toilet paper so you can wipe your pampered rear?

I bet you no one would live like that. I see from your profile you're 19 years old. Well, when you grow up and live real life, come back and debate this with me, especially when you've gone and tried to live your utopia. Then you can tell me how easy it is.