Nothing will work except killing the terrorists. WE do not need to reduce population. The terrorists are not our kind of people. Try not to be naive. WE'll colonize space. The sky is indeed the limit.Originally Posted by Volya
Nothing will work except killing the terrorists. WE do not need to reduce population. The terrorists are not our kind of people. Try not to be naive. WE'll colonize space. The sky is indeed the limit.
Didn't say we have to reduce the population... Not sure what you've been smoking cafolini and where you got the idea of terrorists from...
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Increase in population has been wrongly associated with overbreeding and vilified as the cause of environmental destruction.
Overpopulation is a consequence of industrialization not overbreeding.....The entire world was overbreeding before industrialization, The entire world is underbreeding after industrialization.....There used to be 5 - 15 children per family before industrialization, Most families are now having 1 - 4 children.
World population jumped from 1 billion in the year 1800 to 7 billion in just 200 years after industrialization.
So if anything is to be blamed for overpopulation it is industrialization.
Overpoppulation and Overconsumerism are consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.
In the absence of Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.
Population has not destroyed environment.... This planet can sustain many times the present level of human population if we limit our activity to food, clothing and shelter and stop destroying environment for thousands of Industrial Consumer Goods.
The total requirement of food for millions of species (including man) has not increased on earth, because increase in requirement of food for man has coincided with decrease in requirement of food for millions of other species that have been decimated by man.....The forests that used to provide food to millions of other species before they got decimated are now agricultural land providing food to man.
If half of the world population is undernourished today it is not because of shortage of food but because the other half of world population is overnourished and has become obese due to overeating.
30 - 40% of packaged food in Industrial Society is thrown away.
Vegetarian food can feed a far bigger human population than non vegetarian food.
Billions of tonnes of Food Grains and Billions of acres of Grazing Land is being used to feed billions of cattle which are then slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses to then feed billions of people, half of whom have become obese due to overeating.......If the same food grains and land were used to directly provide vegetarian food to people then a far bigger human population(than the present one) can be sustained.
The entire world has been making efforts to control population for the last 50 years....In the absence of these efforts world population would have been much greater than what it is now.....So there is no problem with population at all.
Industrialization led to overpopulation and overconsumerism....Industrial Society has been trying to control population while increasing consumerism exponentially....This is height of insanity.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live for ever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of consumer goods in this world.
Environment has been destroyed by consumerism not population.
The combined population of other species (whose size and weight) were equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than the present human population.....Yet they destroyed very little environment because they destroyed environment only for food , not for thousands of industrial consumer goods and services.
The total burden of population has not increased on earth........Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of other species.
It is the burden of lifestyle that has increased on earth.....Millions of other species destroy environment only for food, Man is destroying environment for food, clothing, shelter plus thousands of consumer goods and services.
The cause of environmental destruction is consumerism not population.
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Last edited by sushil_yadav; 06-16-2013 at 08:42 AM.
Overpopulation is a consequence of industrialization not overbreeding.....The entire world was overbreeding before industrialization, The entire world is underbreeding after industrialization.....There used to be 5 - 15 children per family before industrialization, Most families are now having 1 - 4 children.
World population jumped from 1 billion in the year 1800 to 7 billion in just 200 years after industrialization.
So if anything is to be blamed for overpopulation it is industrialization.
In other words... industrialization, science, and technology have resulted in a greater infant mortality rate, an increased lifespan (as basic illness that were once fatal are now curable), and greatly improved the diet... and thus the health and immunity of the advanced industrial/technological nations. This, by your argument, is something to be eliminated. Survival of the fittest... let the majority die off. I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
Perhaps we could fix the problem by employing those nuclear weapons we Westerners always embrace. Start with India. That's what... a billion and a half+... including your own irritating self. Problem fixed.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
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Just like the grand solutions made by "coalition of the stupid" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Population is a non issue....A total non issue.
The problem is western civilization.
Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.
The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.
The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.
The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.
The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".
The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development.
The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.
These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.
In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.
Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
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America has 5% of world population and is consuming 25 - 40% of world resources.
Do you know how many millions of acres of forests have been destroyed in South/ Central America to produce grains and grazing grounds for feeding billions of cattle which are then slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses and imported by America and Europe to feed their population, half to two-thirds of which has grown obese due to overeating???
Do you know how many millions of acres of rain forests have been destroyed to produce bio fuel for America and Europe???
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Last edited by sushil_yadav; 06-15-2013 at 12:34 PM.
Talk a lot of tosh do you.
Industrialisation good.
Ignorance bad.
If you have been affected by anything in this posting, then you are very simple minded lol.
This is hilarious.
The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.
These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.
I thought Hippies were extinct.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
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Supreme Courts and other courts of the world will never stop Industrial Projects that are destroying Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers,Oceans and Atmosphere..
Filing petitions in courts to save environment is a total waste of time.
Courts are Urban Institutions....Most of the Higher courts operate from Cities....They employ Urban People.
Urban Courts will always promote the interests of Urban Population, Not the interests of Villagers, Tribal People, Fishermen or Forests, Rivers and Oceans.
Cities are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers and Oceans.
Supreme Court judges are Urban Dwellers....If there is no electricity in the city their offices and homes will go dark, their air conditioners will stop working, So they will always give clearance to all kinds of Energy Generation Projects.....Urban Living requires an endless supply of Metals and Minerals, So they will always give clearance to all kinds of Mining Projects.
The children of Supreme Court Judges are studying in Urban Schools and Universities....After passing out they will need jobs....All Urban Jobs are connected with Industrial Activity, directly or indirectly.....Therefore Supreme Court Judges will always promote Industrial Activity without which their children will have no jobs in future.
Judges might pretend to be working for the oppressed by stopping Industrial Projects for a few months but ultimately the approval is sure to come after the farce of Review Committees and Expert Panels all of whose members are Urban Dwellers once again.
Millions of Industries and Corporations are destroying environment....How many Industries and Corporations have been shut down by Courts in the entire world???
No Anti Industrial Protest for saving environment can succeed in this world without fixing the problem of Urban Population and Urban Education.
[And even if a few protests do succeed it is hardly going to make a difference when millions of Industries and Corporations are destroying environment moment by moment]
Almost the entire Urban Population of the world is employed in the Industrial Sector and is promoting Industrial Activity.
All Industrial Activity of the world is being run and promoted by University Graduates.
Whenever a new Industrial Project comes up anywhere whose implementation would destroy Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers or Oceans, a few hundred/ thousand local people and activists start protesting against the Project whereas millions of Urban People [which includes Governments and All Industrial/ Financial Organizations] start lobbying for the Project.
This is a very Unequal Battle which can never be won by the minority which is trying to save environment.
The battle has already been lost.....The Planet is dying and gasping for last breath.
Nuclear Power Plants, Coal Power plants, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands, Fracking Industry, Monsanto.....None of these industries that are destroying environment can be stopped without fixing the problem of Urban population and Urban Education.
The source/ cause of all Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is Urban Work and Urban Education.
Destruction of environment can never be stopped unless Urban Work is stopped and Universities are closed down.
Urban Work is the problem.....Urban Work is the enemy.
Urban Education is the problem.....Schools and Universities are the enemy.
Industries and Corporations can never be stopped without stopping the Universities that are producing Millions of Scientists, Engineers, MBA's, Economists, Business and Finance Graduates who are running and promoting all Industrial Activity in this world.
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Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
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uffff seems offensive for me.didn't read the all.
яσcк үσυя σωη sтүℓε____∂αηcε үσυя σωη вεαт
Yeah! We don't need no education! Schools are the enemy! Lets stay stupid!
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It is the educated people who are stupid not the uneducated.
Environment has been destroyed by educated people.
Sushil, life is too short to read your over long entries, but the thesis in the question is based on a false premise, so if you don't understand how a high population came about, stop ranting on about a subject of which you obviously know very little.
You are assuming that industrialised people don’t take time out to stop and think.
No we don’t tolerate wasters sitting contemplating their navels in some self centred, look at me aren’t I good because I sit and think, no those sufis or whatever you call them are wasters.
Plato, Christ, Locke (and all the other British philosophers including Adam Smith) merely took time out to think and then DID, they were all in Industrial (or proto industrial) ages.
They didn’t sit around ‘Tossing it off’ which is what you suggest.
The high population is due to the amount of calories available to feed people, and is boosted by Public Health, industrialisation has only helped because there is the sanitation and soap for cleanliness.
This came about, and was inevitable as soon as the first farmer started farming and hunter gatherers stopped.
The population in Australia was low because the Aborigines didn't have farming so starved to death, this is an extremely slow excruciating and agonising way to die.
The population in Asia was a lot higher than Europe because Rice can be harvested upto three times a year and gives a higher calorific yield per acre than, wheat, barley, or chickpeas.
It is the understanding of Public health, and ability to stop people from dying that has given the initial rise in population, in the West this has stopped, and is on the decline, because an affluent society has less children.
This happened in the pre-industrial Roman Empire.
Indeed in India richer people have fewer children, and this happens all over the world.
Religion and the isms (Communism/Socialism/Fascism) are the main reasons, Nations have high populations, due to ignorance and Socialism which promotes corruption and is the overriding reason the Population of the world is so high.
Corruption is the main reason people are poor, Rule of Law and Free trade are the main reasons people are rich and have fewer children.
You have ranted on for 7 years apparently unchallenged that your whole argument has no basis, and is in itself based on gross ignorance, of the fact that washing ones hands and yield per acre of land are the main reasons behind the rise in survival rates for children.
Read and learn sunshine, you are suggesting that we make a world where people would die by the billions a very very slow agonising death.
Industrialisation good, ignorance bad.
Last edited by Pen Name; 06-18-2013 at 11:50 AM.
If you have been affected by anything in this posting, then you are very simple minded lol.
Indeed.
Try the documentaries "What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire," "Age of Stupid," and others.
Some more points to consider:
Population increased significantly because of oil used for manufacturing and mechanized agriculture. The problem is that conventional oil production is barely rising, non-conventional production has higher energy costs, and demand continues to rise worldwide. The result is oil prices now three times higher than they should be, high food prices, chronic unemployment, etc.
Some studies show that when food prices rise, so does social unrest. This partly explains the Arab Spring, protests in Europe, increasing surveillance in the U.S., tensions in the Middle East and in Asia, and now protests in Turkey and Brazil.
Meanwhile, increasing money supply and credit (e.g., over a quadrillion dollars in unregulated derivatives, notional value) is leading to one economic crisis after another, and the only "solution" that governments can do is to throw in more money into a system that is falling apart because of...too much money.
Die-offs and environmental disasters are being reported readily in the news, such as bee colony collapse, a third of crops destroyed due to flooding or drought, sea ice melting, etc.
Most are in denial of such because they do not want their middle class fantasies of the future to be destroyed, even though everything mentioned describes what happened during the last five years.
Last edited by ralfyman; 06-19-2013 at 05:58 AM.
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