Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[JuniperWoolf]

Much of Northern Alberta looks like the surface of the moon, like Mordor in Lord of the Rings, and by the time the Canadian tar-sands are fully developed the affected area will be larger than the state of Florida.

Haha, it does look like Mordor:



And it stretches for miiiiiles:



That's money they're pulling out of the ground, though. If there were ever to be an environmental law written to shut down oil sands operations, my kinsmen would likely drink themselves to death just like last time when the coal mines shut down.

My friend Les just said this a second ago so I'm putting it here:

Fun fact: did you know the oil sands employs more people and has 'fewer Co2 emmisions' than the Ontario auto making plants? But the entire worldwide oil industry is a gross immoral thing. Fighting the oil demands would be the way to go, don't just fall into the trendy scapegoating of the oilsands while still driving everywhere despite the fact your city has a descent public transportation system. Also, the alternative for oil right now is the middle east, mainly saudi arabia which is an *** backwards country under a monarchy that still holds public executions.

Then again, we have a personal interest in the oil sands.

[cafolini]

#1 and #2 are impossible to discuss. I have seldom seen more insanity in a single place. Good posts about madness.

[Darcy88]

Haha, it does look like Mordor:



And it stretches for miiiiiles:



That's money they're pulling out of the ground, though. If there were ever to be an environmental law written to shut down oil sands operations, my kinsmen would likely drink themselves to death just like last time when the coal mines shut down.

My friend Les just said this a second ago so I'm putting it here:



Then again, we have a personal interest in the oil sands.

If all the money that went into oil were suddenly spent on the development of alternative energy sources there'd be no problem. I understand the whole focus on jobs, after all, one's family must eat, but if you look at what every credible scientist says is coming, the concern for jobs really becomes insignificant. Its way too politicized to get into here, but some of the predictions are downright apocalyptic. The Pentagon says the environment will become the single greatest threat to America's national security. That's the freaking Pentagon!

On aesthetic reasons alone I'd scale the oil-sands back. And its not just Alberta that's sold its soul. British Columbia is the natural gas fracking leader of the world.

[JuniperWoolf]

If all the money that went into oil were suddenly spent on the development of alternative energy sources there'd be no problem.

That's unrealistic though. I don't think there will be much of a change until there are some more urgent negative effects felt, and I think that the chances run high that we'll run out of oil before the environment takes too hard a hit (but that will still put humans at risk if we haven't found an alternative source of energy by then). Envorinmental doomsday predictions have really started to seem somewhat misguided to me, especially since I started seriously studying ecology. People often think that nature is a weak system that needs human protection, but that's not true. It's only our own survival and progress that would realistically justify searching for more efficient energy sources, and in that sense it is justified. We as a species would have a lot more time, energy and resources to accomplish great things if we were able to easily and safely pull usable energy from the air, as Tesla proposed.

[cafolini]

That's unrealistic though. I don't think there will be much of a change until there are some more urgent negative effects felt, and I think that the chances run high that we'll run out of oil before the environment takes too hard a hit (but that will still put humans at risk if we haven't found an alternative source of energy by then). Envorinmental doomsday predictions have really started to seem somewhat misguided to me, especially since I started seriously studying ecology. People often think that nature is a weak system that needs human protection, but that's not true. It's only our own survival and progress that would realistically justify searching for more efficient energy sources, and in that sense it is justified. We as a species would have a lot more time, energy and resources to accomplish great things if we were able to easily and safely pull usable energy from the air, as Tesla proposed.

In that sense, Tesla is outdated. But he did leave us the frequency transformers and some other great stuf. Tesla was one of the greatest scientists that ever lived.
During the WW Marconi had the contracts and the ability to take over Tesla's work and the fascistic Italians to later (WWII) claim discoveries they never made.

[Darcy88]

That's unrealistic though. I don't think there will be much of a change until there are some more urgent negative effects felt, and I think that the chances run high that we'll run out of oil before the environment takes too hard a hit (but that will still put humans at risk if we haven't found an alternative source of energy by then). Envorinmental doomsday predictions have really started to seem somewhat misguided to me, especially since I started seriously studying ecology. People often think that nature is a weak system that needs human protection, but that's not true. It's only our own survival and progress that would realistically justify searching for more efficient energy sources, and in that sense it is justified. We as a species would have a lot more time, energy and resources to accomplish great things if we were able to easily and safely pull usable energy from the air, as Tesla proposed.

We have enough natural gas underground to keep us going for a very long time, America included. A 3 degree rise in overall world temperature is all that's needed for major changes to take place and our reaching that mark is all but inevitable.

Your post brings to mind a classic bit by Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNobFi3Q-9Y

[JuniperWoolf]

3 degree rise in overall world temperature is all that's needed for major changes to take place and our reaching that mark is all but inevitable.

I'm not worried about it.

Your post brings to mind a classic bit by Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNobFi3Q-9Y

Haha, I've never seen that before. I usually try to avoid the Carlin hype, I'm more of a Stanhope kind of person, but he really did have a great mind. He really knew his sh*t, I like this version (it was in the "related videos" column) where he says that the earth is a self-regulating system and describes the conditions under which life was previously extinguished and then re-built.

Watching those videos reminded me of how much people who make reference to "saving the planet" or who call themselves "green" are really starting to piss me off, I was drowned in that whole culture in university (and I would call it a culture - it really seems more about people defining themselves, and finding other people to identify with, than actual progression). Someone could have objectively described me as an "environmentalist" when I was 16-19ish, but now it just seems like one big ineffectual global-wide self satisfied circle jerk, with just a dash of fear mongering for profit. Humans are just a species, our job is just to exist in this world and continue to exist. There are feedback loops in nature which guarantee that our own ability to survive and reduce our own suffering means that we must live in harmony with our environment, and if we don't then we die and nature as a system continues.

"If nature were but to shrug, or to raise an eyebrow, then we should all be gone."
-Alan Moore

Saving ourselves is a worthy enough motivation without both flattering and punishing ourselves by imagining that we not only can, but also have a responsibility to, save every other species (well, the cute ones at least), Humans have a lot of potential and could really go far.

[sushil_yadav]

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food......It cannot sustain a society where 50% of world population produces food for 100% of population .......and the remaining 50% is engaged in production and marketing of Consumer Goods and Services.

In Industrial Society a fraction of population produces Food for entire population......The rest of the population [which means most of the people living in Cities and Urban Areas] creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied.....which leads to Extra destruction of environment......which makes sustainability an impossibility.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Environment in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums, Golf Courses and other sports facilities.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.

Environment has been destroyed by Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.

Industrial Activity has destroyed Forests, Rivers and Oceans....It has produced Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste......It has killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement and concrete.

Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.........Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[BookBeauty]

Much of this reminds me of what the Zeitgeist movies were saying, and the various ideas that the Venus Project has been volleying, about a resource-based economy, or trying to make our economy sustainable, and choosing better solutions for the environment.

When we have geothermal, solar, wind and tidal power, and we're simply not utilizing it because it's not as profitable as oil, we have a problem. Industry was essential to progress, but there's a lot of rumours about peak oil, and the eventual and inevitable decline of oil.

Everything's about production. The onwards goal of : Go-Go-Going. But, here's the catch.. They have to continue making goods, with the cheapest available materials, which makes the goods obsolete. They're simply not made to last, or to be good quality. You can't trust skin cream because it's actually designed to make you think you've got softer skin, drying it out in the process, making it essential to buy more. It's all about buying, and if we're not buying and selling, the economy is not functioning properly. This continual economic growth is not something that we can keep up with for an infinite amount of time.

Basically, our system is broken and people are ignoring it, sitting pretty watching television and going to 8-hour-a-day jobs they hate, which cause them to be antipathic to any issues that the world might have.

The Venus Project has a plan, whereas the Zeitgeist movement is trying to get people together to find various plans, or solutions.

But, what everyone seems to agree with is that the system's not going to change until either it's just too late, or it's a hair's breadth away from being too late.

The best thing to do to take action as an individual, I think, is possibly the transitional towns and cities that have begun circulating their own currency, which doesn't effect the global economy. In addition, most goods then are bought locally, and there is less issue with environmental problems.

[sushil_yadav]

BookBeauty,

I want to thank you for your post in which you have expressed concern about environmental destruction and consumerism......and for giving information about the Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project. I have made some more additions to my article which I am posting here.

...........

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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There is only one cause of environmental destruction.......Industrialization.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.......The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society of 7 billion has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after industrialization because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.

An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.

World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

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For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it doesn't matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems......Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[cafolini]

I often wondered who was the freak advising Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.

[sushil_yadav]

I often wondered who was the freak advising Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.

I also used to often wonder who was missing from the group of lunatics that advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".

[cafolini]

I also used to often wonder who was missing from the group of lunatics that advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".

I think it was you all the way. They figured out your insane proposals and idiotic doings.

[sushil_yadav]

You are wrong genius.

I advised the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

You advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".

I am glad I did not advise George Bush and Company.......The "Coalition of the Stupid".

[cafolini]

You are wrong genius.

I advised the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

You advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".

I am glad I did not advise George Bush and Company.......The "Coalition of the Stupid".

You'll submit to freedom, or evaporate, vice squad. Case closed.