Which ‘me’ matters most?

[The Unnamable]

In order to avoid any confusion, I know the following aren’t the only possibilities but please limit yourself to one of them if you respond. When I say ‘matters most’ I mean which is most important for our individual survival.

a. What other people really think of me;
b. What I think other people think of me;
c. What I think of myself;
d. Who I really am?

Yes, I have already thought about it and have opinions but so will you have if you decide to respond. I expect some uncertainty over what is meant by d. so you’ll have to explain what it means yourself if that’s your choice.

[RobinHood3000]

Hmm...I think confusion might also be an issue for choice B (took me a couple seconds to realize what the sentence means--I still have to think about what it implies ).

For me, I like to think (there's choice C popping up) that I value a combination of C and D. I want to think about the difference between who I am (meaning, my core values, my character, my way of thinking about relationships with others) and who I want to be (meaning, the core values I wish to live up to, the character that those core values dictate, and what a fair and unselfish way of treating others is [obviously, I still have progress to be made in that area]). Whenever I have trouble with A and B, I go to my ex-girlfriend--personas never seem to work on her, and she has a keen intuition for who people are and what they are thinking and feeling.

[The Unnamable]

Okay, I’ll try to elaborate:

a. What other people really think of me; by this I mean what people really think of when they think of me. Not what they might say to me or others about me but what they actually see me as being. So it could include friends, relatives or strangers. What they say in public might not be what they think in private.

b. What I think other people think of me; - this is what I assume they think of me. It might not be accurate but it’s what I believe is their idea of me. I’ll complicate it further by adding that I’m sure we all register the difference between the way someone publicly behaves towards us and what we think they ‘really’ think about us. So they might appear to like us but we know/suspect that underneath that appearance lurks a deep dislike.

c. What I think of myself; - this is the most straightforward I hope. It’s the way I appear to myself. The only complication I can add is that we might be lying to ourselves. So I might generally think of myself as X but that’s only because I block out Y. I might or might not be aware of Y.

d. Who I really am? – this one is the most difficult but the one I have heard most in this kind of discussion – especially in phrases like ‘the real me’. What do we mean when we say something like, “That wasn’t the real me you saw drunk last night.” I don’t mean for d. to be a combination of the others. I suppose for me it would have to be a hypothetical entity. It assumes that ‘I’ cannot be defined by other people or even by myself as it is used in c. Is the way I appear to myself the ‘real’ me? Personally, I get the impression sometimes that I am hiding something from myself but perhaps even having awareness of that suggests I do know the ‘real’ me.

[rachel]

for me d is the most important. I may not completely 'know' who I am , i am still gro wing and learning,but certain things i do or think or say keep coming back over and over and like a scripture says" from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" So therefore over time and thru trials and just living I find myself responding the same way over and over and after a while a picture of myself comes before my eyes. Not a great picture mind, but it is me, I recognize her. So who I really am means the most to me because it is the sum total so far of what I have worked out in life as representing my values and feelings and philosophy and I must be true to myself and proceed from that point.

[Nightshade]

Well I personally think B is important because its what we assume our 'image' is so its the reflection of our self image isnt it?
And it governs what you do doesnt it?
>>>>Wait is this topic supposed to be about me, or about what I belive is general human bvehaviour in relation to their "me'?

Anyway as I was saying When people say what will people think what they are really thinking is whatI think people think isnt it? what people actually think is immaterial to self image except when forced on you like in cases of whats the word not segrigation, somthing to do with bias somting with a C like rasisim or agisim or sexsism.

Also what you think people think of you is imporatn to helping you identify yourself with an "ingroup" as it were isnt it?
C is also important really.

[Nightshade]

Rachel but arent you really saying thats who you think/belive you are. Not who you are. THink about it to know who you are you have to be objective. and be able to seperate your self and look back but still youd have to think wouldnt you?
And the very act of thinking means you are medeating your opinion and looking at it from your prespoective which tilt s the picture doesnt it??
(sorry I feel argumentitive tonight )
In fact Noone can trully know the REAL them because the real themnm is standing in the way. A brilliant example of not being able to see the woods for the trees.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

In the original post, Unnamable says "I mean which is most important for our individual survival."

In which case, unless one is bordering on the suicidal, the most important is A. Of course all of the others have a bearing on A, but ultimately, it's only other people's opinions (and even then, only in extreme cases!) that can effect our survival, not our own.

Or am I misinterpreting the definition of 'matters most'?

[higley]

Philosophically, I suppose the most important is D, or at least it's supposed to be. In reality, however, people are very concerned about how others percieve them and this governs most of their actions. So in the context of modern society? B.

[rachel]

Night, in terms of survival for me it is d. because if I see myself doing or saying something over and over, a gut reaction that seems to come from my heart in all sorts of situations then that is who I 'know' myself to be. I said I am still learning, in ten years I might think something different. but i am talking survival and since these feelings, responses are and have been what I do, have been doing to survive and I am still here and functioning then that is what or who I perceive to be the 'real' me and I will go with that. this is getting confusing.

[IrishCanadian]

I think you would all be intersted in reading King Lear in light of this thread. Machiavelli covered this too in The Prince.
Shakespear: "Speak less than thou knowest ... "
"Speak what we feel not what we aught to say"
Machiavelli: "To be loved and feard"
(paraphrasing) Do what is good and be seen in that action, but always be preparted to do evil.
How a person sees him/herself could be distructive if it were a false perception, however, we are all sinners. Machiavelli would say that wha other people thikn of me is the most important. Shakespear would say How i truely am is the most important. I personally agree with Shakespear on this one ... But Machiavelli advises to "anticipate the storm when the sea is calm."
With Shakespear's way we are most likely to lead to our own destruction since people take advantage of the kind. Machiavelli will get farther in life with his gaurd up ... but he is simply less virtuous.

[Nightshade]

In the original post, Unnamable says "I mean which is most important for our individual survival."
In which case, unless one is bordering on the suicidal, the most important is A. Of course all of the others have a bearing on A, but ultimately, it's only other people's opinions (and even then, only in extreme cases!) that can effect our survival, not our own.

Not really thats not individual survival it survial in a community, isnt it?? wait no that makes my argument invalid also.
Ok let me put it this way.
If indivudual survival means actual physical satefy - then yes A but if it menas psycholoigical well being then I think B and C are the most important.
Obviopusly D as in who you really are afffects B and C becasue who you are affects the way you precive things and the way you think about things thus affecting your preception of youself aand of what you think other percieve.
Like my dad is one of themost honest people and genuinely good people I know so hes is constantly being conned because he never thinks peple would cheat.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

Wait a minute, did I put tab A into slot C when it should have been attached to plate D. And I seem to have flange B left over. Where does that go?

This thread is a little too IKEA for my taste.

[The Unnamable]

In which case, unless one is bordering on the suicidal, the most important is A. Of course all of the others have a bearing on A, but ultimately, it's only other people's opinions (and even then, only in extreme cases!) that can effect our survival, not our own.

Or am I misinterpreting the definition of 'matters most'?

Controversial choice! I can see your point – except that I don’t think you have to be suicidal to pick something else. For instance, although there is no doubt that I have to live my life in the context of there being other people (and this will obviously place on me certain limitations), perhaps I can only live with that fact by asserting my own sense of self.
So by ‘matters most to your survival’, I don’t mean that if other people decide to kill you, you can ignore it and choose something else. I mean which matters for your psychological as well as physical well being.


IrishCanadian,
Some interesting thoughts. However, when you quoted Albany’s words, "Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say," I couldn’t help remembering that when Lear himself did that a few lines earlier, his response to life was “Howl, howl, howl, howl!” I’ve just had another look at the ending – it’s almost unbearable.

This thread is a little too IKEA for my taste.

I try my best. If it’s any consolation, I’m more confused than ever but I do now have a marvellous new vertical dining room table, several three-legged chairs and one five-legged table lamp.

[The Unnamable]

If indivudual survival means actual physical satefy - then yes A but if it menas psycholoigical well being then I think B and C are the most important.
Obviopusly D as in who you really are afffects B and C becasue who you are affects the way you precive things and the way you think about things thus affecting your preception of youself aand of what you think other percieve.

On the whole, I agree with you and I think you clear up Xamonas’s question. However, what others perceive might not be the ‘real you’. That might be unknown to everyone, in which case it just as well not exist, I suppose. So is the 'real me' irrelevant? Sorry, that's not a question addressed to you in particular, I'm just thinking aloud.

[The Unnamable]

That wasn't the 'real me' who voted.