I know that a lot of your posts relate to Animal Farm, but I was just wondering what you generally thought about it?
I know that a lot of your posts relate to Animal Farm, but I was just wondering what you generally thought about it?
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
Excellent tale that not only re-told the Russian Revolution, but showed how persistent people can be to get into power, sacrificing everyone under them, in the case of the book all of the animals that were "below" the pigs.
I read the book in one night (approx. 3 & one-half hours). I throughly enjoyed it. It combines the stark reality of Communism with the readibility of any good novel.Originally Posted by fayefaye
YOu know what' s ironic? i read it the first time, and i'm like, 'yeh, communism's bad' but then i started researching lenin, trotsky and karl marx, and now i'm thinkin of turnin commie! i'm gonna be a communist!
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
What I got was not "Communism is bad" but that quite simply power corrupts. In the end, nothing much to choose between communists and capitalists- the pigs end up indistinguishable from the men. The only thought that keeps me going isthat as each revolution of yesterday settles into the Conservatism of today, the seeds of tomorrow's revolution are sprouting somewhere.
I'm nobody, who are you?
Are you nobody too?
There's a pair of us, don't tell!
They'd banish us, you know!
How dreary to be somebody!
I have read this book long time ago so i dont remember that well...
Fayefaye, you can't just change sides like that, remember that life is not divided into the good and the bad. First of all, Lenin was REAL communist. Unlike Plekhanov (sorry for the spelling) he used popular literature (using "propagandist" lectues that were a lot more fiery than the interlectual and hardly comprehensible by the proletariat). In the end, after Lenin had power the anarchy that followed (and the possible incopentency of Lenin) killed (starved) around 12 million people (not sure about the numbers but it was a LOT) Infuriated by this outrage the Kronstadt sailors (those were the people who seized the legendary Potemkin rebelled, but were killed by Trotsky, Lenin's war minister. Both Lenin and Trotsky said that the former dreams of a immediate good future after russia became communist were just "party line" and then changed policy to allow little free marketing. Lenin, a brave and humble man, quite often striken by great urges of power would die in a little gleam of hope, as the policy brought stabilization, slowly but steadily. Trotsky would die in failure.
---
The Rise of Stalin came about like this:
Lenin said stalin was too rude and refused to nominate him heir.
Lenin's illness delayed his voice recording denouncing stalin, but before it could be published stalin got his hands on it and then with his cunning strategy he befrended and then got rid of all rivals (including Trotsky) and then took power. You probably know what happened after that...
By the way Lening got power through coup d'etat, not a democratic election. (the Bolsheviks were not the majority when Lenin got power. Ironically the name bolskevik means "majority")
Most of the info is from "LENIN" by David Shub, a former communist revolutionary who worked with lenin.
My ideal human being is someone who lives amoungst the "assimilation" of socity without being contamited by it, posessing a style of his/her own."
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EVERYTHING is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.
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What if God came to you and said, "I command you to be happy for the rest of your life?"
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All religions come from cultures, It is only natural that I shoud take the religion of the region as my own.
i like the communist ideals.. but i'd never vote for a communist party. though perhaps i'd be a communist politician. i make no sense!
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
I dont think that the point of the book was "communists bad!" I think that it was more about absolute power. When the animals first siezed the farm, everything ran smoothly and it was all good. But when the pigs started abuseing instead of using the power that they siezed, things got all flubbered up.
...Also baby duck hat would be good for parties.
i know it's not that communism is bad, it's that it probably doesn't or can't work as a result of corruption of power. did anyone see a satire they did on 3rd rock from the sun about communism? they took the words 'we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal' and extrapolated them to communism. 'we can commune together!' then they got harry to be communist leader, and modelled him after mao tse-tung. it was hilarious.
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
All men are NOT created equal, whoever made this crazy assumption must be insanely naiveIf this is true everyone would be born with the same amount of money, work exactly the same hours, have exactly the same house... which leads to the loss of the human spirit and the beginning of industrialism.
Its really beautiful how humans are all so differnt.
Check this out
http://www.oklink.net/a/0007/0707/shenghuo/003.htm
Read the section "in the image of the monkey" its quite enjoyable and also profoundly philosophicYou can change the number 003 to change the chapters.
Last edited by =Monkey_King=; 11-09-2003 at 05:53 PM.
My ideal human being is someone who lives amoungst the "assimilation" of socity without being contamited by it, posessing a style of his/her own."
--------------------------------------------
EVERYTHING is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.
---------------------------------------------
What if God came to you and said, "I command you to be happy for the rest of your life?"
----------------------------------------------
All religions come from cultures, It is only natural that I shoud take the religion of the region as my own.
naive.. but it's a nice idea.
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
That we are created equal does not mean that we are all the same. It means that we are of equal value. Nobody is worth more than anybody else, and nobody is worth less than anybody else. Regardless off our differences, we share the basic things in life. No individuals pain or joy can be rated and found more worthy than anybody elses. Nobodys wish is more or less worthy off expressing.Originally posted by =Monkey_King=
All men are NOT created equal, whoever made this crazy assumption must be insanely naive
That does not mean that we are not individuals. To qoute Jung - one mans wine is another mans poison. There is no universal recepy (not sure off the spelling) for living.
"Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know
Through the world we safely go" Blake
maybe we were all born equal. then society changed it.
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
(Mark Twain)
Fayefaye, give reading Das Kapital a try. The works of Karl Marx are still considered the principle literature on communism as a science of economics, whereas Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, &c. were politicians with their own ends in mind.
about all men being created equal....
I don't think the quote is talking about people being the same height, intelligence, weight, personality... etc etc.
The quote was talking about how morally and ethically, all human life must be treated equal... unless that person has lowered his value by his deeds. Just a thought... probably not well thought out.
Told by a fool, signifying nothing.
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