Dear Mom, I put a couple of people in Hell today.

[imthefoolonthehill]

thanks for the reference, shea... I knew it was in there somewhere... but the trouble is, I can't ever remember where it is...

[Shea]

I am absolutely horrible at book, chapter, and verse. But a concordance and a topical Bible always help. (Though I've been recently studying Romans at a Bible study group anyway.)

[AbdoRinbo]

Hey, Shea, prove that God doesn't hate you. Prove that the Bible wasn't just a big joke on all of us.

[Shea]

Ok, perhaps I'm not quick-witted enough to understand what the point of your question was, but no one can prove anything. Like I said before, I'll never be able to force you to agree with me. All I try to do is make people aware. It's up to you how you want to take it. Kind of like the Bible. It's freely there for you, but it's up to you what you want to do with the knowledge found in it.

As far as God hating me, I know you expect me to give you a thousand verses about how much God loves us. If you want me to I will, but I have a feeling that you already know them anyway, and quoting them won't really do much. But why would God hate something that he created? We're not talking about Victor Frankenstien here who passionatly completed an experiment not thinking of the consequences. We're talking about God, who has a plan. He gave us free will for a reason and though a sinner is condemned because they choose to sin, it doesn't mean that God did not love them. God is the first example of "Tough Love."

[imthefoolonthehill]

Abdo Rinbo.

I want you to prove that Napolean existed.

[AbdoRinbo]

He didn't.

[Lothwen]

AbdoRinbo
You are quiet close to my theory, that our world, reality, past and future don't exist. We are part of time-dust, and we only think that we are real. We have power to change relity like in "Matrix", but we should believe in it and have enough power

[AbdoRinbo]

Interesting, Lothwen. Could you go into more detail about your theory? It has me piqued.

imthefoolonthehill: Asking me to prove whether Napolean 'existed' or not is essentially the same as asking me to prove whether or not he was 'human'. What does it really mean to be human, and--likewise--to exist? Did Pluto exist to the ancient Chinese?! (I just wanted to throw that in there, becuz I like saying 'ancient Chinese!'--especially in a high-pitched squeal.) Of course, now Pluto exists and always has, but I think the question concerning the essence of existence is a dead-end.

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A dead-end, my friend.

[Lothwen]

AbdoRinbo --> I'm glad, that someoen want to hear my theory

Since I've thought it up, I've changed it severat times, but main idea was, that nothing exists except vacuum and somthing that I've named time-dust, little molecules which may create inside them little worlds. They are usually conected, and that's why we may meet other people. This worlds break up, and come into past in every second of human life. We think, that we have past, that yesterday something happend, because "the memory" about it, is delivered from one molecule to another. We are like imaginations of this time-dust.
But, it is possible to have active influence of our worlds. We should hardly belive, that it's not real. What's more, when we will feel, that our reality does not exist, and that we are only part of dream, we may interfere in tissue of it, and introduce exchanges.

I think, that is all about my theory, I know that it is inaccurate, has many mistakes, and distorions. If you like it you may finish up .

[AbdoRinbo]

'I think I'm in Hell, therefore I am.' -- Arthur Rimbaud

[Munro]

The universe as we know it was created 10 minutes ago. Prove me otherwise.

Time just froze for our equivalent of a million years, but we don't know because we weren't concious of the halt, and so we continue with our lives as if nothing happened.

There, it happened again, just when you finished that sentence. And now this sentence.

In fact, no one else is real. I am the Messiah, or the world was created for me, and things only happen in my view and my peripheral view. People only move when I am in a ten kilometre radius of them. You are all robots here to entertain me, giving me things to think about. How am I supposed to know otherwise? How do I know the answer isn't programmed into you, and right now the planner of this life hoax are ****ting themselves now I'm getting wise on their plan?

Life, for me, is some giant, horrible conspiracy - am I right? Nihilism is scary but interesting to consider (this is nihilism,right?).

*watches another few thousand years go by*

[AbdoRinbo]

Munro raised an interesting point that I would like to touch on.

You've all heard of Zeno of Elea's paradox, 'Achilles and the Tortoise', right? Well, just to be certain, I'll demonstrate it for you:

Achilles and the Tortoise decide to race each other and, the Tortoise being much slower, is given a head start of one foot. When the race begins, Achilles sets off and catches up to the point where the Tortoise was--that is, one foot ahead of him--in exactly one second. Achilles has already caught up to the Tortoise. But wait, in the one second period the Tortoise managed to move half a foot (half the speed Achilles is moving at: one foot per second) ahead of him. No big deal, Achilles can catch up to the Tortoise in half a second, but in that half a second the Tortoise has moved a quarter foot ahead of where he was half a second ago. Achilles tries to catch up to where the Tortoise was, he gets there in a quarter of a second, but the Tortoise will always be one tiny step ahead of him.

If you break the race down, it looks like a stream of fractions that dissect themselves into halves forever: 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, &c. Even if Achilles is the faster runner, he will never catch up. Will the race go on forever? Not if you are willing to add an infinite number of fractions together. Look at it this way: 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 . . . is like adding 1 + 1, because 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 . . . has a limit, and that limit is the number one. It can't get any higher than that. We know the direction where it is headed. Achilles will beat the Tortoise in two seconds, it just takes him an infinite number of mathematical steps to do it.

Now, that same holds true for calculating time. How much time goes into a second? Well, we could say that two halves of a second go into a second. But, likewise, how much time goes into a half of a second? Two quarters. And into a quarter? Two eighths. . . . and off into infinity and beyond. Just as we know that 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 . . . has a limit of one, 1/2 - 1/4 - 1/8 - 1/16 - 1/32 . . . has a limit of zero. Therefore, a second is composed of an infinite number of zeros (which defies all logic). This makes perfect sense, though, because 0/0 (a fraction that has been branded mathematical heresy) can equal whatever number we choose. The difference between 0/0 and 0/1 is that 0/1 = 0, but 0/0 equals any and every number all at once. So, it follows that one second, which is composed of an infinitely large number of zero moments in time, is equal to an hour, a day, a week, a year, the birth and death of star, eternity, whatever . . . if you refuse to accept 0/0, then you concede to Zeno's paradox and reject the idea that motion and time are possible.

Thank you, Munro. I had forgotten all about that until you brought it up.

[Chardata]

ok...well, for most of this i'm confused but what i gathered for the most part...this is my OPINION!!!! and responce....ie: more OPINION!!!!

lost civilization:
God/Jesus gave us a choice. He gives each human upon this earth the same choice. Whether a missionary gets to that 'lost' civilization doesn't matter b/c we all have the same chance. If God really wants to reach someone with his truth...don't you think He will do it? He is God anyway! He has the power to do whatever he wants...if he wants to reach out to the lost amizon warrior he can...how...we may never know. Think about it before you chew me out.

holidays:
CHRISTmas...think about it. Now don't start sputtering yet. It was created to worship the birth of Christ but our society has painted a fat guy in an overly red jumpsuit who loves flying with animals who grow bones out of thier heads. That is not what Christmas was created for. Is worshiping Christ in celebration of a savior's birth so bad...I don't think i'm loosing a dimond in my heavenly crown over it. Easter: it is the same with Christmas...easter isn't a bunny jumping around 'pretending' to lay colored eggs...it it a celebration of a risen Lord. That is when He proved He was Savior. Our society agian perversed that aspect of a wonderful holiday. I don't think firy bolts from the sky will land on my head b/c of me worshiping/celebrating these holidays. Haloween: now that is a different thing. Origonally, All Hallow's Eve...is a celebration of the dead. Supposedly harmless...but cults have perversed this holiday too. Now this holiday is not safe and i think it is not a holiday a Christian should take part in.

These are my opinions...don't butcher me b/c of them. Take them or leave them...you will probally leave them...i'm cool with that! TTYL!

[Shea]

I'll reply with Chardata because I got rather lost with the rest of the posts.

I wanted to add something about the lost civilizations. Just because the written facts are given to us by those organizations, dosen't neccessarily mean that they are accurate. For example; when the missionaries go out, they convert some people. They then report to the organization that sent them out. But those converted people, taking the example from those that taught them go out on their own missionary journey. But they don't have an organization to report to. Therefore the Bible is spread whether we know of it or not.

About religious holidays, my point didn't lie in the jolly elf or the bunny, my point was whether or not it is scripturally accurate to celebrate these holidays as religious doctrine. The elf and bunny are perfectly harmless and fine on their own, but to incorporate them into religious doctrine is not scriptural. We should be meditating on Christ continually, not just on certain days of the year.

I have more to say on this, but now I have to go.

[Shea]

Sorry, look for the remainder of my reply tommorrow because what I wanted to say will take time to cite and I don't have time today.