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Thread: Sons and Lovers

  1. #1
    wendy
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    I read Sons and Lovers as the book I had to assess as the graduating paper. I love it from the first few pages.<br> It is suble and delicate. The world Lawrence portrayed is very different from the present, yet I can understand and have commmo feeling as him,probably. <br> He displayed the life of Paul and his freinds in its truest forms it even hurts me. and I feel sad about Paul's struggle and escape from life,but constantly failed.<br> Life is, truely, a long journey, and paul had just expirenced the early part of it. The better life is yet to come.

  2. #2
    C Bainbridge
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    Sons and Lovers

    A wonderful read. It has to be deeply understood to appreciate all that is there. I have lived in this area that Lawrence writes about and can testify that he has captured the harshness of the lives of the people there as well as well as their subtle humour and sensitvity. Not just a story about a mothers control and jealousy it is deeper than that. I lived in Eastwood over thirty years ago and would feel that not much has changed since the days when Lawrence was there,

  3. #3
    Katie
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    Sons and Lovers

    At the beginning, I had to push myself to continue reading because, at first, I didn't see any real storyline or flahes of action and excitement. The truth is that there is plenty of the former, but little of the latter two. The real genius of the novel is in its subtlety and vivid description. Never before have I read a book that focuses so expertly on a young mans emotions and true feelings. His love for his mother is plain and, in a way, quite sad. He can never truly be himself as long as she is alive. And yet, even in death, she has an almightly hold over him. His very decision to live is based upon his need to carry on her life and legacy. <br>

  4. #4
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Pensive, So glad that helped with your understanding. How are you liking the book S&L's? It took me years to go back and read it, and I truly loved it. You know that "Sons and Lovers" is basically biographical, right? Lawrence later did say that he exaggerated the father (his father). The woman at the Hagg's Farm - Miriam is Jessie in real life. His brothers and sister were pretty realistically depicted and so was his mother. It is fascinating, is it not? Also Jessie's siblings and her parents were realisticly depicted. He loved going to that farm. Often, in preceeding novels and stories, Lawrence got into a lot of hot water with friends/aquaintances by writing about them vividly. He would exaggerate some, but when they recognised they had been the inspiration for his character, they dropped him as a friend. Not too many people could take the joke, right?
    If you want to learn more about Lawrence check out the Nottingham University site - his college. They have a whole section dedicated to L. It is fabulous and shows many photos and even pictures of his orginal manuscripts written in his florid handwriting.
    Last edited by Janine; 05-29-2007 at 04:46 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  5. #5
    Metamorphosing Pensive's Avatar
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    Spoiler!

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Pensive, So glad that helped with your understanding. How are you liking the book S&L's?
    I have completed 'Sons' part yet, and I found it quite nice to read. As a story, it has been fun to read but I felt bad when William died.

    What I liked about it was the simple way of writing, and the flow in the writing. It goes smooth, just like a story. I would form an opinion about the whole book after having read the 'Lovers' part now!
    I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew.

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensive View Post
    Spoiler!



    I have completed 'Sons' part yet, and I found it quite nice to read. As a story, it has been fun to read but I felt bad when William died.

    What I liked about it was the simple way of writing, and the flow in the writing. It goes smooth, just like a story. I would form an opinion about the whole book after having read the 'Lovers' part now!
    Spoiler, too!

    Pensive, so glad you are enjoying it. Yes, doesn't Lawrence's writing go smoothly and I always notice a lovely flow to his prose. I feel a poetry in it, as well. L was very perceptive and sensitive to the world about him, and the people who occuppied that world. I think you will enjoy the 'Lovers' part very much. Gee, I did not think about it in split terms. I must review my book - are their two sections actually with the headings of "Sons" and "Lovers" ? In reading the second half, keep in mind that Miriam was Lawrence's very real woman friend/girlfriend, Jessie. Others in the book are also 'based' on very real people.
    Yes, I thought the death of William very sad and very tragic. Indeed, more so now, that I know this was the true fate of Lawrence's brother. Lawrence was the youngest child in the family. The rest of the book becomes even more captivating. Enjoy!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  7. #7
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Spoiler, too!

    Pensive, so glad you are enjoying it. Yes, doesn't Lawrence's writing go smoothly and I always notice a lovely flow to his prose. I feel a poetry in it, as well. L was very perceptive and sensitive to the world about him, and the people who occuppied that world. I think you will enjoy the 'Lovers' part very much. Gee, I did not think about it in split terms. I must review my book - are their two sections actually with the headings of "Sons" and "Lovers" ? In reading the second half, keep in mind that Miriam was Lawrence's very real woman friend/girlfriend, Jessie. Others in the book are also 'based' on very real people.
    Yes, I thought the death of William very sad and very tragic. Indeed, more so now, that I know this was the true fate of Lawrence's brother. Lawrence was the youngest child in the family. The rest of the book becomes even more captivating. Enjoy!
    Janine, if I'm not mistaken, Lawrence had a younger sister, so Bert (David Herbert) would not be the youngest child.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Metamorphosing Pensive's Avatar
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    Spoiler!

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Spoiler, too!

    Pensive, so glad you are enjoying it. Yes, doesn't Lawrence's writing go smoothly and I always notice a lovely flow to his prose. I feel a poetry in it, as well. L was very perceptive and sensitive to the world about him, and the people who occuppied that world. I think you will enjoy the 'Lovers' part very much. Gee, I did not think about it in split terms. I must review my book - are their two sections actually with the headings of "Sons" and "Lovers" ? In reading the second half, keep in mind that Miriam was Lawrence's very real woman friend/girlfriend, Jessie. Others in the book are also 'based' on very real people.
    Yes, I thought the death of William very sad and very tragic. Indeed, more so now, that I know this was the true fate of Lawrence's brother. Lawrence was the youngest child in the family. The rest of the book becomes even more captivating. Enjoy!
    Thanks! Actually I have completed the first part, so I named it 'Sons' part. Now, when I would complete complete the second part, I would have completed 'Sons and Lovers'!

    Hey, so Lawrence is not the book character Paul (the third child)? I thought D.H. Lawrence was Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil
    Janine, if I'm not mistaken, Lawrence had a younger sister, so Bert (David Herbert) would not be the youngest child.
    But if Sons and Lovers is auto-biographical, it can't be so. The eldest was a boy (the one who died), but the second was a girl, the third one a boy and the youngest was also a boy. So Lawrence is supposed to have an elder sister instead of a younger sister.
    I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew.

  9. #9
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Janine, if I'm not mistaken, Lawrence had a younger sister, so Bert (David Herbert) would not be the youngest child.
    Virgil and Pensive, and everyone else, I stand corrected. Lawrence was the 4th child of Lydia and Arthur Lawrence; the family picture I have, in one of my biography books, makes it look like Bert is younger than Emily. It is Emily that is the youngest, right, Virgil? Bert was the youngest of the three boys. He certainly was the weakest child, this I am sure of; he nearly died at birth and was a very sickly baby. He looks healthy enough in photos, as a young boy, but he was supposidly always coming down with something.
    The names of his brothers and sisters in "Son and Lovers" were changed somewhat, I believe. I would have to do more research because my feeble brain never retains these details. It has been awhile since I read Sons and Lovers - I need to re-read that one, too. Also, changed are the names of the people at Haggs farm - forget the name of Jessie's parent's farm, too - help Pensive! - my brain must be asleep tonight . That book of mine is missing, too. You would after reading 3 biographies, I would have remembered L was the not the youngest, but second youngest to his little sister. In the photo I have they look to be close in age.
    I have been on a frantic search for one of my Lawrence biography books; don't ever clean up your piles of books; it is a sure way to loose them! There is a big empty space on my bookshelf and I am wondering if the ghost of Lawrence came to claim it... *no, Janine, this is the D.H.Lawrence book of the month, and not Owen Meany!*

    Pensive, Yes, Paul's character was based on Lawrence, young Bert, as he was then called. Only difference in the book Paul is depicted as an artist and Bert was a writer, but actually Bert did love art and painted when young and off and on in his adult life. Lawence just has Paul aspiring to follow art in S&L, not writing. Anybody dispute this? Remember the charactes are "based" on real people, like when they say a film is "based on a true story". The number of sisters and brothers may vary in the book and the sequence of ages, as well. The book is based on Lawrence's life not a replica. If you read my later post - I am revising this one, I say that Virgil is correct - Lawrence is the 4th child born and he had a younger sister. I provided a timeline on the births in a later post, after I researched it.
    Last edited by Janine; 06-02-2007 at 02:14 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  10. #10
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    One more correction Janine. I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you. I thought Emily was the older sister and Ada was the younger. I'm off to start Women In Love tonight.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    One more correction Janine. I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you. I thought Emily was the older sister and Ada was the younger. I'm off to start Women In Love tonight.
    Virgil, From the picture, you could not quite tell from the names below; that is why I was asking you. Yeah, right you are picking on me NO, just kidding; I'm not that sensitive. I was embarrassed I did not know which kid was older and thought Bert the youngest though. I tend to forget little details like that. I always forget birthday dates in my family - ask them the will tell you.
    I just found this timeline in my Cambridge biography that I have not yet read:

    December 1875 - Artur John Lawrence marries Lydia Beardsall, Sneinton, Nottingham

    September 1876 - George Arthur Lawrence born, Brinsley

    July 1878 - William Ernest Lawrence born, New Cross

    March 1882 - Emily Una Lawrence born, New Cross

    September 1885 - David Herbert Lawrence born, Eastwood

    June 1887 - Lettice Ada Lawrence born, Eastwood

    Virgil, Hope I copied that right. Well, that straightens that out once and for all!
    This way too you can see the difference's in ages between the 5 children.
    Now if you put me on the project I will try to list who represents which person depicted in "Sons and Lovers" - but actually we should get onto WIL.
    Last edited by Janine; 06-02-2007 at 12:38 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  12. #12
    Metamorphosing Pensive's Avatar
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    Thanks Janine for all this information! It's very much appreciated.
    I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew.

  13. #13
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensive View Post
    Thanks Janine for all this information! It's very much appreciated.
    Hi Pensive, your welcome. I just hope I have the dates right. I was copying them out of a book and I have bifocals and don't wear them up close - either way can't see details well in books when trying to type. I did check it over once. Had it wrong first time and had to correct so think now it is right. Interesting to note the differences in the children's ages. First two and last two kids - 2 yrs appart. If I find out the names of the children as related to the S&L characters I will type that up or copy for you. Shame we are not discussing S&L, since I would love talking about that book with you. But I did vote for WIL. Will you be reading it, too? You will enjoy it very much I think.

    You are so funny dividing up the book into "Sons" and then "Lovers". Is it Chapter 7, that starts with "Lad-and-Girl Love", part 2 of the book you call "Lovers"? Well, that is fitting. In my book version, it does not head that second section that way....so you made it up, right? You will enjoy this second part very much. Some fine writing there.

    Pensive, have you finished the book yet?
    Last edited by Janine; 06-05-2007 at 11:52 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  14. #14
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    At the beginning, I had to push myself to continue reading because, at first, I didn't see any real storyline or flahes of action and excitement. The truth is that there is plenty of the former, but little of the latter two. The real genius of the novel is in its subtlety and vivid description. Never before have I read a book that focuses so expertly on a young mans emotions and true feelings. His love for his mother is plain and, in a way, quite sad. He can never truly be himself as long as she is alive. And yet, even in death, she has an almightly hold over him. His very decision to live is based upon his need to carry on her life and legacy. <br>
    Hi Katie, nice to meet you. I am a huge Lawrence enthusiast, and in fact have now read 3 full biographies and most of his novels, stories. Oddly enough, when I first tried to read "Sons and Lovers" in my 20's, over 30 yrs ago, I could not get into it. I recently went back and read it and loved every word. I think if you enjoyed this novel you may want to consider reading "Women in Love" which is our monthly book read for June. If you put it into search you will locate it. Actually just put 'Lawrence' into search and it will list all the Lawrence threads. We also have currently running a Lawrence Short Story thread, which has proved to be very interesting. We are trying to choose stories that are available here on Lit Net.

    As you pointed out about Lawrence's vivid descriptions - in your words
    "Never before have I read a book that focuses so expertly on a young man's emotions and true feelings." This is absolutely the magic of reading Lawrence's work. I felt the same way the first book I read of his - which was "Women in Love". Not only does he show us the inner workings of the mind in his characters, but the intricate/complex relationships between these characters. His characters are portrayed multi-layered and fully fleshed-out, making them absolutely intimate and real to the reader. The current novel we are reading and discussing, "Women in Love", is expressly indicative of this style of writing and of the characters being highly developed.

    In "Sons and Lovers" Paul's mother is such an key part of Paul's life; the way you worded it is just perfect. Do you know that the novel is mostly autobiographical? Paul is actually a stand-in for Lawrence himself. His father is exaggerated in the book, Lawrence later in life admitted this; he felt badly about it. His mother is mostly realistic, though and, although he had an eternal and deep love for his mother, he also felt her controlling ways and influence in his life profoundly.

    Katie, If you want to discuss this book further please let me know. It has been a few years since I read it, but I am sure it will come back to me when we speak of specific scenes and characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by C Bainbridge View Post
    A wonderful read. It has to be deeply understood to appreciate all that is there. I have lived in this area that Lawrence writes about and can testify that he has captured the harshness of the lives of the people there as well as well as their subtle humour and sensitvity. Not just a story about a mothers control and jealousy it is deeper than that. I lived in Eastwood over thirty years ago and would feel that not much has changed since the days when Lawrence was there,
    Hello, C Bainbridge, Nice to meet you. I am a avid Lawrence enthusiast. I adore the man's writing! I have read 3 full biographies and most of his novels and stories and poetry. I am totally fascinated to find someone on Lit Net that lived in Lawrence country.

    Your words about "Sons and Lovers" are totally accurate, especially your second sentence, and yes, the book is a lot more than "a mother's control and jealousy"; it does go a lot deeper than that. Currently, there are other Lawrence threads, one called Lawrence Short Stories and the June Monthly discussion is "Women in Love", if you care to join in either one or both. So far the discussions are going quite well.

    I came into this thread, since I am looking for a newly formed thread called "Sons and Lovers" - so far I have found about 4 or 5 with the same heading - strange. I need to contact a moderator to point this out and maybe all the threads can be consolidated into one coherent discussion, what do you think?

    C Bainbridge, I hope to see you around and on some of the other Lawrence threads. I am sure, having lived in Lawrence country, you could add much to the discussions. I know I would be fascinated to hear of the areas DHL grew up and wrote about.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  15. #15
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Janine, I think Katie and Bainbridge posted over two years ago and are not coming back.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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