nearing the end of chapter 4, the main part of which seems to be that someone's been arrested for the murder, and raskol has to sit and listen to the account. it'll be interesting to see if he experiences some guilt, and at the same time, what happens if the accused painter progresses towards a conviction, or worse.
No doubt about that, bounty. I thought I could tough it out, but I had to resort to jotting down a simple character map to keep track of everybody. A lot of the names are similar and it doesn’t help that the Russians like to use pet names or attach familiar suffixes to names. At any rate I realized I had to do this when Raskol meets Zametov in a bar and goes into a discussion of the crime, basically telling him how he did it. The whole time I’m thinking he’s talking to Zossimov the doctor and I’m thinking — hmm, the doctor must be an amateur crime sleuth. But it turns out Zametov is a clerk at the police station.Originally Posted by bounty
Uhhhh...
~ Zametov & Zossimov ~
Confession: I also confused the two of them. Re-read it for clarification and see that Zossimov claims that Zametov is corrupt and takes bribes. Rascal seems to take that to mean that he is an elitist of some kind. Just the same he talks to the bureaucrat almost as if he had committed the crime or was at the crime scene. He resents Zametov's analyses that the crime was committed by an amateur criminal. In reply he tells Rascal, "you are a mad man". How true!
Rascal leaves the tavern only to be immediately confront by Razumihkin who asks why he was in the tavern. Thereupon Ras goes into a highly emotional outburst that he wants to be left alone. He continues to walk where he sees a suicidal woman about to jump off a bridge. It appears as if he had contemplated doing the same but changed his mind.
Then he goes to the crime scene where he finds the place has been changed and talks as if he will confess to everything that happened.
Yeah, Ras is a mess. He had been sent money by his mom. New clothes were bought by his pal Razumihkin which he now uses to walk the street. He gave away some of his money to beggars perhaps because he was seeking some form of redemption. His mind is filled with guilt and conflict as to whether he should confess to the crime. What a sicko!
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Hah! It’s good to know I’m not alone in keeping the names straight.
It does seem pridefulness is one of Raskol’s prime movers early on. He gets highly upset whenever anybody posits the murders were an amateur job. And in some ways his intelligence is well above average, but in others he’s a total lug nut. He seems remorseful at times and impenitent at others. He’s all over the map. Dostoevsky is good at exploring all the emotions and psychological states a murderer can go through. I’m sure he spent time with murderers while he was incarcerated.
From a story standpoint I keep thinking how once a murder is comitted, everything changes. Things will never again be the same. Meeting old friends, having a drink or a good meal, mom and sis showing up for a visit, or even stopping for a moment to enjoy the singing of a street performer isn’t the simple pleasure it could be. Raskol will never be able to go back and simply be a poor university student with a future. It’s like the old joke:
Q - What’s the difference between a lightbulb and a pregnant woman?
A - You can unscrew a lightbulb.
Uhhhh...
in the past ive considered taking notes about the characters just to keep them straight, this would have indeed been a good book for that.
im a little behind where you are poppin, but early on in part II chapter 6 I thought there was something worth focusing on:
the timing, the context, and what follows, make it seem like its related to the presence of all these people busy-bodying themselves into his life but to your point above Sancho, I think that normal life is starting to weigh heavily on him, and the above section kinda shows that....he had one thought only "that all this must be ended to-day, once for all, immediately; that he would not go on living like that." how, with what to make an end? he had not an idea about it, he did not even want to think of it. he drove away thought; thought tortured him. all he knew, all he felt, was that everything must be changed "one way or another" he repeated with desperate and immovable self-confidence and determination.
its fascinating that he seems to be on the cusp of actually confessing to zametov, and that the latter is faced with the fantastical question of "my goodness what am I really hearing?"
addendum from this morning. I just finished six and it refines the quote above, consistent with what you said poppin about the suicide and the crime scene "come to the police station" utterances. in both cases, Dostoevsky references back to the quote. in the suicide scene he says "to make an end of it all" and in the crime scene scene, he says "it would all soon be over."
Last edited by bounty; 02-09-2024 at 07:27 AM.
... fess up (?)
Raz hassles people at the crime scene, acts strangely, and refuses to divulge why he's bothering them.
{Ch 7}
Rascal had been contemplating whether he should fess up and surrender when he is distracted by a tragedy: Marmeladov is struck by a horse drawn cart and is critically injured. The carriage belonged to an elitist but was unoccupied except for the driver. Was it a suicide attempt? Or was he so drunk that he was terribly inattentive? This is not made clear in the narrative.
Rascal points out that he was "a drunkard." He is so shocked by the incident that he keeps repeating "I'll pay". But for what? Pay for the doctor's attention or for his crimes or for both? Marmeladov is put on a couch and calls for a priest who promptly administers ceremonials given to those about to die. He dies in his daughter Sonia's arms. She had promptly responded when summoned to go to his side appearing in tawdry garments.
Katerina Ivanova is Marmeladov's wife/widow. She is consumptive and spiteful who blames for husband for the family woes because hubby is a drunk and a no count. Rascal gives her 20RR.
We learn more about Ras in this segment: he hates injustice and can, somehow, "rationalize" in his mind the killing of an abusive old wench like the landlady. But he hates it when the poor are abused whether by injustice or by Fate. Polenka (another daughter) speaks to him about prayer. Perhaps it can ultimately lead to redemption and salvation (?). Then he starts to think,
Haven't I lived just now? My life did not end with that old woman ... now for the reign of reason ... Pride and self confidence grew in him ... He was {now} in the best of spirits."
Upon concluding his business in Marmelov's residence, and while renewed in the spirit, he returns to his garret accompanied by Nikodim Fomitch (superintendent cop). There he finds his mom and sister. Again he faints!
Strange how he can think about surrender, then drops it. Faints but is renewed. But faints again. Hates injustice but doesn't take all that long to kill. Has no regard for after life retribution but speaks of prayer with the priest and Polenka. Rascal is a living human dichotomy.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Oh yeah. Maybe even a trichotomy. If I had to give an amateur diagnosis, I’d say he’s got schizoid personality disorder.
I like the structure of this book. I know I’ve said it before, but Crime and Punishment is a pleasure to read. It’s got 6 sections and an epilogue. Each section has 6 or 7 chapters and the chapters are just about the perfect length for me to read in one sitting. At the end of most of the chapters there’s a hook that makes me look forward to my next chance to read.
Several of the chapters have reminded me of popular detective shows or police procedurals. I think Hollywood has been borrowing from Dostoevsky for years.
And then I got to Ch-5 in section 3. Raskol and Razumikhin go police detective Porfiry Petrovich’s place ostensibly to file a claim for Raskol’s property that was being held in hock by the murdered pawn broker. There’s a back and forth between the two and it’s clear Porfiry is questioning Raskol. Porfiry’s style of questioning made me think I was watching an episode of Columbo. Y’all remember that show? Anyway I checked the wiki page for Columbo and there it was:
The character of Columbo was created by the writing team of Richard Levinson and William Link, who said that Columbo was partially inspired by Fyodor Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment character Porfiry Petrovich,[12][13] as well as G. K. Chesterton's humble cleric-detective Father Brown. Other sources claim Columbo's character is also influenced by Inspector Fichet from the French suspense-thriller film Les Diaboliques (1955).[14]
Uhhhh...
quick note to say holy cow Sancho, slow down, im way behind.
Lol! Sancho read the two respectable volumes of D. Quixote in less than a mount.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
Good point, Poppins. I think D. left much of his personal instability to his characters. But the committing of crimes he left wholly to them.
"I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row
Sancho,
The character of Columbo was created by the writing team of Richard Levinson and William Link, who said that Columbo was partially inspired by Fyodor Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment character Porfiry Petrovich,[12][13] as well as G. K. Chesterton's humble cleric-detective Father Brown. Other sources claim Columbo's character is also influenced by Inspector Fichet from the French suspense-thriller film Les Diaboliques (1955).[14]
WOW!!!
Hadn't read or known of that before. Awesome post!
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Ah yes, I’m at a pretty good pause point. I kinda need to digest sections 1-3 anyhow.
Speaking of which, maybe it’s a good time to talk about the multiple personalities of Raskolnikov. I mean we’ve all got different sides to our personalities, but the different sides are not usually in such direct conflict with each other as they are in Raskol.
In the forward of my copy of the book, Richard Pevear touches on this, as well as the derivation of the name:
I gotta say, I’m getting a certain Osama bin Laden energy outta Raskol.Petersburg is not a backdrop for the events Dostoevsky narrates, but a constant participant in them, and a mirror of Raskolnikov's soul. The enigma of the city and the enigma of the hero are one.
This is not to say that Raskolnikov is a neurotic who cannot keep from projecting his inner states upon the world. The truth is that we all see as we feel, or, better, that our vision is always complex, always moral, always spiritual: we “see” beauty and ugliness, we “see” good and evil. The struggle to empty himself of such complexities leads to the terrible splits and estrangements in Raskolnikov. His name comes from the word raskolnik, meaning “schismatic,” one who has split away from the body of the Church; but he is also divided against himself. He is, as the critic Konstantin Mochulsky wrote, “a demon embodied in a humanist.”
As characters go, Porfiry is a much more likable fellow. And the Columbo connection takes me back. My dad and I used to love watching that show, one of the few things we agreed on.
Uhhhh...
enigma of the city and the enigma of the hero
Very good wording, there.
When Rascal tells his sister to reject Luzhin he says because he "won't accept the sacrifice" she is making in marrying that man of money for his sake.
In return Razumihin (the name is spelled differently in some translations) says, "he is raving ... You are not of your mind! Despot!" He then tells the mother and sister what he feels is the source for all the drunkenness, dissipation, and discord among the fold that Rascal is a part of:
"Would you believe they insist on complete absence of individualism and that's just what they relish! Not to be themselves, to be unlike themselves as they can. That's what they regard as the highest point of progress. If only their nonsense were their own ... Through error you come to the truth ... We live on other people's ideals.
"We talk a lot of trash ... {but} we shall talk our way to the truth ... the right path."
Although Razumihin also drinks he is or tries to be reasonable often intervening to break up disputes or to put people at peace. Note how he says that the problem here is how alien influences corrupt the already vulnerable people into conflict and dissipation. Since he mentions that individualism is condemned this shows that he likely means it is the alien ideals of socialism that are corrupting this circle of intellectual friends. However he remains optimistic that these corrupting influences can be overcome.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Dostoevsky doesn’t miss too many opportunities to take a shot at the socialists, or really at any of the “new” ideas coming out of the parlors of St Petersburg.
When Razumikhin called Raskol a despot because he was trying to forbid her to marry the sleaze lawyer, he was a tad drunk and Raskol was still pretty ill. The next day they’re both a bit more in control of their senses, but Raskol is still adamantly opposed to the marriage:
This time, though, Dunya is ready. She evokes the “D” word too:“Listen, Dunya,” he began seriously and dryly, “I must, of course, ask your forgiveness for yesterday, but I consider it my duty to remind you again that I will not renounce my main point. It's either me or Luzhin. I may be vile, but you must not be. One of us is enough. And if you marry Luzhin, I will immediately cease to regard you as my sister.”
Raskol comes back:“It's not true, I'm not lying! . . .” Dunechka cried out, losing all her composure. “I won't marry him unless I'm convinced that he values and appreciates me; I won't marry him unless I'm convinced that I can respect him. Fortunately, I can be convinced of that quite certainly, and even today. And such a marriage is not vile, as you say! And if you were right, and I had really made up my mind to do something vile, isn't it merciless on your part to talk to me that way? Why do you demand a heroism of me that you may not even have in yourself? That is despotism; that is coercion! If I ruin anyone, it will only be myself...I haven't gone and put a knife into anyone yet! ... Why are you looking at me like that? Why did you get so pale? Rodya, what's wrong? Rodya, dear!”
(!?)“Strange,” he said slowly, as if suddenly struck by a new thought, “why am I making such a fuss? Why all this outcry? Go and marry whomever you like!”
My immediate thought was — well, Dunya hasn’t put a knife to anyone, but Rodya has (or an axe anyway). Perhaps he had an epiphany — Who am I to tell her how to live her life? At any rate it was an abrupt about-face, and maybe a little more manic than schizoid. But who am I to say? I ain’t no head doctor.
Raz' is a good character foil to Raskol. He's not simple, but he does seem to be guileless. I'm constantly asking myself why he continues to hang with Raskol.
You-all know I have an annoying propensity for posting tacky tunes from the 70s to express an idea, and here I go again. I yam who I yam. C&P is set in the summer and Raz' is a happy-go-lucky guy, so here's some theme music for Razumikhin:
Summertime, by Mungo Jerry:
https://youtu.be/wvUQcnfwUUM?si=-U_tJftkJHKWUO1h
We love everybody, but we do as we please
When the weather's fine
We go fishin' or go swimmin' in the sea
We're always hap-happy
Life's for livin', yeah, that's our philosophy
A slightly more optimistic tone than was in the Talking Heads tune I posted earlier.
Uhhhh...
Sancho,
Dostoevsky doesn’t miss too many opportunities to take a shot at the socialists, or really at any of the “new” ideas coming out of the parlors of St Petersburg.
Recall my earlier note re Dostoyevsky and anti-Semitism. From my past readings of the Jewish question and socialism, Marx condemned Slavophilism (don't recall why but may have to look it up to know for certainty). Razumihin's condemnation of those opposed to individualism is clearly Dostoyevsky's condemnation of Marxism. And, as I mentioned before, many leaders within Marxist, socialist, anarchist, anti-Tsarist circles were largely led by Jewish reformers. Thus, this is the author's indirect way of attacking Jews for preaching such "subversive" ideas which "corrupt" the populace and "undermine" the social order.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
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