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Thread: Artist Creates Replica of Parthenon from 100,000 Banned Books

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    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Exclamation Artist Creates Replica of Parthenon from 100,000 Banned Books

    Artist Creates Replica of Parthenon from 100,000 Banned Books! On the same site in Germany where Nazis burned 2,000 books.

    https://mymodernmet.com/marta-minuji...Ef5BnTsWbvA_TE
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Angry Dr Seuss Banned in USA

    Also related, liberals are pulling copies of Dr Seuss' books from libraries, bookstores, and publication.
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr...rnd/index.html
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Dr. Seuss is a talented author and artist. Of the books that will no longer be published, the only one I know well is "To Think that I Saw it on Mulberry Street". My grandmother had a copy when I was young. The book explores the attractions of literary creation; as Marco wends his way home from school, he knows his father will ask him what he saw, and he wishes he could wow dad with his fascinating stories. In the end, he decides to tell the truth ("A plain horse and wagon..."). "Mulberry" is also Dr. Seuss's first children's book and should be honored on that basis alone.

    Nonetheless, the book is racist. "A Chinaman who eats with sticks" is depicted as a racist caricature.

    If Wolf wants to maintain that such books should not be outlawed, I agree with him. If, on the other hand, he wants to claim that publishers MUST continue to publish the book; that libraries are honor-bound to shelve it and promote it; or that bookstores MUST continue to sell it, I disagree. Who is Wolf to tell librarians what books they must carry, or parents what books they must buy. or bookstores what books they must sell? How is that any different from the "liberals" telling them what books they should NOT sell?

    Racism is part of our history (and our present). We can't eliminate it by refusing to read "Mulberry Street" to our children. However, it is also sufficiently serious that we should avoid making a joke of it (as Dr. Seuss's "Chinaman" comment and picture clearly do). Sometimes the racism is so embarrassing that it ruins the book for sensitive readers.

    I"m a big fan of movie Musicals. I have about 40 of them saved on my TV, and often fast forward through to my favorite numbers to watch Fred and Ginger dance "Let's Face the Music and Dance", or Fred and Cyd "Dancing in the Dark", or Helen Morgan singing "Bill". The plots are dumb and trite; the comedy unfunny. But just as we listen to songs over and over again, I can watch the great numbers over and over again.

    I recently deleted "Babes on Broadway", which stars Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney, and features such great numbers as "I love New York in June, How about You?" The grand finale is a 20-minute-long black-face number. Busby Berkley directs; Rooney and Garland do their thing. But it's embarrassing. I can't enjoy watching the scene. In a snit, I deleted the whole movie, and I'm glad I did. This does not constitute "censorship" or "movie banning". It simply means that I choose not to watch the movie any more. The publishers of Mulberry Street choose not to publish it; bookstores choose not to sell it; libraries choose not to loan it. Same thing!
    Last edited by Ecurb; 03-08-2021 at 07:58 PM.

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    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    With all due respect to the Ecurb, censorship has gotten out of hand in the USA.

    I read the book ""To Think that I Saw it on Mulberry Street". I thought it was very imaginative, well-written, and I do not recall any racism in the book.

    Of course, we don't want to get into a discussion of current politics, as that is against the rules of this forum. This is unfortunate, because it would be easy for me to point out the hypocrisy of liberals censoring Dr. Seuss for being "racist", while supporting... Oh, but I can't say that. It's against the rules. Too bad.

    But apparently, liberals do not read history books. If they did, then they would know that the political party that they support here in the USA has a racist history far worse than anything in a Dr. Seuss book.

    With politically correct liberals & conservative born-again Christians both promoting censorship here in the USA, all I can say is that it is an environment hostile to the freedom of writers, comedians, artists, etc.

    Of every democracy that I have been to writers, comedians, artists etc. have less freedom here in the USA. And I've been to over 50 countries.

    What's interesting is that Brazil has become more hostile to the freedom of writers, comedians, & artists ever since American missionaries spread their ideas there. Over the course of nearly 30 years being in Brazil on and off, I watched sadly as American evangelical Christianity has had a very negative impact on Brazil, its people, and its culture. Brazil feels a lot less free for artists and writers and comedians today than it did 30 years ago.

    The USA has always been heavy on censorship, as it is a country founded by Puritans.

    How sad that the liberals who once championed the freedom of writers, comedians, & artists are now united with the conservative religious fanatics in promoting censorship.
    Last edited by WolfLarsen; 03-08-2021 at 11:11 PM.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Interesting thread.

    I tried to get my head around this whole concept of censorship, but soon realized the scale and complexity of the subject.

    Like Wolf, I have traveled extensively over the last 30 years, living & working in; Europe, Africa, The Middle East, The Far East & The Caribbean. Luckily, despite a blinkered, sometime repressive environment in places like; Saudi, Iran, China & Vietnam, I have still managed to read what I want, mainly by carrying my own books, or having access to the internet.

    For the indigenes its different. Invariably, any criticism of the regime or established political thinking is suppressed or even punished. But there is still an overlay of control, which if you comply; then you are free to lead a more normal life in day-to-day activities.

    The more lassez-faire countries are much more fun. In Africa, Thailand, Jamaica for example, basic enjoyment of the basics is forefront: conversation, banter, friendship, drink, women, parties. Perhaps the secret lies in taking oneself and society less seriously?

    Historically, censorship is still evolving; dramatically in some instances, in others, encroaching with serpentine stealth.

    Luther, Henry VIII, the laws on heresy, homosexuality, pornography. Middlemarch written by a woman with a male nom de plume, Lady Chatterley's lover used the f word, (rightly so in the historical context of the character being portrayed.) Lolita exploring underage sex, the Nazis burning books they considered anathema, Mao’s Little Red Book as compulsory reading etc.

    There was of course fightback. Mary Whitehouse railed against sexual freedom; even the Lit Net word check will disallow any possible ambiguity in certain words. “Jesus rode his *** into Jerusalem,” is an example.

    There are times actually, when I find admiration in those individuals that have simple unshakable beliefs; whether inherited in childhood or adopted through conviction.

    But there are others like myself, that attempt to deal in realities in our writing; whether controversial or not.

    Wolf regularly raises the concept of cannibalism, with which I have no problem; although we would disagree on the context of its indulgence. Swearing, (or profanities as one of my Texan friends would term it) is a fact of everyday life, if used in the proper manner.

    With regard to book publishing & choice, I’m a great fan of sites like Guttenberg; though if the politically correct got their way, we would have an outcry re books written in colonial times that they would seize upon as being racist or whatever. Outside of that, book seller outlets for commercial reasons will only display what sells. Libraries should take a different approach.

    Politically, there seems to be a diminishing middle ground: well-meaning socialist or liberals, that spend money, but have a poor track record of balancing the books in the general interest; and some conservative right wingers who are quite simply away with the fairies.

    As for comedians and humour, the jury is still out. I was always impressed by the way Lenny Bruce could use what were considered derogatory words / remarks and get the audience to laugh at the black humour implicit in them.

    Exposure I think is everything. The only caveat I would consider would be that it occurs at an age where one can constructively establish one's own values as to what is appreciated or adopted.

    Reality is no big deal, and free choice gives the option to disagree or walk away in most instances.

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    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    I keep thinking of working class mixed-race Brazilians for inspiration in so many ways. Many of them had (notice use of past tense) the kind of laissez-faire attitude that Manichaean mentioned of tolerance, and respecting the rights of others to do almost anything they want. At the same time, many mixed-race Brazilians were horrified at bigotry and racism. I think that's a good combination!

    With the growth of an intense born-again Christianity in Brazil lately, there seems to be less horror about racism, and more horror about sex and drinking. I remember walking to Carnival in Brazil recently, and a group of born-again Christians were protesting Carnival! That would never happen in the Brazil that I used to know, and loved so much.

    Of course, I am oversimplifying Brazil to explain certain changes I've noticed, as sadly American influence continues its evil influence there.

    Perhaps, I was simplifying things a little bit too much in my earlier post. Of course, some liberals are probably horrified by the censorship of Dr. Seuss. Some born-again Christians in both America & Brazil are very tolerant, and are not trying to censor anything. However, the atmosphere of censorship in America seems to be headed for the dark days of the past, with many politically correct liberals & born-again Christian conservatives trying to censor everything.

    Somebody brought up how it is a decision of an individual publisher to publish a book or not. I think this is why we need a publishing cooperative of authors, so we can publish almost everything. Let the readers choose what they want! Plus, there is no reason for books to go out of print anymore, as both print on demand and e-books make it economical to keep books available to the public. And a publishing cooperative of authors could be good for workers too, as all the workers could make union wages with good benefits. There would be no rich CEOs siphoning all the money out.

    I think that a publishing cooperative of authors should publish everything except for white supremacist propaganda.

    I do not feel that Dr. Seuss's books are white supremacist propaganda.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
    My poetry, plays, novels, & other stuff on Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr...or=Wolf Larsen

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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfLarsen View Post
    With all due respect to the Ecurb, censorship has gotten out of hand in the USA.

    .
    The so-called "cancel culture" is concerning, of course. But Wolf's calumnies about the USA are asinine. The First Amendment protects freedom of speech here in the U.S. -- its protection is superior to that of practically any other nation on earth. It is true, of course, that the First Amendment protects those who want to protest against the publishers of racist books or the libraries that promote those books. But "censorship" suggests GOVERNMENT repression of free speech. In most European countries you can be thrown in jail for denying the Holocaust (or any number of other supposed offenses). Not here in the U.S. Whackos, White Supremicists, Flat-Earthers and Holocaust deniers can say or write whatever they want without fear of official reprisal.

    In addition, it's more difficult to prosecute anyone for slander or libel in the U.S. than it is in Europe (I don't know the laws of Brazil very well). Public figures are fair game here (although, of course, the British tabloids have good lawyers).

    I'm repeating myself, but when a publisher decides what books to publish or a library decides what books to shelve, that does NOT constitute "censorship". If Wolf wants to decry the decisions of publishers or libraries -- fine. But to call them "censorship" is to tar the U.S. government with unmerited blame. Government censors were in no way involved.

    Carnival is a Catholic Holiday. That the long-standing emnity between Catholics and Protestants is affecting Brazil is hardly surprising, and probably has little to do with a new repression of human sexuality. Protestants and Catholics have been at odds since Martin Luther. Here in the U.S., Evangelicals despise Catholics, in part due to such theological differences as the authority of the Church and the problem of sainthood (Evangelicals believe that all "born-agains" are equally sainted, a notion that those of us who know some "born-agains" find ridiculous).

    The notion that publishers "censor" is simply an incorrect use of the word. Publishers (probably) make most of their publishing decisions on an economic basis. If a lot of people are threatening a boycott, they may not publish. Similarly, if a book is so bad that nobody will buy it, they will not publish. This is not "censorship".

    Issues surrounding freedom of speech abound. It is probably true that corporate publishers of books, newspapers and magazines are loathe to publish articles that fail to support their particular corporate interests, or corporate interests in general. In my working career, I used to write articles for niche magazines that were basically puff pieces for my company's products (although the products weren't mentioned by name), and the magazines would publish them unedited. I have yet to see a golf magazine that promotes buying the cheapest, un-advertised equipment, a running magazine the disses brand-name sneakers, or a computer magazine that advises second-hand equipment. Such publications are designed to produce sales for companies that advertise with them. But what's the solution? Should the government take control of all publication?

    Another issue surrounding freedom of speech is copyright laws. You can be thrown in jail for "plagiarizing", which is a clear abridgement of freedom of speech. Of course intellectual property laws also support the economic well-being of inventors and writers, but (because the government is involved) they constitute "censorship" more than the Dr. Seuss case does.

    (Of course Wolf is correct that both Ulysses and Lolita were at one time banned in the U.S. because "pornography" was illegal. I don't know the exact history, but I believe they were also censored in the U.K. and other English speaking countries, so at least the U.S. wasn't being MORE repressive than its cohorts.)

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    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    No one is blaming the government - the cancelling is done by private enterprise. That is what makes it so maddening. Led by a PC culture in Europe and North America that is spreading like a bad smell. And it must be said, helped by Academia, Arts, and Entertainment.
    Last edited by tonywalt; 03-09-2021 at 05:53 PM.

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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    I agree -- that's why I object to applying the word "censorship" to what's happening. One problem with the "cancel culture" is that it has romnanticized victimhood. When Oprah sighs and empathizes over Meghan's Royal slights, there is an aura of silliness about the whole thing. Is the rich, feted Princess really a "victim"? Was Diana a victim? I'm sure they both were, in a way, but it's hard to feel they are TOO oppressed.

    In addition, publishers can't publish everything. What should guide their decisions? Sales and economics alone? Artistic value? IN the case of children's literature, mightn't it be reasonable to favor those books which provide acceptable moral lessons? Mulberry Street does provide a good moral lesson about the romance of fantasy and the virtue of telling the truth. It also has racist pictures and themes. Who should make the call?

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    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    So well put Ecurb about the infamous interview by "he Queen" of the USA being romanticized victimhood.

    The couple in question were quite capable, as is their right, to disappear into a US sunset and live their lives privately. But the sheer callousness of the self pity bombs dropped on a family where the grandfather (99) is in hospital, the grandmother (95) trying to do her best whilst playing the black card has shown Megan's real character.

    Left without royal protection? Harry had a substantial legacy from Princess Diane. Pay for it yourself.
    No royal title for Archie? Only by English law when Charles becomes king does he qualify.
    No mental health assistance? Total nonsense. There are designated medical professionals assigned to the Palace. Or Harry could have had her treated privately.

    What I found even more disturbing was the CNN commentary, totally one sided as usual.

    The bulk of the UK population support our Queen who has done a magnificent job & well done Charles in giving it to his son straight.
    Racism exists everywhere, but you deal with it head on. There are millions of black mothers raising kids with no husband & very little money. Are they all *****ing about it, or dealing with it?

    Rant over. Excuse the depth of feelings.
    Last edited by MANICHAEAN; 03-10-2021 at 09:43 AM.

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    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Build a writers publishing cooperative and publish everything that is not white supremacist propaganda! We don't need the publishing conglomerates anymore! Technology has made them obsolete. A writers publishing cooperative would make sure that all literature would be available to future generations of humanity. Why should corporate CEOs, who only think of the bottom line, decide what literature will be available for future generations?

    Let future generations decide which books of the past they want to read, and which books they don't want to read. Due to advancements in technology, books can be kept in circulation for forever, and it costs nothing.

    Also, these publishing conglomerates often pay their employees stingy wages for long hours of work. This is unjust!

    Not all liberals embrace widespread censorship. But many liberals have gone from opposing censorship, to embracing widescale censorship in the form of "cancel culture". While some bigots deserve to be canceled, things are going too far when Dr. Seuss is canceled. The books of Dr. Seuss are not white supremacist propaganda. They might not be perfect. But they are nothing like Mein Kampf.

    Somebody brought up the government. As far as the government goes, I have no faith in this government. I take out my Dick and I urinate all over this government. I could care less which political party is in power.

    Of course, we have to be careful to avoid a political discussion that is not related to literature, as that is against the rules of this forum. I am merely stating I have no illusions in the same government that censored endless books over the years.
    Last edited by WolfLarsen; 03-10-2021 at 09:49 AM.
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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfLarsen View Post
    Build a writers publishing cooperative and publish everything that is not white supremacist propaganda! .
    Even Wolf supports "censorship", apparently. He differs from the "woke" community that rails against "Mulberry Street" only in terms of what books he'd like to see banned (although they probably agree with him about banning white supremacist propaganda). Once you support book banning, Wolf, you are then quibbling about the details.

    Of course the internet (where anyone can publish anything) is rampant with Qannon conspiracy theories, strange notions about stealing elections, and silly fantasies about who murdered Olaf Palme and Jack Kennedy. That's the price we pay for freedom of speech. This freedom applies even to racists, communists, and Christian Scientists.

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