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Thread: Congrats US?

  1. #16
    On the road, but not! Danik 2016's Avatar
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    Apologies accepted, Ecurb! I dont know and it is no concern of mine what your differences with JCamilo are, but the country happens to be the same. I see the country as a kind of large family. Every one has problems and sometimes very serious ones in ones own families. But if the family is derided from the outside, this is seen, as you rightly say, as an insult.

    @Larsen- I am following very closely the the events around the election and change of government in US, specially because of how they may reflect on Brazilian politics. I unfortunatelly cant find anymore that positive CNN article of the 6th that largely expressed my own opinion. As to other aspects of US politics I am in no position to discuss them because I dont know enough about them. To begin with I have a great difficulty of distinguishing Republicans and Democrats. I thought the Republicans were more conservative, but I am not even sure of that.
    #Stay home as much as you can and stay well

  2. #17
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Nevermind all the blah blah blah gobbledygook I said before on this thread.
    And actually, some of my best friends are of Anglo-Saxon Protestant heritage.
    And someone of Anglo-Saxon Protestant heritage saved my hand on the job. My right hand. So I guess workers should be united, regardless of whether they are Anglo-Saxon Protestants or not. I try to forget that we've been fighting the Anglo-Saxon Protestants for thousands of years, and I try to remember that a coworker of Anglo-Saxon Protestant heritage saved my right hand.
    But I'm not perfect.
    Maybe what we need in the United States of America is cannibalism. I mean, things are just too partisan. Sometimes I get tired of all the partisanship and the red state blue state nonsense, and I think to myself, why don't we just eat all of these politicians, Democrat and Republican?
    If we Americans could only be more Brazilian, and since Brazil seems to be only half as racist as the USA, than I think it would be a good thing for us Americans to adopt Brazilian culture. While some of my best friends are of Anglo-Saxon Protestant heritage, I sometimes feel annoyed that here in the United States it seems like the Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture is forced on us, shoved down our throats, so why don't we Americans just become more Brazilian?
    Last edited by WolfLarsen; 01-10-2021 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Forgot my Anatartica bem gelidinha!
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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  3. #18
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    Haha!
    In the words of the late great Hunter S. Thompson: “Get familiar with cannibalism.”

    I’m not the flag-waving type, but seeing the confederate battle flag being paraded through the Capital Building was highly offensive to me. I found myself really wanting to lay my hands on that guy.
    Uhhhh...

  4. #19
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    Haha!
    In the words of the late great Hunter S. Thompson: “Get familiar with cannibalism.”

    I’m not the flag-waving type, but seeing the confederate battle flag being paraded through the Capital Building was highly offensive to me. I found myself really wanting to lay my hands on that guy.
    I agree.
    But there appears to be only one bastard with the Confederate flag. The rest of them didn't have the Confederate flag, or so it appears from the photographs.
    My concern is that the politicians of both political parties will use this incident to come up with some legislation that further erodes our civil liberties.
    I feel that writers should always defend civil liberties.
    And remember, if the iron fist of the police state comes smashing down on the conservatives today, in the future the same laws can be used to repress liberals, leftists, black activists, artists, and writers.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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  5. #20
    On the road, but not! Danik 2016's Avatar
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    I remember seeing that flag during the invasion so googled it just now, to see what exactly it stands for. So here it is if anyone else needs the information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...te_battle_flag

    No more comments the text speaks for itself, though not updated yet to the Capitol invasion.
    #Stay home as much as you can and stay well

  6. #21
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    What I’m saying is it hurt my heart to see that flag in the U.S. Capital Building. I’m no constitutional law expert, but I don’t think that is protected speech under the 1st amendment. That’s the flag of the enemy of the United States being carried by an insurrectionist who was trying to overturn a fair and democratic election. Sashaying the confederate battle flag through the U.S. Capital is akin to spray-painting BANZAI! on the Arizona Memorial.

    That said, anybody who wants to fly that flag over their double-wide can be my guest. If anybody wants to put that sticker on the bumper of their pickup truck, it’s okay by me. I wouldn’t advise them to drive through certain neighborhoods in Detroit though. You see it wasn’t so long ago in Jasper, Texas that a black man was shackled and drug to death behind a pickup truck with that exact sticker on the bumper.
    Uhhhh...

  7. #22
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    What I’m saying is it hurt my heart to see that flag in the U.S. Capital Building. I’m no constitutional law expert, but I don’t think that is protected speech under the 1st amendment. That’s the flag of the enemy of the United States being carried by an insurrectionist who was trying to overturn a fair and democratic election. Sashaying the confederate battle flag through the U.S. Capital is akin to spray-painting BANZAI! on the Arizona Memorial.

    That said, anybody who wants to fly that flag over their double-wide can be my guest. If anybody wants to put that sticker on the bumper of their pickup truck, it’s okay by me. I wouldn’t advise them to drive through certain neighborhoods in Detroit though. You see it wasn’t so long ago in Jasper, Texas that a black man was shackled and drug to death behind a pickup truck with that exact sticker on the bumper.
    Well, flying the Confederate flag is "OK with me" in that I don't think it should be outlawed -- it's protected speech. However, it's not OK by me in the sense that I will think the flag flier is a jerk, a racist, a loser, and someone who (were it not illegal) should be (per Shakespeare) "beaten into a clamorous whinging."

  8. #23
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    I used to fight these Confederate flag guys with my fists. Especially the ones with the northern accents. While I don't think anybody, including Southerners, should fly the Confederate flag, I was never quite sure why some Southerner was flying that flag. But when a northerner flies that Confederate flag, you know the reason!
    Anyway I think my fighting days are over. I need a new body. Give me a new body, and I'll fight those Confederate flag guys again! I've never been in favor of irresponsible violence, but...
    Anyway, I was NEVER in favor of the US government banning the Confederate flag. If the US government bans the Confederate flag today, tomorrow they will ban the flags of everyone on the left, including the flags of black activists, socialists, communists, etc.
    Especially as writers, I think we should be suspicious of governments. Governments always seem to want to censor writers. Somebody is always trying to censor writers.
    Last edited by WolfLarsen; 01-10-2021 at 08:22 PM.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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  9. #24
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    Yeah, its weird how many of those flags you see up in the panhandle of Idaho?!

    I didnt really mean to go down the free-speech rabbit hole here. Our 1st amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution are just a side show to the big show of what happened in D.C. last week. But here we are, so what the hey. By and large I think offensive speech is protected but hate speech is not. Also yelling FIRE in a crowded theater is not protected speech. That may be where the president ran afoul of the bill of rights when he incited the mob to take the Capital.

    As for Confederate Flag Dude, a poetic sentence for him would be to carry that flag alone through one of the aforementioned tough neighborhoods in Detroit.

    Howd you like Big Rock Candy Mountain, Ecurb?
    Uhhhh...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danik 2016 View Post
    Apologies accepted, Ecurb! I dont know and it is no concern of mine what your differences with JCamilo are, but the country happens to be the same. I see the country as a kind of large family. Every one has problems and sometimes very serious ones in ones own families. But if the family is derided from the outside, this is seen, as you rightly say, as an insult.
    His problem is that he does not know Budha legend. Anyways, why do bother when someone talks about other nation and then just come saying that he actually know nothing about the country? The guy just admits he attacked an entire nation based on prejudice, which is basically racist, but is complaning about Trump and Bolsonaro.

    Anyways, lets not be naive. Neither Brazil is half or twice more racist than USA. We have erased from our history the history of racism, we may not have needed a civil war to end slavery (and ending slavery was hardly the one problem), but we created a myth of a racial harmony that prevented us to combat the socio-economic structures that reflected our racism until recently.

    Bolsonaro problem is hardly his corruption. It is his mediocrity. He is a small-minded kind of corrupt and there is a lot of blablabla coming of how South-American countries (and asians, africans) are corrupts, because welll, the whole "We are superior in the north" has to blame the countries that they explore for the problems in the world. But corruption exists to preserve power and control wealth. Where is power and wealth? So, you know who is really very corrupt.

    And it is wishful thinking that USA institutions prevailed. If anything, they have a huge crisis. It is not because Trump was trying to explore the voting system that is a good system. The two parties? The police (lets remember it is state security)? The health authorites? Even the presidency. All those conflicts are in the end about the instability and lack of credibility of the institutions (and this include non-public institutions as well, such Univeristies, Media). Trump expolored it, but his end will not just restore all those institutions just like super-heroes movies with Female or African American protagonists will not be enough.

    In the end, Herman Melville was just amazing. Almost every single of his book works as an allegory of those conflicts. That almost makes Moby Dick the greatest american citzen of all time.
    #foratemer

  11. #26
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sancho View Post


    How’d you like “Big Rock Candy Mountain,” Ecurb?
    I can see why you listed it as a contender for "Great American Novel". Not only is it a great novel, but Bo Mason embodies a certain type of the American Dream (which is also embodied by Donald Trump, and thus appropriate to this thread). He's a con man and a grifter. He wants to head off to the Yukon to prospect for gold. He's full of energy; he's smart; he could become rich through hard work and dilligence. But he doesn't see that as "SUCCESS". Instead, he thinks hustling people asserts his power over them, and confirms his mental and physical superiority.

    Elsa is another archetype: the ideal wife and mother, who is loyal to her husband except when loyalty to her children demands otherwise.

    Apparently the shocking conclusion to Bo's life actually happened to Wallace Stegner's father. He delayed publishing the novel until his father was dead (and presumably changed the ending to reflect the nature of his death).

    JCamilo's theory about "The Happy Prince" is nonsensical. Perhaps he thinks "The Selfish Giant" also represents a Buddhist legend. Those nail holes in the little boy's hands represent The Buddha's stigmata! What bunk!

    If Bolsonaro's problem is his mediocrity, I'd suggest that mediocrity is Trump's saving grace. Think how much trouble he could cause if he were competent enough to get anything done!

  12. #27
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    J Camilo is right about many Brazilians being in denial about racism in their country. And also how this propaganda of no racism has helped give the ruling elites in Brazil a propaganda edge.
    But there is no way that Brazil is as racist as the USA!
    The thing is, the only difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden is that Donald Trump definitely looks more delicious. In fact, Donald Trump looks more delicious than Bolsonaro. And now that many Americans have hunger, I think this is an important factor to consider.
    I think J Camilo, if I understood correctly, is saying that it's not relevant whether a politician is of this race or that race, or that gender or the other, and I believe him to be correct.
    I still believe Brazil to be an infinitely superior country to the USA! In fact, I've only been to if over 50 countries, but every single country I've been to is better than the USA.
    But J Camilo was also correct in pointing out that Brazil has its problems. So maybe the United States of America should look somewhere else for an example to follow.
    Take China for instance. China has industry. It is an industrialized country. I think you could hardly consider the USA to be an industrialized country anymore. So what we should do is follow China's model. I was in China. I could feel that the country was progressing.
    So I think Americans need to be more Chinese.
    But frankly, being Brazilian is a lot more fun. As long as you have something to eat. Maybe while Americans eat Trump Brazilians can eat Bolsanaro. And just to be bipartisan we could eat Joe Biden and Lula too.
    Tenho muitos saudades de Brasil!
    Last edited by WolfLarsen; 01-11-2021 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Esqesi minha caparinha!
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  13. #28
    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    Humans are naturally tribal, hence the above. I accept it. It is time we all accept it. (It's not going away). But yea, it's ugly.
    Last edited by tonywalt; 01-11-2021 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #29
    On the road, but not! Danik 2016's Avatar
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    Hi, JCamilo, I somehow expected you to turn up. I hope you are fine. In fact, Im repentant of having opened this thread. The discussion is getting into deeper waters, than I expected. I was exhilarated that the majority of US Congress voted according to conscience but I dont want to discuss Brazilian issues here.
    #Stay home as much as you can and stay well

  15. #30
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I'll leave Brazil out.
    I think America went wrong back in the recession of 1982. That's when we started to lose so much industry.
    Imagine an "industrialized nation" without industry.
    In the recession of 1982 my father lost his job designing machinery.
    So many other people lost their jobs too. They lost good paying union blue-collar jobs.
    Meanwhile, in 1982, everyone in the Soviet Union had a job. And if you worked you had guaranteed housing, free childcare, free medical care, a decent pension for old age, and free college education for your kids.
    Maybe the USA should be more like the Soviet Union.
    But without the Stalinist hacks.
    The Stalinist hacks stomped all over the freedom of writers and artists.
    Trotsky defended the writers and the artists and their freedom to create. Stalin killed Trotsky with an ice pick.
    When I take the train from Chicago to New York City all I see is one closed down factory after another. What does America produce now? Hamburgers?
    People need decent paying jobs. Without that, America is a declining empire just like Rome. Except America is a declining empire armed with tons of nuclear weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if we all live to see human extinction.
    Every book ever written, every painting ever painted, every sculpture ever sculpted, will all just fade into dust. Along with the human race.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
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